Install Packs

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Can you now install packs individually??


all the best
John

[EileenL]

Yes once you have done an initial load from the YEM to the keyboard as this then tells the keyboard you will be using the new Quick load.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Eileen

Thanks for the info as i loaded a single pack in and it over rode the rest of my packs .
So hopefully after highlighting all packs after that first failure it will now recognize the quick load.

All the best
John

[Rick D.]

From what I understand, if you use YEM you can add additional packs. If you load Packs from USB, you can only have one at a time.

Rick D.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Well, I have tried installing one pack ,but the Genos will not let me.
Always comes up in a nice little box saying you cannot quick install only the full load way.
I have tried in yem and just the keyboard from usb stick.
I had to turn the machine off or all of my installed packs will get reformatted.
The big trouble is that it does not give you a cancel option, so the big switch off is needed or you are reformatted.with empty suitcases!!!.   

It does say cannot quick  install ppi/ cpi or something like that.

Annoying .

All the best
john

[Rick D.]

John,

Check out this thread from the Genos Expansion Area.
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,53766.msg419148.html#msg419148

Rick D.

[StuartR]

Hi
Well, I have tried installing one pack ,but the Genos will not let me.
Always comes up in a nice little box saying you cannot quick install only the full load way.
I have tried in yem and just the keyboard from usb stick.
I had to turn the machine off or all of my installed packs will get reformatted.
The big trouble is that it does not give you a cancel option, so the big switch off is needed or you are reformatted.with empty suitcases!!!.   

It does say cannot quick  install ppi/ cpi or something like that.

Annoying .

All the best
john

Don't feel bad John. As far as i can tell, the documentation for this new quick pack install feature is lacking, to say the least. I've tried it twice with one success and one failure. Oh, and once you use it, if you ever want to reinstall that pack (because say you created it and modified it later), you have to use the full method. The quick pack feature won't let you overwrite a previously installed one.

[valimaties]

Don't feel bad John. As far as i can tell, the documentation for this new quick pack install feature is lacking, to say the least. I've tried it twice with one success and one failure. Oh, and once you use it, if you ever want to reinstall that pack (because say you created it and modified it later), you have to use the full method. The quick pack feature won't let you overwrite a previously installed one.

Good to know... I think they didn't thought this might happening

[EileenL]

Hello John,
  When just wanting to add one pack you must still have ticks in all the packs you have loaded into your keyboard first. You then tick the pack you want to add and then choose CQI file to create pack.
  If you don't have any packs loaded in your keyboard and only want to load one pack then you would use the normal way.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Eileen

Done that and Quick install is not available.
Another 20 minutes to load all again.
Not very good.

All the Best
john

[EileenL]

Hello John,
  It worked fine for me when I installed a new pack I bought. Maybe not as fast as I though via USB but certainly quicker than a full load.

[StuartR]

Hi Eileen

Done that and Quick install is not available.
Another 20 minutes to load all again.
Not very good.

All the Best
john

There are clearly some bugs remaining in YEM around this new feature. Here's hoping we see a new version sooner rather than later.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
This Yem is buggy and quick install does not work
Well , it does work and it tells you it doesn't.
Unbelievably it wants also to re-format at certain times instead of quick install.
Must be a random feature installed into Yem.

A. P. U. Off moment

all the best
john

[EileenL]

Hi John,
  I have done this now three times adding packs and all has worked well for me. I use mainly Yamaha packs.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Eileen

I reckon that Yamaha packs work installing individually , but other packs have trouble with quick install.


All the best
john

[EileenL]

I loaded Dreamscapes OK and that is not Yamaha pack.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Eileen

Maybe it is the pack i put together makeing the problem from the CMS site.
I do find it all a little quirky at the moment.

All the best
John

[EileenL]

You may be right John,
  I have a couple of the sounds I liked but added them to a larger pack and loaded them the normal way.

[Hammond Yamaha]

I had this installing working ok BUT  since last week, I have tried to install more packs and to no avail.
Today I had all packs in YEM checked and tried to lead in another pack, the pack that I wanted to load
was not on the list and one of the packs I had already leaded installed but the other 4 - 5 that I had previously
installed disappeared.  This is frustrating.

Can someone please make a suggestion.

Thank you,

Frank

[Hammond Yamaha]

Well, I did not give up.  I now have 6 style packs installed.
I did as Eileen suggested,  Check all packs installed and then chose the one I wanted to
install.  However, I changed the format to .cpi  which took a little longer but they are installed.

Frank

[Ashtangakasha]

Clearly, there are some bugs involved in all this, most likely in YEM itself, but to my mind the underlying problem is the complexity of the situation as a whole -- that YEM is so weirdly designed, and has such a counter-intuitive user interface, along with an almost complete absence of useful documentation (not to mention the lack of an authoritative truly helpful instructional video from Yamaha). Given this perfect storm of oddities, errors, and omissions, it's challenging even to identify which problems are coming from possible bugs, and which are due to poor design, non-standard GUI, or user error.

In fairness, one can hardly consider these reported difficulties simply as user error when it's so difficult to explain YEM's unusual use cases in the first place! I shudder to think of all those Genos owners who don't visit discussion groups like this one, and who may well have only marginal expertise at their local keyboard store. Or the third-party developers who have to support their customers with very limited resources, while trying to sell their products to a market that's already having problems installing things.

Realistically, these issues probably span multiple departments at Yamaha. The seriously expert developers who designed generations of Arranger UI's, and the intensely technical developers who wrote the elaborate firmware inside generations of Arrangers, obviously didn't create YEM. Or if they did, certainly not as a consumer product (perhaps as a quick file transfer utility that wasn't originally conceived as a critical tool for thousands of users).

But the will to fix all this will require mandate and funding from an overarching layer of Yamaha admin, and that's where Marketing comes into play. So it's a bit of a strategic mess for us users, and we really need to get the right feedback to the right levels of Yamaha management. They're rightfully proud of their position in the musical instrument industry, and this YEM situation should be deeply embarrassing to someone at Yamaha with major clout.

Allen

[EileenL]

If you are talking about pack loading and then making install packs for the keyboard it is really very simple. I have been doing this now for a few years including Tyros5 and now Genos with out any problems but as with most things you must follow the instructions carefully. With Genos and now the SX900 these keyboards will accept PPF files as well as CPF files. You must always make sure that the packs you want to load all together are all ticked and that you have enough room in the keyboard memory to load them. Once you have done this you are ready to create your install pack and you have two choices to send direct to instrument or to save to USB. Both methods will take a little time so you must be patient.

[DerekA]

I hear what you are saying Eileen and yes, you are right, it is not that difficult once you understand it and have tried it a few times.

However, we constantly see the same questions from people about how to install multiple packs. I think that *whether we like it or not*, that indicates that something about the process is proving very hard for a lot of people to understand. Without doing a proper study of where people are coming up against blocks it's hard to say exactly what part of it is the real problem.

This should be giving the Yamaha designers some food for thought - they want people to use the features they've built, so they should be trying hard to make it simpler.

[Reg]

  AMEN   Derek. Do Roland and Korg owners have similar issues ?      Reg

[Ashtangakasha]

Eileen is absolutely correct -- it is easy once you understand what the protocols are. And having people like the experts on this and Eileen's forum is invaluable in acquiring that understanding.

What I'm hoping is that Yamaha will put more attention on what we UX folks call "discoverability." It's at the core of any well-designed but complex system. The idea is that as you use a complex system, like the Genos or the 900, etc., you begin to "grok" the underlying approach of the UI design team. You pick up on their style of getting things done, and this affords you with the ability to predict how something should be done, even if you've never tried it before.

Clearly, the designers of YEM weren't thinking about the "style" of how the Genos works -- YEM is much older, and serves diverse keyboard instruments, so they had a very different task than just adding functionality to a Genos or a Tyros. But this is where discoverability comes in.

If YEM were more cleverly conceived, one ought to be able to figure out how to use it without having to read extensively in a manual (because loading packs is indeed inherently very simple), and especially without having to perform research, or consult with experts online. YEM is a utility, not a full-blown application. But in my opinion, it should be designed as a full-blown application -- one that doesn't necessarily do a lot, but which has all the affordances and self-explanatory, self-documenting facilities that any typical user would need -- to be effortlessly self-sufficient.

I'm sure that Yamaha's ultimate goal is customer satisfaction. This YEM chunk of the Yamaha keyboard user experience is not making people exclaim, "Nice and easy. Yamaha thought of everything. It's always a treat to use their tools." But it could, and it wouldn't be a huge investment. They just need to transfer a little more of their marvelous attention to detail in fine brass forging and sophisticated software development to those "lesser" aspects that are nevertheless also required to fully use their products.

Maybe a little more constructive feedback from users, perhaps via their product specialists or their retailers, is all they need. I'm not sure if that's the best way, and that's why I posted my previous msg.

Allen