New DGX-670... PSR-E473 Preview?

[SciNote]

It seems that a good part of the specs of the DGX electronic piano series carries over to the PSE-E400 series.  With the DGX-660, the style engine (with 2 variations), the sequencer (6 tracks), and the registration bank (8 banks of 4 buttons) are very similar to the PSR-E463.  With the DGX-670 now having styles with 4 variations and a 16 track sequencer, I wonder how much of this will carry over to the E473?  As for the registrations, the specs on the DGX-670 on Yamaha's website only state that there are 4 buttons -- it does not currently state how many banks are available.

If much of this transfers over, along with at least some of the more advanced sounds and digital effects, the E473 may very well be a significant step forward.  Hopefully, now that we're into the new year, maybe we'll start seeing some information on the E473 soon!

[vbdx66]

Hi Bob,

Nope. 

The DGX670 is essentially a 88 graded-hammer keys PSR SX600 with higher-end piano voices derived from the cheaper Clavinova's.

What the PSR E473 will have is the SuperArticulation Lite! voices from the E373, probably more than its little sibbling. It'll have a couple of new styles and most certainly, of DJ patterns. It'll probably have the same white screen as the E373 as well. The sampling system might be improved. It might get more reg banks (but I doubt it because the E373 didn't, which is disappointing with all its new features - more reg banks would have been handy).

Beyond that, there won't be much more, because otherwise the E473 would overlap too strongly with the PSR SX600, which would be very bad for marketing and sale figures.

Just my 2 cents,

Vinciane.

[SciNote]

I'm not sure I agree that the DGX-670 is that much closer to the PSR-SX600.  Consider the following...

Number of voices:

DGX-670: 630
SX600: 1373 (That might be an error on Yamaha's website, depending on if the XG voices were counted twice, but even if that is the case, then the total voice count is still likely 893)

Number of styles:
DGX-670: 263
SX600: 415

Registration buttons:
DGX-670: 4
SX600: 8

Multi-pads:
DGX-670: None
SX600: Yes, 188 banks of 4

It is with the 16 track sequencer and more extensive reverb/chorus/DSP support that the DGX-670 more closely matches the SX600, but with the features listed above, you can see that the DGX-670 is closer in capability to the PSR-E463 than the SX670 (E463 has 758 voices, 235 styles, 4 registration buttons, and no multi-pads).  And going back to the DGX-660, it is even more so the case, with the 6-track sequencer (albeit with greater memory capacity) and 2-variation styles.

I'm not saying that the DGX's are just 88-key versions of the E-series keyboards, as they have much better piano emulation and polyphony than the E-series (and perhaps the SX, as well), as that is what they are designed for.  They may even have more advanced sound generation chips or algorithms, but I am not sure of that.  But when just looking at the basic capabilities such as number of sounds and styles, as well as the sequencer (on the DGX-660), those categories seem closer to the PSR-E400 series than the PSR-SX600.

Now, I agree that it is unlikely that the PSR-E473 will get a 16 track sequencer, hundreds of DSP options, and maybe not even 4-variation styles.  But seeing as how Casio has been inching closer to these types of specs, I think we may just see a significant move forward for the E473.  Maybe?  I don't know -- We'll see  !

[vbdx66]

Hi Bob,

Don't be fooled by the number of buttons or options available on the control panel. The DGX 670 is a PSR SX600 in disguise. They share the same sound engine and the same effect module. The DGX line has 88 graded-hammer keys and much better piano samples, the PSR SX600 has more sounds and styles, more control knobs etc., but the sound engines are similar. The DGX 670 has even a style creator and a mixer, which is unheard of in the DGX range.

If you want to check for yourself how similar the DGX 670 is to the PSR SX600, have a look at the DGX 670 manuals, which are already on Yamaha's website.

It is also very clear that the sounds and styles are far superior on the DGX than on the DGX 650 and 660. I am pretty sure that the drums are using the same samples than the Revo drums, like on the PSR SX range.

If you want to find out how the PSR E473 will offer, it is best to draw a comparison between the PSR E363 and 463 and you can be sure that there will be the same quality jump from the PSR E373 to the forthcoming PSR E473.

Hopefully we will se the E473 during the course of 2021...

Regards,

Vinciane

[overover]

...
Number of voices:

DGX-670: 630
SX600: 1373 (That might be an error on Yamaha's website, depending on if the XG voices were counted twice, but even if that is the case, then the total voice count is still likely 893)
...

Hi Bob.

the Owner's Manuals say:
SX600:    850 Voices + 43 Drum/SFX-Kits + 480 XG Voices
DGX670: 601 Voices + 29 Drum/SFX Kits  (The DGX670 probably also has the additional 480 XG Voices, because it is compatible to "XG, GS, GM, GM2" for Song playback)

By the way:
SX700:   986 Voices + 41 Drum-/SFX-Kits + 480 XG Voices
SX900: 1337 Voices + 56 Drum-/SFX-Kits + 480 XG Voices


Best regards,
Chris

[SciNote]

Exactly -- that is what is on the Yamaha website specs, as well, though there are some differences in the way the website lists the voices for the SX700 and 900.  Now, 850 (voices) + 43 (drums/SFX) + 480 (XG) equals 1373 total voices, which is more than what is listed for the SX700 and almost as much as the SX900 on Yamaha's website, which is why I was wondering if it was some sort of misprint, with the 480 XG voices actually being part of the 850 main voices totaled in the spec.  Because, on Yamaha's website, when you look up the specs of the SX600, it brings up a chart giving you the specs of the SX600, 700, and 900, but with the number of voices listed for the SX700 and 900, it does NOT list the 480 XG voices separately, which is why I thought they were part of the totals listed for those keyboards.  But for the SX600, it DOES list the 480 XG separately, like I stated above.  So, if there is a misprint in that chart, maybe it is leaving out the 480 XG voices of the SX700 and 900, which would then make their voice totals much higher.

But yes, the DGX-670 has clearly moved an order of magnitude ahead, with the style creator, additional voices, full XG implementation (the DGX-660 only has XGLite, like the E400 series), 16 track sequencer, hundreds of DSP effects, and 4-variation styles.  That's why I was wondering how much of this might rub off on the E473.  Remember, the DGX-670 is brand new, like the E473 will be.  So a more apples-to-apples comparison based on what we already know would be the DGX-660 to the E453/463, which is where you can clearly see a similarity -- similar number of voices and styles (in fact, the E453/463 have more voices), 6 track sequencer, 2-variation styles, XGLite, and 32 registrations.

Of course, the DGX-660 has certain advanced features not found on the E453/463 -- obviously, the more advanced piano features, but also more polyphony, more DSP effects, more memory for the sequencer, and more auto-accompaniment features.  And now, the DGX-670 has taken a step toward the more advanced arrangers.  For example, I think the reason that you don't see in the specs how many banks of registrations are available is that it appears to be more of a memory-file system, and therefore dependent on available storage, rather than just allotting a fixed number of banks of registrations, like on the E453/463 and DGX-660.  This is an example of a feature that I would not expect to carry over to the E473.

But maybe we'll at least get more banks of registrations, some improvement in the sequencer, and MAYBE 4-variation styles.  I think improvements like this could be implemented without cutting into sales of the SX600, which would still have a more advanced sound engine, more sounds and styles, full XG instead of XGLite, more onboard speaker/amp power, more advanced style options, more registrations, a better sequencer, multi-pads, and the like.

[vbdx66]

Hi,

Nope. There won't be 4-variation styles at this point in the PSR E 4xx series.

As much as features are always dripping down from the Genos to the PSR SX, then from the PSR SX to the PSR E, there has to be some consistency. The E series is more meant for youngsters, beginners and non-gigging hobbyists. It means that the user interface has to be simple and the features easy to use.

4-variation styles are devised to add more flexibility and variety to the automatic accompaniment. There isn't much point in providing this feature in a keyboard if you don't add better sounds, a more powerful sequencer, a style editor, etc.

The PSR E4xx has always followed the E3xx series both in terms of design and features so I am pretty sure that the E473 will be a mix of the E463 and the new features of the E373 and, probably, a few more SA Lite! voices than on the E373, a couple of new styles, a couple of DJ patterns, more DSPs... if Yamaha goes beyond that, prospective buyers won't even consider the PSR SX600.

Wait and see...

Regards,

Vinciane

[SeaGtGruff]

I'm not going to rule out the possibility of the PSR-E473/PSR-EW420 being XG/GS/GM2 compatible like the DGX-670, but if they are I'll be very surprised.

Then again, one of the things I find most surprising about the DGX-670 is that it's priced the same as the DGX-660, so who knows?

[vbdx66]

Hi Michael,

I think that Yamaha positioned the DGX 670 at the same prise as the 660 because of the competitors such as Korg and Casio, it was about time Yamaha put a nice digital arranger piano on the market with cool features at a sensible price, and that's exactly what they did.

Regards,

Vinciane

[pjd]

Gabriel Aldort said something like "Every now and again, Yamaha takes a closer look at a category and does a major revision. Yamaha did that with the DGX-670."

Maybe the pandemic has slowed down product roll out and they will be able to take a look at other market categories. Given the past pace of E series roll-outs, they probably couldn't do more than make (bi-)annual incremental improvements.

In the long run, they could potentially save development costs by consolidating to a single code/content base. Here's hoping!

All the best — pj

[vbdx66]

Hi PJ,

This is not completely accurate.

The PSR E3xx and 4xx normally hit the market every other year. But the last time, Yamaha waited one more year and put the infamous PSR E360 on the market instead of the E373, which came thus three years after the E363. And actually, the E373 can be considered as a major update, not as an incremental update, since the E373 got:

- The Live! Grand Piano voice
- The S Art Lite! voices
- 38 DSPs which are fully tweakable and can be added to any of the voices (which makes it much better than the Casio CT-X700/800, were the DSPs are linked to the patches and cannot be modified at all).

Honestly, with the 150 arpeggios and the integrated digital audio interface already present on the E363, I can't see what could yet be improved on what is supposed to be, let's not forget it, a beginner keyboard, excepted maybe a 6-tracks MIDI recorder.

I must say that I can't wait to see the PSR E473 hit the market next year - it'll be the sweet spot in the PSR E range IMHO.

Actually I am contemplating buying the E373 out of sheer curiosity... it is so cheap that it could be envisaged. With the Aux In, I could even use it as a digital audio interface to record the audio output of my CT-X800 - by the way and off topic, has somebody already tried this out ?

Regards,

Vinciane

[pjd]

Hello Vinciane --

Thanks, I see your points.

The MIDI implementation chart for the E373 is dated February 2020. Gosh, I must be stuck in the pandemic time machine.  Looking at that date, I realize that it's almost a year since we got slammed. 

You're right, the E373 is more than the typical (bi-)annual spiff. Yamaha likely upgraded the processor over the previous E3xx keyboards. (I corrected my earlier remark changing semi to bi. Mental fluff.)

I agree -- it'll be interesting to see the new E473! $200 (USD) for the E373 is inexpensive, but I already have keyboards stacked like cordwood. 

Take care -- pj

[vbdx66]

Hi PJ,

Don't worry, you're not the only one who completely lost track of time with the pandemic 

My husband Serge and I already had a blank year in 2019 because he had a back stroke, went several months in hospital, and when he came back home we spent the rest of the year to try to take up with our lives again, which was very complicated.
We thought 2020 was going to be better, until we got the 1st lockdown, which was pretty hard in France. When things started to slowly get back to normal again, we had three good months, for which I am thankful, then unfortunately Serge passed away, and in November of last year we got our second lockdown.
I hoped that 2021 is going to be better, but quite frankly I am not very optimistic, many venues are closed (it is a lockdown which doesn't state its name), there is a curfew at 18 o' clock which prevents any social life at all excepted for those who work or are going to school... quite depressive. It has also became very difficult to travel between the various European countries, which prevents me from seeing my family since they are all in Belgium... I can't go and they can't come... this is pretty hard.

To come back to topic, we'll, if you resist buying the E373, the fight might be harder when the E473 hits the market 

Out of sheer curiosity, which keyboards are actually stacked in your home?

Take care,

Vinciane

[pjd]

When things started to slowly get back to normal again, we had three good months, for which I am thankful, then unfortunately Serge passed away, and in November of last year we got our second lockdown.

Hello Vinciane --

Please accept my vastly belated condolences and support. That has, indeed, been a rough year for you.

Thoughts and prayers -- pj

[pjd]

To come back to topic, we'll, if you resist buying the E373, the fight might be harder when the E473 hits the market 

Out of sheer curiosity, which keyboards are actually stacked in your home?

Hi Vinciane --

Sorry to be so tardy. I've really cut back on forums and such.

Well, looking around the room: MODX, Genos, MicroKorg XL, SHS-500, Reface YC, Arturia Keystep. The storage room downstairs has Roland XP-60, Nord Electro 2, MOX6, Roland SK-88Pro and one or two things I can't remember.  And the Lord only gave me two hands.  I donated a few keyboards before we moved 18 months ago.

Pandemic-wise, it's almost a year since I played in public. Amazing. Given the small choir space at our church and its proximity to the congregation, I can't even imagine how we will start again safely. Yikes! Fortunately, we abandoned rehearsals (held in a small classroom) as soon as the health authorities identified community spread. Good thing, as a local choir was hit very hard at roughly that same time.

Well, as always, I wish you the best and good health -- pj

[pc131]

Hi,

Nope. There won't be 4-variation styles at this point in the PSR E 4xx series.

Interesting points Vinciane - I would love to see at least 3-variation styles on upcoming E473. However it would be either 4, or it will be most probably 2 variations.

However I really find the intros which are 4 bar (for tango 5 bar) really to long for my taste. I had Yamaha PSR27 (over 30yrs back) which had 1 bar intro and it was fine.
I could live with 4 bar endings, because I (and possible audience) don't care after I finished playing, but I wish we had more intros on PSR E series (or at least it could be configurable via menu "short/long").

And compared to my old PSR27, I really miss TRANSPOSE + - buttons (half step up or down) accessible on the panel, as well as I could set accompaniment volume with slider (now inside menu).

Just thinking out loudly.

[vbdx66]

Hi,

Quite often I'll create my own Intro anyway. If you use the same style for various songs in the same genre, e.g. a Swing style or a Waltz, it'll quickly become boring if all the songs are using the same Intro. It is rather easy to create an original Intro or Ending using a fragment from the melody of the song.

Vinciane

[pc131]

Hi,

Quite often I'll create my own Intro anyway. If you use the same style for various songs in the same genre, e.g. a Swing style or a Waltz, it'll quickly become boring if all the songs are using the same Intro. It is rather easy to create an original Intro or Ending using a fragment from the melody of the song.

Vinciane

Can you edit / create your own intros on PRS e463

[vbdx66]

No you can't pre-record an intro into a style file but I find it quite easy to play your own intro live.

Vinciane

[yamaha80]

if yamaha makes well evolved the psr e 473 its will be the sound engine simplifying the possible psr s650 c that there will be too little change a see two cool sweet voices... while waiting for the 500 series  which will have can be a color screen and 16 tracks in several years (e483 ,e493...) we will be quickly fixed in a few weeks, especially as the medeli akx10 serial competitor will lower price and will find himself between the psr e473 and the sx 600.

[casiokid]

Are you saying, Yamaha80, that there will also be a new PSR500 series in addition to the E473

[Amwilburn]

vbdx is correct, the DGX670 is completely different from its predecessors; yes it's based on the sx600 architecture (which in turn is based on the s770/s775); a very impressive chipset. Don't let the number of sounds fool you; as someone who's played T1, T2, T3, T4, T5 and now Genos, and the PSR2000/3000/s900/s910/s950/s970 & s975 (same chipset)/ sx900, you see which sounds were introduced with each Tyros/Genos iteration.

I saw someone compare the DGX670 to a PSRs670, and that's incorrect; the s670 is based on the non articulated CVP403 voices (which in turn showed up in the CVP503, and PSRs700. So same "number" doesn't mean anything either. And hence the s670 didn't have S.Art studio or strings or live dynamic strings, or S.Art guitars w/ body tap (which originated in the T2) while the sx600/s770/s775/CVP701 all do (and share the same chipset)


Do I think we'll see the DGX670 in the PSRe's anytime soon? No, especially since as VBDX pointed out, the PSRsx600 just launched using the same chip. But at some point, it might be reasonable to assume they might put a simplified PSR3000 /CVP305 chip into a PSRe eventually (that's based of the T1, megavoice, no super articulation sounds).