Unwanted Bass After Change Of Style

[alanclare]

Eileen

I have met plenty of examples. Had it only been a problem with one style I should have noticed. I wondered if I were doing something wrong, but Norman has verified that the phenomenon exists. It's infuriating when it happens. Download those files in the folder above and hear it for yourself.

Alan

[ckobu]

Hi Alan,

We can process the RHY channel in Drum Setup. Each change adds new Sy*** data that is written to the Style structure. Such is the case with Style X and Style Y. (pic.1 and pic.2)
The problems you have are related to sy*** information. With MIDI XY, the data was not entered in the correct order. The Sy*** string was entered before the drum type information (PRG). That's why Sy*** has no effect and the bass drum (note 35) sounds loud. I moved the LSB in front (pic.3) and now MIDI works well.

Assembly mode has a similar cause of the problem. Namely, Assembly does not transmit Sy*** and that is why the sound is different.
I hope I helped.

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[alanclare]

ckobo

Many thanks for bringing more understanding of what is for me an annoying problem. I wont pretend to understand the technicalities of your contribution, others might. My need is to be able to record a song as a MIDI, make a few simple adjustments, then play the file and record it as audio in the USB Player. If it transpires that "The Sy*** string was entered before the drum type information (PRG). That's why Sy*** has no effect and the bass drum (note 35) sounds loud.", can I use the arranger's Song Creator to make the adjustment that you've described?

Alan

[Normanfernandez]

Thanks ckobu for the MIX Master screen shots
I was about to do it.

But on my last test with two of the Yamaha styles. The Glitch seems to be more than just the CH 10 ( Drum)

other channels get affected too for some reason.

[Normanfernandez]

Alan- you can't edit Sy*** on the keyboard.

[ckobu]

That's right, but the bass drum is the most pronounced, so I cite it as an example.
Sy*** can be edited on the keyboard but it is completely cluttered / unusable.

[alanclare]

Using the Song Creator with my, admittedly trivial, example, if I move the Prog Line to a position before the beat where the change takes place, it works.




Alan

[ckobu]

What you look at are the notes. You need to move Sy***, it's on the tab after, on the right. But don't bother with that because you won't solve the problem that way.

[alanclare]

So, the answer to my original question is that there is no way of realising when I am recording a song as a MIDI, that when I come to listen to the MIDI file it might contain an intrusive drum. Also, I have no tools at my limited disposal to make corrections to the song file. I must start again.

Alan

[mikf]

What is Sy*** data?
How can it be entered in the wrong order?

Mike

[EileenL]

You can certainly edit the Midi file by going into song creator and selecting Edit and track 10.
There you will see all the notes played. Just drop the volume of the offending one or delete it. This is probably the quickest way to solve the problem. Then just record it to Audio Job Done.

[alanclare]

Eileen

You'll have to reduce the volume of every occurrence of the intrusive drum, which in a section can be a considerable number.

Alan

[ckobu]

When we play the keyboard we see the Name Style, tempo, volume ... These parameters are available to us and we can easily change them. However, there is a lot of other information running in the background that is not understandable to most musicians. System Exclusive are one of them.
Google will help you but for general information I suggest this
https://www.recordingblogs.com/wiki/midi-system-exclusive-message
for Yamaha Sy*** you can check this out.
http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/midi_10.htm

The MIDI protocol has its limitations and when a lot of data is run at one time, congestion occurs and errors are possible. In this video, see how much information is triggered with just one click on Register.
https://youtu.be/EmR7WAjjKVI?t=140

[alanclare]

This is a ball game into which I know better than to enter. So I shall not.

Alan

[Normanfernandez]

What is Sy*** data?

A part of the MIDI standard that allows synth manufacturers to define their own specific message formats. Unlike every other message format in the MIDI standard, sy*** messages can be variable in length; they are marked by both a start byte (F0 hex) and an end byte (F7 hex). Text book definition
In simple words for us, it has all the information like DSP Settings and a lot more.

Eileen
Song Creator has its limitations. It is useful but cannot replace a software like Mix Master.

About 2 years ago, I noticed that MIDI reads Reads each midi event in Order.


Say if 10 events are taking place in Bar 1 Beat Tick 1
It will Read which ever event is on the top first, Even though it's on the same Bar Beat Tick.

So Alans method could have some logic.


Why would the Keyboard Record it like this? I don't know.


Also CH 10 ( Drum Channel) Is given the highest Priority in MIDI>

[EileenL]

Hi Alan ,
  I have Just downloaded your file and tried in my Keyboard which is Genos. The second style you are using it is the kick drum you are hearing. The style is designed like this as it is one we use for a Carpenters song called Top of the world where you need this to make the tune sound good. This is also what you hear in the song.
  I suggest you look at what drum kits and voices are being used in styles you want to pair up in songs so you get a better balance in your finished song. The other thing you could do is try replacing with a different Kick drum.
  I have this style so I do know what I am talking about.

[alanclare]

Eileen

You far more knowledgeable and experienced in the ways of Yamaha arrangers than am I. I have never doubted that you know about that which you talk. I have learned much from reading your advice and comments on this forum, and I thank you for it.

Alan

[alanclare]

Norman

"But on my last test with two of the Yamaha styles. The Glitch seems to be more than just the CH 10 ( Drum)"

other channels get affected too for some reason.


Could you give me a link to the files that you used?

Alan