Tyros 5 wrong sounding voice in midi file

[bassgolf]

I have a Tyros 5.

I have a midi file that I created in Sibelius that has a lead electric guitar sound. I have exported the file using Yamaha protocols and would like to change the guitar sound to the Rock Hero voice. I have deleted the original midi message at the beginning of the track but the guitar sound is still wrong after executing and saving the new configuration. Why can't I hear the correct sound? If I play the keyboard by itself I can hear the correct sound.

Thanks for your help.

Bassgolf

[Fred Smith]

I have a midi file that I created in Sibelius that has a lead electric guitar sound. I have exported the file using Yamaha protocols and would like to change the guitar sound to the Rock Hero voice. I have deleted the original midi message at the beginning of the track but the guitar sound is still wrong after executing and saving the new configuration. Why can't I hear the correct sound? If I play the keyboard by itself I can hear the correct sound.

The "midi message" is just a comment. It has no impact on what is played. You need to change the voice the midi file uses.

First, copy down the number for the voice you want. It's in the form msb-lsb-prg. For example, on a Genos, 60sRockHero is 008-035-008.
In Stepedit, choose the right channel -- 1 for Right1, 2 for R2, 3 for R3.
Go to the top of the channel, and find where it's setting the MSB, LSB and Prog. Change those numbers to the ones you want.
Save the file.

Cheers,
Fred

[overover]

Hi bassgolf,

in addition to Fred's tips:

- If you don't see MSB (= Ctrl 0) / LSB (= Ctrl 32) and / or PC in the Note Events list ("1 - 16" tab), please check the "Filter". Maybe some event types are filtered out there.

- Before pressing the "Execute" button (in Song Creator > Channel > Setup), move the Song position to the top of the Song (press Song STOP button).


Best regards,
Chris

[bassgolf]

Thanks Fred and Chris. I will try this out and report back.

Bassgolf

[bassgolf]

Hello Fred and Chris,

Unfortunately I tried your solution but it didn't work. I can't figure out why. What I did do was make a new recording with me playing the guitar part into ch.7 of the existing file and that seemed to work. I am attaching the audio of the two versions so you can hear the difference in sound yourself.

I really do appreciate your time in helping me out with this.

The two audio versions are Barra 1-which has the proper sound on channel 7 of the Guitar Hero voice (Tyros 5)

and

Barra 2 which has the wrong sound on ch. 2 even though the settings are the same.

I have also attached a photo of the two event lists for you to see.

Please help. I'm at my wits end.

Bassgolf

OOPS!! I just realized that all of my photos and audio files are too big to send you. What do I do?

[Fred Smith]

Upload your files to a file sharing service like Box.net,OneDrive, etc. post the link here.

Also be sure to include the midi file so we can take a look at it for you.

Cheers,
Fred

[bassgolf]

Dear Fred and Chris,

Here are the links for audio and midi

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cyf5pCg9Zci2SENGwfU68pUpLDUXZkl2/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vNfQJNfKpc1_XAccu_qMhkcDu86Aq5NP/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S18JGC1Z0d3Ntmda4rIt0m9nq_G-7Hyc/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MIatDCIs1dKBjnjHsOY99r6QYC2woEdG/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z5QCG6Qrf2DGx3-kzilCc8vUQvfppb6v/view?usp=sharing

[overover]

Hi bassgolf,

I took a close look at your MIDI file:


1. First I opened it with "MixMaster" to get a rough overview of the Voices used and the Sy*** included.

The main problem with subsequent revoicing directly on the Tyros5 is that the original DSP setting is not adopted (neither when exchanging the voices in the "Mixing Console" nor when directly changing the program number (MSB/LSB/PC) in the event list). More on that later ...


2. Then I loaded the file into the "Optimizer XI" (developed by the German company "Midiland"). The "Optimizer" is not cheap (200 euros here in Germany), but this brilliant program is worth every penny.

In the "Optimizer" (set to the instrument "Tyros5") I selected the voice "RockHero (S.Art!) Again on channels 2, 6 and 7. The great advantage of the optimizer is here: It automatically calls it complete VOICE SET, including the used DSP settings (!), then I saved the file with the name "1 Bar-OptimizerXI.mid".

This file should already work as you want it, so the voice "RockHero" including original effects + DSP (Compr. + Overdr. + Temp_Delay 6) on the three channels 2, 6 and 7.


3. I have now loaded the file processed in the optimizer into "PSRUTI" (see also the attached pictures): When loading an error message appeared regarding additional (not XG compliant) data / chunks. These have probably been created by your "Sibelius" program. PSRUTI removes such data automatically.

Next I used the "Optimize XG" function in PSRUTI. This will remove more unnecessary data. Then I saved this version with the name "2 Bar-Opt + XG.mid".


4. Since I found that your original file contains so-called "Keyboard Voice meta events" (and some other, normally unnecessary meta events (eg for the "Guide" function of the Tyros5), I removed all such meta events with PSRUTI and saved the file again with the name "3 Bar-Opt + XGKb.mid".


5. Now I loaded your original MIDI file on the Tyros5. I swapped the voice "RockHero" (in the "Mixing Console") on all three channels (2, 6, 7) for a different voice and then set "RockHero" again. Then I pressed the "Song STOP" button and saved the file again with "Song Creator> Channel> Setup> Execute> Save" (file name "4 Bar-revT5mixer.MID"). Result: The DSP settings are NOT set automatically in this case (!)


6. The only way (when revoicing directly on the Tyros) to get the RIGHT sound if the new voice uses a DSP is to make the DSP settings manually (file "5 Bar-revT5+DSP.MID":

Press the "Mixing Console" button several times until "Song Ch 1 - 8" appears and go to the "Effect" tab. Here you press "Type" (F button) and then "Block" (A button).

Basically, the assignment of the insert DSPs that can be used in MIDI files (2- 7) to the individual channels (1 - 16) of the MIDI file is not specified. (DSP1, which can alternatively be used as a system effect, we leave out here.)

So choose with the 1/2 buttons and 3/4 buttons (for the sake of simplicity) set the following assignment:

DSP 2 >>> CH 2
DSP 6 >>> CH 6
DSP 7 >>> CH 7

Now set "CATEGORY" (B button) to "Legacy" and "TYPE" to "Comp + OD + Tmp Delay 6") for each of the three DSPs 2, 6 and 7. (You can also use the Data Wheel.)

Then press "Exit" button twice and open "Song Creator". Press "Song STOP" and save the file again ("Channel> Setup> Execute> Save).

Now the three channels with the voice "RockHero" should sound as desired (including DSP effect).


You can download the MIDI files I created here:

>>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5y9ydp9lcox0us1/AAASzz6-FGiG4SIBAkuAhgJNa?dl=0

- No. 0 is your original file.
- The Files No. 1, 2, 3 and 5 should have the "right" sound on CH 2, 6 and 7.
- File No. 4 was revoiced on Tyros5, but without manually making the DSP settings (and sounds "wrong" for this reason).


P.S.
My tip: Buy the "Midifile Optimizer XI" if you have to edit MIDI files more often.


Hope this will help you a little!

Best regards,
Chris

[attachment deleted by admin]

[bassgolf]

Wow!! That is so complicated Chris. Thanks for all that work. Would it be better for me to export a midi file from Sibelius in GM format rather than Yamaha format? Or does that matter at all? I wish that the Tyros5 was more user friendly and intuitive. While on the the topic of midi files, can one punch in and out playing live to a new track in a midi file on the Tyros? Or is there a way to copy and paste within a track in the Song section?

Many thanks for all your hard work.

Bassgolf

[overover]

Wow!! That is so complicated Chris. Thanks for all that work. Would it be better for me to export a midi file from Sibelius in GM format rather than Yamaha format? Or does that matter at all? I wish that the Tyros5 was more user friendly and intuitive. While on the the topic of midi files, can one punch in and out playing live to a new track in a midi file on the Tyros? Or is there a way to copy and paste within a track in the Song section?

Many thanks for all your hard work.

Bassgolf

Hi Bassgolf,

thanks for your feedback!

It basically depends on what is more important in a particular case: the music NOTATION or the SOUND and FEEL of a particular song.

If you directly enter the NOTES in a Notation program like "Sibelius" (with the mouse, the computer keyboard or even with a MIDI keyboard), then the NOTES are perfect, but the song usually has no "feeling". But in this case, the SOUND (if the notes are played back via a MIDI sound generator or the integrated software synth) is usually not that important.

Normally, I think you will usually work the other way around, so first import the song as a MIDI recording, then edit this MIDI data and finally (if necessary) generate the NOTES from it (either directly in a DAW or, for professional Notation, import the MIDI file into a program like "Sibelius").

The following procedure is recommended:

- Play the song with a suitable Style and record your performance directly on the keyboard (e.g. Tyros5) with the integrated MIDI recorder. (Not everything has to be played perfectly. Later you can touch up / change EVERYTHING on the computer if necessary.)

- In one pass (MIDI Quick Recording) the 8 style parts are recorded on channels 9 - 16, the (activated) Right parts on channels 1, 3 and 4 and the Left part on channel 2. If necessary, you can also add more channels ("tracks") with "MIDI Multi Recording".

- With these recordings on the keyboard it is important that you already use the Voices that you want to have in the finished MIDI file.

- Now save the MIDI recording on a USB stick and import it on the computer into a DAW. This offers the best possible MIDI editing options. As a MIDI sequencer I use an old "Logic" PC version or the "Midifile Optimizer XI", because it now also has a "Piano roll" editor, in which you can edit individual notes well.

- Due to the described procedure, you now automatically have the complete Voice settings ("Voice Set" including DSP settings) for each channel in the DAW.

- The "Optimzer" has the great advantage that even when changing Voices in a Midi file, it always automatically calls up the complete Voice Set including DSP settings and also writes it to the Midi file. The "Optimizer" also offers the option of setting ALL DSP parameters in a clear manner using a graphical user interface. So you can really change EVERYTHING here and set it exactly how you want it.

- Of course, for all MIDI file edits, the computer must be connected to the keyboard (e.g. Tyros5) via MIDI or USB-MIDI. The MIDI output of the individual tracks in the DAW must always be routed to the SONG parts of the keyboard (= Receive on MIDI Port 1).


- There is another method for ALL Voice Set and Effect settings to be applied when revoicing MIDI files: The "Voicefile Revoicing" function in "PSRUTI". You save the desired Voice settings of a keyboard  Voice (eg from Right 1) as a so-called "User Voice" (to be found on the Tyros5 in the "Voice Set"). Of course you can also save an unchanged Preset Voice as a "User Voice". this Voice Set file is then used in PSRUTI to use "Voicefile Revoicing" to write ALL Voice parameters of the desired voice into the MIDI file.

- Only if you are primarily concerned with NOTATION should you start with a song directly in Sibelius. As I said, when it comes to MUSIC, I recommend starting with the keyboard.

[bassgolf]

I am more interested in the Notation side. I am a composer that also jams with friends that are all professional musicians and can readily sight read. I have found that many of the available sheet music scores of rock/pop tunes are not correct. Hence my interest in the notation side. Is "psruti" part of the "Optimizer" program? Is this optimizer a piece of hardware or software? Please excuse my ignorance.

One other thing I don't understand is why the DSP in the midi channels has to be changed. Why don't they already correspond to the separate midi ch.? See below:

<<<Basically, the assignment of the insert DSPs that can be used in MIDI files (2- 7) to the individual channels (1 - 16) of the MIDI file is not specified. (DSP1, which can alternatively be used as a system effect, we leave out here.)

So choose with the 1/2 buttons and 3/4 buttons (for the sake of simplicity) set the following assignment:

DSP 2 >>> CH 2
DSP 6 >>> CH 6
DSP 7 >>> CH 7 >>>>>

Also how do you quote and have it highlighted? I like that!!

Thanks again.

Bassgolf