Just a question about intros and endings ... 🥴

[Gunnar Jonny]

Hi folks. 😊

Got a question from a friend who also has Genos, but so far I have not found a reasonable answer other than that he have to wait until the last bar is started. 😁
For example, when you press 'ending 3' and then 'ending 2' while 'ending 3' is running (and vice versa) then all bars in the ending are played before the next ending starts. (This does not apply to ending 1).
But, if you do the same with intro 2 to 3 or 3 to 2, it jumps stright to the next before all of the intro is played.
So far I've not managed to find anything about it in the usermanuals. Anyone out there who knows if this is an option that can be selected in some settings, or is it just the way it is? 🤔

[tyrosman]

hi there you have a thing called Rit if you tap it twice on the ending this will slow it down if this is what you mean

[Gunnar Jonny]

hi there you have a thing called Rit if you tap it twice on the ending this will slow it down if this is what you mean

Thank's for your reply. 👍
No, unfornately it's not that feature he's looking for.

[EileenL]

This is how the style is made and as we often use intro two as a bridge it is designed to fully play and then go back to normal play,

[Gunnar Jonny]

This is how the style is made and as we often use intro two as a bridge it is designed to fully play and then go back to normal play,

Yes, when you let it run befor it automaticly go to the variation (A-B-C-D), but my question was if go from i.e. intro 3 to intro 2, then it breaks as once you tuch the button and dont fullfill the intro 3 before go to intro 2 and vice versa. The ending 2 and 3 does. 🤔

[Toril S]

Could ypu maybe set it up in a registration?

[acparker]

To clarify, lets assume that ending 3 is 8 bars long, as is intro 3.

Native behaviour of the Genos is to finish playing an ending in it's entirety before moving to the next selected button (intro, ABCD, or ending).
But, for an intro, it will move to the new setting on beat one of the next bar, regardless of how many bars are left in the intro.

So for example, you press ending 1 (or anything else) right after starting ending 3, it will play all 8 bars of ending 3 before switching. BUT, if you play intro 3 and then immediately hit something else, it will switch on beat one of bar 2.

I understand it's an annoyance, but I'm afraid I don't know any way to change it.  At least, without editing the endings themselves.  That's above my expertise level.

Adam

[Gunnar Jonny]

I understand it's an annoyance, but I'm afraid I don't know any way to change it.......

Thanks Adam, I can see you understand what I was thinking about, more correctly, my friend is trying to do.
It's a bit strange that the intros don't play the full part , even if press another button, but the the endings does. As Eileen mentioned, intros can be used as bridges as well, so that make it even more strange .... 🤔
Oh well, I will pass the info to the original questionmaker. 👍

[DerekA]

If there are just one or two situations where you want to do this, then I'd suggest taking a copy of the style. Then use style assembly to copy Ending 3 to Intro 3 (one part at a time). You'd need to make sure Intro 3 had the right number of measures set. Then you could press Intro 3 when you wanted to play Ending 3, and since it would be an Intro you could cut it short when you wanted.

[Fred Smith]

Thanks Adam, I can see you understand what I was thinking about, more correctly, my friend is trying to do.
It's a bit strange that the intros don't play the full part , even if press another button, but the the endings does. As Eileen mentioned, intros can be used as bridges as well, so that make it even more strange .... 🤔
Oh well, I will pass the info to the original questionmaker. 👍

I'm not sure why you think it's strange. To me, it's normal and expected behavior. And the fact it's never been brought up before means most people agree.

An ending is an ending. If you don't want an ending, then use a different button. Imagine the confusion you'd cause most players if an ending wasn't an ending.

Cheers,
Fred

[DrakeM]

Your friend perhaps is needing a 2 measure (1 and a half measure) break (maybe)?

I have had to put a 2 measure BREAK into an intro slot in order to come out of the Break at the correct timing for the song.

I have also extended the intro and RESET it to the beginning half way through the intro in order to perform the song "Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer". You can hear the reset being done on the word "Cupid".

https://app.box.com/s/ah4ga1rd44xtjxccuz1v

Your friend is learning the different ways he can use the Style's parts to create things "outside the box", good for him.

Regards
Drake 

[DrakeM]

Fred,

He just wants the Ending to BOUNCE back to one of the other parts of the style as the 3 intros and Mains do. And he just needs to move the ending to an intro slot.

[Fred Smith]

He just wants the Ending to BOUNCE back to one of the other parts of the style as the 3 intros and Mains do. And he just needs to move the ending to an intro slot.

Drake,

If you want an ending to bounce back, you're right.

However, I don't see that request in the original post. All I see is he's curious about the behavior, and whether he understands it correctly. I'm saying he does, and it's the intended behavior of the buttons.

Cheers,
Fred

[Gunnar Jonny]

Looks like it's some misunderstandings by the way I've expressed my questions.

It's not about the endings, the endings is mentioned because they behave as expected. When pushed, it plays the whole part (all measures) to the end, even if push buttons to swap to other variations to continue before it reach the end.
But, my question was about the intros, because they don't behave similiar. When play intro2, and then press intro 3, (or vice versa) intro 2 change to 3 before it has played all measures. It changes at the end of the bar it's playing when you press the button. It do not run all mesures before jump to whatever you've pressed as next such as the endings 2 and 3 does.
So the question was about if anybody know about if that behavior is possible to select someplace in the settings. Have not found anything about it in the manuals, but as many other things, not everything is as easy to find if/when needed.

Thanks to all contributors, sorry if my post did not explain the question perfectly.

[Fred Smith]

Looks like it's some misunderstandings by the way I've expressed my questions.

It's not about the endings, the endings is mentioned because they behave as expected. When pushed, it plays the whole part (all measures) to the end, even if push buttons to swap to other variations to continue before it reach the end.
But, my question was about the intros, because they don't behave similiar. When play intro2, and then press intro 3, (or vice versa) intro 2 change to 3 before it has played all measures. It changes at the end of the bar it's playing when you press the button. It do not run all mesures before jump to whatever you've pressed as next such as the endings 2 and 3 does.
So the question was about if anybody know about if that behavior is possible to select someplace in the settings. Have not found anything about it in the manuals, but as many other things, not everything is as easy to find if/when needed.

Thanks to all contributors, sorry if my post did not explain the question perfectly.

Gunner,

That's the way it is. The buttons are operating as expected, and there's no way to change the behavior.

Cheers,
Fred

[panos]

Hi GJ,
sometimes when we need more than 4 variations on a style we are using the intro buttons, which in other cases we don't use them at all except from intro 1 and ending 1 (we play the intro and the ending of a song as we do with the verses, choruses, bridges etc).

In this case we delete what is written on intro's or we delete the automatic chord progression that they have and either we copy paste another parts in them from te smae or/and other styles or make new from scratch.
We also set the duration of them to 32 bars so we can change back to another variation whenever we feel like.

Apparently intros are working differently than the endings but this way we have two ways to choose on how we want to go back to a main variation.

If intros worked the same way as endings, in this case we would have to remember how many bars each intro lasts before decided to use them as extra variations which would be kind of hard especially when we play by heart and change a variation when something tell us that we just have to change it or just to push a fill in.

Of course in a registration we can have a lot more variations but the left hand it is not always in position to hit them so easily as the Style buttons in fast tempos and quick chord changes.

[mikf]

Gunnar
I think what you are saying is that it seems illogical that intros work differently from endings. But in fact it is perfectly logical because they are quite different, one is intended to be followed by more music, one is not and, obviously the Yamaha programmers have always set it up that way. And as Fred says, in years of using these keyboards we have never heard anyone question that logic before. How else would you want it set up, and why??
Mike

[Amwilburn]

Derek is correct, you could write your own shorter ending to solve this.

But I think your friend is missing the design intent; Intro's 2 and 3 are meant to mirror Ending 2 and 3, so if he wants to bounce ending 2 into ending 3, all he has to do is press *intro 2* and then ending 3 the moment he wants to cut it off. This will produce the effect he's looking for.

Intros *are* designed as section breaks.



Mark

[Gunnar Jonny]

Again I think it's a bit misunderstanding about my question.
Is it logical that the intro pressed jump to next pressed choice before it's played all beats in intro?
If you i.e. start with intro 2, and then press intro 3 before it's at the very last bar, it will cut rest of the intro when it is in end of actually played bar and jump stright to next pressed choice before the first pressed intro is at the end.
If do same thing in endings, it will play all the programmed bars before jump to next pressed choice.

[EileenL]

It may not be logical but that is the way the style is made. I don't see a problem with doing what your friend wants but he must wait until intro two is about to end and then press intro three.

[Gunnar Jonny]

It may not be logical but that is the way the style is made. I don't see a problem with doing what your friend wants but he must wait until intro two is about to end and then press intro three.

Correct, and that is what he (and myself) does.
But in a lot of 3rd party styles (i.e. Doo) they use the intros for all what it's worth also by use of lots of bars for bridges and so, so what he hoped to achieve was not have to be so 'on the alert' and count bars when do some sort of communication with the public.
(Btw, he had a Ketron years ago that this was possible, thats probably why he wondered if it could be done at Genos as well)

Again, thanks to all.
Guess we can close the case and say 'mystery' is solved, no option for make the intros run all bars if press another intro or variation before it's in the last measure. 🎵🎹🎵

[panos]

Hi Jonny,
in that case one thing he could do is to copy-paste(Assembly function) intro 2 to ending 2
and intro 3 copied to ending 3.

This way those parts will act as he wishes for.

I don't know if this can solve his problem or not though because he is used to hitting intro buttons for bridges and not hitting ending buttons.

If it does, make sure that the ending buttons have the same amount of patterns as the intros.

[Gunnar Jonny]

Hi Jonny,
in that case one thing he could do is to copy-paste(Assembly function) intro 2 to ending 2
and intro 3 copied to ending 3.......

Thanks a lot panos,
I'll forward your idea for this possible solution to him. 😊👍

[Joe H]

Often Ending 3 is the same as Intro 3.  Maybe he could press Intro 3 first, then Ending 2 to accomplish his goal.

Joe H

[Gunnar Jonny]

Often Ending 3 is the same as Intro 3.  Maybe he could press Intro 3 first, then Ending 2 to accomplish his goal.

Joe H

Thanks Joe.
Yes, when use the onboard or Yamaha's factory styles it's mostly like that, but if use 3rd party stuff, it's often bridges and solo parts placed at the intros.
So i.e. go from a solo to a bridge if or when those is at in'2 and in'3, it would be very convient if the intros did not cut at end of first bar after press the button for next step, but continue play all bars before the jump. 😊
I thought it maybe was some 'hidden tricks' or settings to achieve this, but it is as it is. I'll bring the replies from this thread to the original questioner. 📝

[Joe H]

GJ,

He could purchase StyleMagic.  With StyleMagic you can easily copy Ending 3 to Intro 1, 2, or 3 with drag and drop in Sections Manager screen and save the style. The demo is free to try, but no SAVE is possible.

Download is here:
https://www.midisoft.pl/en/

Joe H

[Wim NL]

You can easy swap intro with an ending in the free program Mixmaster.
Open the style in Mixmaster.
Open list view
check only filter view Markers and Text(karaoke) and update by first select none and than check only Markers and Text(karaoke)
and the update button.
swap the MBT from text and marker from intro and ending

For example : native = intro A MBT 022.1.000 and ending A MBT 029.1.000
By edit one at the time by Right mouse , Edit a selcted event and change the MBT

Change the marker and text from intro A MBT 022.1.000 into 029.1.000
Change the marker and text from Ending A MBT 029.1.000 into 022.1.000
or
Select both marker and text by holding down and select from Intro A , then RMB Change Tim of selected events
Set Measure 7 shift in Time later
Also the same for the Ending Set Measure 7 shift in Time earlyer

save the style and done