Touch screen issues with the CVP 809

[brian1uk]

I have had a CVP 809 for about two months now and am having some problems getting the touch screen to respond properly with the swiping action.
There is a screen that allows you to have a "session" essentially the piano room with a bass + guitar. You are supposed to be able to choose several different accompaniment "styles" within the session. You get to view the choices by "swiping" horizontally to see additional pages but I find that this doesn't work as seamlessly as it does say on a smartphone. Most of the time it (the screen) doesn't respond and I can only get it to slide horizontally only about 50 % of the time. Is there some magic action (or particular place on the screen where you are supposed to scroll from) with the fingers that will make this gesture more consistent? (Or could it be that I have a defective touch screen even though this is virtually brand new.) Thanks in advance to anyone who knows what this is and has figured out how to overcome it. 

[EileenL]

Have you Calibrated your screen for your use. On Genos we go to Menu Page Two and select Utility Screen settings.

[mikf]

Brian
I have the previous model, the 705, but I think it probably has a similar screen.
When you are in piano room you touch the combo picture of the players, and the left hand section of the screen shows a pop up with multiple style icons from which you select a style. There are a number of style screen layers with different styles identified by the dot at the bottom. If you touch an icon and swipe the screen left or right it goes to the next layer. You have to actually touch a style icon inside the square to do this, not just the general screen or the little arrow at the edge of the screen. At least that is how it works on mine.
BTW, in case you did not notice you can also alter the style on this screen by touching the setting icon (the gear wheel) which then lets you select the instruments in the accompaniment from a picture of the three combo players. And of course  the tempo can also be changed. It's a neat feature.
Mike

[Kenneve]

Hi Guys

I have the CVP805 and the Piano Room function, appears to work exactly as Mikf describes.

I have to admit though, I had not realised there was more than 1 screen of styles available, maybe because I hardly ever use the Piano Room, but yes everything works as it should.
However I don't appear to have the facility to calibrate the screen, unless I'm missing something?

[mikf]

Yes, I went through the same errors, first not even realizing there were multiple screen layers, then thought it was erratic as well, before I noticed that you had to hit an icon exactly.
Mike

[mikf]

I find the downside with the piano room is that although they make it very convenient to select suitable and simplified piano combo accompaniment, you do lose some of the normal style control - like style variations, intros, endings, holding tempo on style change, stop/starting the style. But it is very visual.
Mike 

[mikf]

Another little tip for CVP players, - it has three pedals set up like a grand piano, but the truth is that most people seldom if ever use the middle and left pedal as they are intended. So I keep them set to 'tap tempo' and 'start /stop  accompaniment and get much more use out of them. The tap tempo particularly is great, because that is what we all do naturally when playing, tap our foot to bring in the combo. But it doesn't work in piano room because you have to tap it on the screen, it is another style control function you lose in piano room.
Mike

[mikf]

Brian
BTW, I am sure you will not need to do this, but you can find screen calibrate under..... Utility..... Display/touch screen... Calibrate.  Look on Page 97, reference manual.
Mike

[brian1uk]

Again thank you to everyone who contributed to this. I went back and used the center of the style icon to swipe and it As Mike suggested works pretty well - though not as consistently as the smartphone touch screens do. Nevertheless I can now access all of the styles. Yamaha really ought to point out the necessity of putting your finger inside the style square outline in order to swipe. I was trying to swipe everywhere in the screen, on the edges, in between the icons,  and even tried hitting the little dots thinking that would work but to no avail.

I agree with Mike on the downsides of the piano room- it isn't as useful as I thought it would be. I prefer using the styles.

As to using the middle pedal to stop and start the accompaniment, if you do this, then won't you have to sacrifice the  articulation effects that the middle pedal provides with guitar, sax, clarinet voices?

I have only been a member of this forum for three months and already it has been wonderful. I know that I can come here with my questions and though I may have appeared uninformed, everyone has been really helpful and nonjudgmental.
Thanks guys.

[Kenneve]

I find the downside with the piano room is that although they make it very convenient to select suitable and simplified piano combo accompaniment, you do lose some of the normal style control - like style variations, intros, endings, holding tempo on style change, stop/starting the style. But it is very visual.
Mike

Regarding the variations, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go to Settings (the gear wheel) and then to Section Control. switch On and that gives you 4 on screen buttons A-B-C-D, which are I believe the 4 variations, similar to the normal style control.
But as others have said, as a non pianist, Piano Room is not for me, I need as much help as I can get.

[mikf]

Regarding the variations, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go to Settings (the gear wheel) and then to Section Control. switch On and that gives you 4 on screen buttons A-B-C-D, which are I believe the 4 variations, similar to the normal style control.

Well that's interesting, had my 705 for years and never knew that!
Mike

[Kenneve]

Yes Mike, this is what this forum is all about, I've learnt a lot since joining and it's nice to give a little something back.
I assume this variation function will apply to the CVP605 as well.

[mikf]

The Piano Room is a great concept, but it certainly has some limitations and I think these could be addressed by Yamaha. I might sit down someday and put together some suggestions to make the Piano Room function a bit more usable, because it does have definite upsides. What I like about it is that it lets you play almost anything without a lot of fuss and advance preparation - like making selecting a suitable style, setting up registrations, selecting voices etc. All of that becomes almost instant in Piano Room. For piano players who are used to just sitting down, thinking of a song and immediately playing it, this comes closest to that experience. Everything is right there, and with a few changes it could become an invaluable tool for that kind of player. And it is so attractively visual, takes the touch screen to a different level.
It wouldn't take much to make it a bit more usable in my opinion, and it is so much more simple to interact with it in real time and while playing than the standard arranger interface.   I get it that it will never suit the kind of person who wants to take sound creation to its limits, but as mainly a piano player who just likes some simple accompaniment, I see great potential. At the moment its limitations mean that it has been a bit disappointing and I don't use it much. Simple things like not being able to change styles without the tempo changing, selecting piano layered sounds like piano/strings and being able to select a few additional styles with  voices like a string pad, and not just the simple combo. These would not seem hard to do and would make a big difference to overall usability.
Mike

[brian1uk]

Mike I tried one of your suggestions - assigning the middle pedal to control the start and stop of a style, but then I notice that if I change to a different style or even a different variation within a style, the pedal assignment reverts back to it's original purpose. Is there anyway to assign the middle pedal to switch on and off the accompaniment style and have it remain in this assignment as you move to different styles? Also it appears that the assignment is "forgotten" once you turn off power.

[mikf]

It is best to do this with a set up registration with all of your preferred options like pedal assignment, fingering mod e, split points  and anything else important to you.  Then hit that every time at start up.
And of course you can have a second set up registration if you like with a 'B' set up you sometimes change to. Just don't do too many or then you start getting confused. I use two because although full keyboard is my preferred normal set up, I sometimes like to go to a more conventional arranger set up ie  lh chord, with a split point.
BTW, I assign centre pedal to tap in, the left pedal to start /stop stye. I find that works well, because I always tap in with my right foot. Right pedal is always sustain. So I tap in to start the style, then shuffle my right foot over to the sustain where it stays 
Mike

[brian1uk]

Ok not to labour the point but .  . .
So going back to my original question, after I set the STOP ACMP to "fixed" or "style" (my preferred settings) I notice that upon power down and then back up it reverts back to "disabled " every time. So is the only way to "fix" this to set up the STOP ACMP to what I want it to be and then hit memory (1 through to make it a registration and then as Mike says to hit this button every time I power up? I would have expected Yamaha to have given the user an option to choose a default option for ACMP - i.e. for example, I would like it to power up in fixed each time, but I guess this isn't possible?

[mikf]

Brian
Some of the selections do hold through power down, but not all and this is one of them. I'm sure Yamaha had some reason for this decision.
Having the accompaniment set the way you like it is only one option players may like, there are many choices, and the set up registration is how you can easily customize that. It becomes your personal default start up. And its a pretty simple option. Make it the first button in the default registration bank, and it becomes second nature - power on, hit the button.

Mike

[Fred Smith]

Ok not to labour the point but .  . .
So going back to my original question, after I set the STOP ACMP to "fixed" or "style" (my preferred settings) I notice that upon power down and then back up it reverts back to "disabled " every time. So is the only way to "fix" this to set up the STOP ACMP to what I want it to be and then hit memory (1 through to make it a registration and then as Mike says to hit this button every time I power up? I would have expected Yamaha to have given the user an option to choose a default option for ACMP - i.e. for example, I would like it to power up in fixed each time, but I guess this isn't possible?

This point has been belaboured for years. And the solution is always the same: create a setup registration. You'll be surprised how many things you want to set, and wonder how you did without one so long.

What would be really nice, and solve all the conflicting requests Yamaha gets, is to automatically load a setup registration on startup.

Cheers,
Fred

[Delaware809]

I had this problem too in the Piano Room.  Forget the swiping and turn the big black disc. You can quickly scroll through the available styles.

[overover]

Ok not to labour the point but .  . .
So going back to my original question, after I set the STOP ACMP to "fixed" or "style" (my preferred settings) I notice that upon power down and then back up it reverts back to "disabled " every time. So is the only way to "fix" this to set up the STOP ACMP to what I want it to be and then hit memory (1 through ⁣8⁣) to make it a registration and then as Mike says to hit this button every time I power up? I would have expected Yamaha to have given the user an option to choose a default option for ACMP - i.e. for example, I would like it to power up in fixed each time, but I guess this isn't possible?

Hi Brian,

the CVP-809 Data List (section "Parameter Chart", page 107) says that the parameter "Stop ACMP" is (automaticalliy) saved in the so called "System Setup" and it can be saved also in Registrations (when the "Style" checkmark is ticked).

If you change the "Stop ACMP" setting, please make sure to CLOSE the Style Setting window properly. Only then will the changes be properly saved in System Setup. If, on the other hand, the window remains OPEN in the background, the changes made will be discarded at the next restart.

Note: This setting is always automatically saved in Registrations (if the "Style" check mark is set in the Memory dialog). However, this also means that Registrations can change your current "Stop ACMP" setting if another setting has been saved in it.

I therefore recommend that you also save your preferred settings in one or more Setup Registrations.


Best regards,
Chris

[brian1uk]

Thanks Chris. That is good to know. I just tried it and you are correct - it now stays in "fixed" or "style" mode when I shut down and power up again. I must say that so much of this stuff seems to be discovered by happenstance as opposed to being able to consult the owners' and reference manuals, both of which I find to be not terribly well written overall. This site has proven invaluable for me as I learn the ropes with my new keyboard. I was shocked to find only 11 preloaded songs in the playlist on the CVP 809 - As I recall the old MUSIC FINDER (which seems to have been abandoned by Yamaha) had over 50 preloaded songs. What is the simplest way to get more songs into the playlist? Perhaps there is a flash drive I can purchase with more preloaded songs?

And I have just discovered something else that was happenstance. When I call up a style with the OTS link selected and look at the home screen, the portion of the screen labeled "LEFT" is virtually always greyed out (inactive?) whereas depending on the OTS assignments, "main" and "layer" are sometimes both yellow or just one of them is yellow. Yesterday I started touching the "LEFT" rectangle while playing and notice that when I strike a chord I can get additional rich accompaniments layered on top of the style that is already being played.

This is probably obvious to all of you veteran players out there but I wasn't aware of this feature.
I thought "Left" was only used when you are paying the piano without a style and you want to divide up the keyboard with a split point into a right (Main + Layer) and left. Learning more every day.

Thanks to all of you have contributed to my eduction. 

[Kenneve]

Hi Brian
Regarding the number of songs in the Playlist.
My CVP805 was delivered with a USB stick, which plugs into the slot Under the keyboard.
It contains a total of 593 songs, in 5 folders depending on the music type ie, Country/Blues—Entertainment—Latin/world—Pop/Rock—Standards/Jazz.
You call up Playlist, then the USB stick and they are all listed.
I assume it was a freebie included by my dealer.

[overover]

Thanks Chris. That is good to know. I just tried it and you are correct - it now stays in "fixed" or "style" mode when I shut down and power up again. ...

Thanks for your quick feedback, Brian. I'm glad that I was able to help you with this question!

... I must say that so much of this stuff seems to be discovered by happenstance as opposed to being able to consult the owners' and reference manuals, both of which I find to be not terribly well written overall. ...

I recommend that you always open both manuals on your computer at the same time and use the Search function of your PDF reader program/app (usually "Ctrl + F") to quickly find all relevant text passages for a specific search term in both manuals. (I always work like this myself. ⁣)

It is usually good to open the CVP-809 Data List on the computer at the same time. There you will find important information about every single parameter of the CVP-809, e.g. in the already mentioned section "Parameter Chart". (Altogether there are many hundreds of parameters, but here you can quickly find what you are looking for using the mentioned search function. For example, today I first clicked on the "Parameter List" section in the table of contents for you in the CVP-809 Data List and then looked up with the search function "Stop ACMP" wanted.)

I was shocked to find only 11 preloaded songs in the playlist on the CVP 809 - As I recall the old MUSIC FINDER (which seems to have been abandoned by Yamaha) had over 50 preloaded songs. What is the simplest way to get more songs into the playlist? Perhaps there is a flash drive I can purchase with more preloaded songs? ...

Even with earlier models that still work with Music Finder, only a few sample records were included ex works. The so-called "Music Finder Standard Library" (which then contains around 1000 ... 2000 records depending on the model) always had to be downloaded and installed separately.

Please download the "Bonus Playlist for CVP-809 / 809GP" from the CVP-809 download page, unzip the zip file on your computer and copy the contained folder "CVP-809 Playlist" into the root directory of a USB stick (NOT in a FOLDER) on the stick!). This is also described in the "ReadMe.txt" file, which is contained in the downloaded zip file.
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/clavinova/cvp-809/downloads.html#product-tabs

This Playlist package contains 1236 (!) Registration Bank files (.rgt) in five category folders. In each of these category folders you will find one Playlist file (.tsv) with which you can load the individual Songs (Registration Banks) contained in the folder from a Playlist. (Of course you can also load the included Registrations directly (without using the Playlist function) if you want. ⁣)

... When I call up a style with the OTS link selected and look at the home screen, the portion of the screen labeled "LEFT" is virtually always greyed out (inactive?) whereas depending on the OTS assignments, "main" and "layer" are sometimes both yellow or just one of them is yellow. Yesterday I started touching the "LEFT" rectangle while playing and notice that when I strike a chord I can get additional rich accompaniments layered on top of the style that is already being played.

... I thought "Left" was only used when you are paying the piano without a style and you want to divide up the keyboard with a split point into a right (Main + Layer) and left. ...

Yes, this is the same on all PSR-S, SX, Tyros and CVP models and of course on Genos. You can switch each Keyboard Part on or off separately (on CVP-809 the Parts "Left", "Main" and "Layer"). The current state can be saved in Registrations or in OTS. (If you want to change the OTS of a Preset Style you have to save the Style as a User Style because Preset contents cannot be overwritten.)

With the OTS of the Preset Styles, a Left Voice setting is called up, but usually the Left Part is initially deactivated. This is probably also due to the fact that when using the "AI Fingered" Chord Fingering setting, certain "chords" could be used, which would then sound "wrong" with the Left Voice activated.

Of course, you can switch on the Left Voice at any time if you want. You could also move the left Split Point further to the right if necessary. Thenc you can play the Left Part in the keyboard area between the Style Control area and the main / layer area (i.e. no longer at the same time as the chords for Style Control).

I recommend saving all changes in Registrations, i.e. NOT changing the OTS. Many settings (e.g. Split Points / Fingering) cannot be saved in the OTS. In Registrations, however, (almost) everything can be saved. )


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[mikf]

These keyboards have so many features, some of which many of us will never use, that we usually learn by trying, failing, asking. It's like an iPhone, how many of us have even looked at an iPhone manual? Not many I bet, you just ask someone or get on the internet when stuck. That's what this forum is all about. Someone here has always done it before and can help. Why waste time trying to get all the answers yourself.
Mike

[brian1uk]

Hi Chris

I downloaded the bonus package from the website and have the five folders you mentioned on the Flash drive, but so far am unable to load them. The only styles that I am able to load are those 11 that came preloaded with the unit. I am getting messages that pop up on the display that I do not understand. I think it is because of my lack of familiarity with the new playlist terminology. I really found the old music finder much friendlier. I called the Yamaha number and after approximately one full hour on hold, a kind gentleman said that he would have a tech call me "sometime next week". Needless to say I was disappointed at how difficult it was to get help directly from Yamaha. Clearly this forum is the way to go. Anyway time to get into the manuals and try to figure this out. Thanks for all of the suggestions. They have been immensely helpful. Hopefully I can get those nice additional styles on the playlist loaded so I can use them before the tech calls me next week.

[overover]

... I downloaded the bonus package from the website and have the five folders you mentioned on the Flash drive, but so far am unable to load them. The only styles that I am able to load are those 11 that came preloaded with the unit. ...

Hi Brian,

please read my instructions about installing the Bonus Playlist again. You have to copy the ONE unzipped folder "CVP-809 Playlist" (of course including its subfolders) onto the USB stick.

Please download the "Bonus Playlist for CVP-809 / 809GP" from the CVP-809 download page, unzip the zip file on your computer and copy the contained folder "CVP-809 Playlist" into the ROOT directory of the USB stick (NOT into a FOLDER) on the stick!). This is also described in the "ReadMe.txt" file, which is contained in the downloaded zip file.
>>> https://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/pianos/clavinova/cvp-809/downloads.html#product-tabs

This Playlist package contains 1236 (!) Registration Bank files (.rgt) in five category folders. In each of these category folders you will find one Playlist file (.tsv) with which you can load the individual Songs (Registration Banks) contained in the folder from a Playlist. (Of course you can also load the included Registrations directly (without using the Playlist function) if you want. ⁣)

1) Then call up the Playlist function, touch the Playlist name to call up the Playlist Selection display. Navigate to User > USB > folder "CVP-809 Playlist" and go into one of the Genre subfolders (e.g. "Country&Blues"). Load the corresponding Playlist file from this folder (in this case the file "CVP-809 Playlist Country&Blues"). Now you can call up one of the records of this Playlist. (This will automatically load the corresponding Registration Bank, and the Registration button #1 will be selected automatically.)

2) As mentioned before, you could also load the Registrations directly: Call up the Registration Bank Selection display (e.g. by pressing the REGIST BANK [⁣+] and [-] buttons simultaneously), navigate to one of the Genre subfolders of the "CVP-809 Playlist" folder as mentioned above, call up one of the Registration Banks there and press Registration button #1.


P.S.
All of the above has nothing to do with loading STYLES directly, but the Styles are called up by selecting a Playlist record (in Playlist mode) or alternatively by calling up the relevant Registrations directly (in Registration mode). So, the Style is always called up via the corresponding Registration.


Best regards,
Chris

[Kenneve]

Hi Brian

I think if you follow this blow by blow procedure, it should work.
Assume power On and USB stick in the socket under the keyboard. (although it should work from either socket)

Press Playlist.
Press Title box at the top of the screen.
Press the RH Up arrow until you get to the USB choice.
Press your USB to get CVP 809 Playlist.
Select one of the style types, Jazz or whatever.
Highlight selection (turns orange)
Close screen and return to Playlist.
Title should now be your chosen type.
Select song
Load song (bottom right, orange tick on song)

PLAY SONG !!

Just typed this from a 84 year old memory, my apologies if I've got some of it wrong
Note. the Playlist unzipped folder must be in the root directory of the USB stick

[brian1uk]

To Chris and Kenneve, (and everyone who has made helpful suggestions)

Thank you for the directions. I am away from home until tonight but I will make another attempt when I get back in front of the keyboard and let you know if I am successful. If I get an error message I will post it (a photo perhaps ?) in a later reply as there appears to be a mechanism to upload attachments to our posts.
thanks again,
Brian

[tyros5psr]

thank you for all that interesting clarification

[brian1uk]

Ok so I called up the menu and pushed Playlist and got a window showing the 11 preloaded songs and at the top a rectangular box labeled "SAMPL". I am not sure what the title means. Perhaps it is the label for the file that contains the 11 songs.

Then I hit the disc icon with the downarrow above it. When I do that I get a window with a matrix of pos in two columns. On the top left row I get CVP Playlist latin and world and on the right SAMP which is highlighted in yellow. When I touch the latin title nothing happens. It does not turn yellow and I can't seem to access its contents.
So at this point I am no further forward. I may have already sabotaged the process by pressing something I shouldn't have. And I DO have the single folder on the USB drive at the root level. I can't attache my pictures as they are too large. (500K max permitted). Can anyone tell me why there is a file called SAMP on my USB drive?

I may need to get one on one "tutoring" to make this happen. :-)