Keyboard export to YEM

[valimaties]

Do you feel you need an export option in keyboard for YEM?
Or in YEM (as they send information thru wireless) to receive data from keyboard? A direct transfer of selectable data from keyboard to YEM!
Or a function in keyboard to export data, crypted, to USB and to import it in YEM from that "file".

Please vote what do you think about it?

Personally, I miss this feature from T2-T4 ! When you could export all your library in any moment! 

[Henni]

Hi Vali,

What a great idea!!!

Kind regards,

Henni

[DerekA]

I'm not sure what your use case is here, since all the data has to come from YEM in the first place.

Can you explain?

[Antonio]

Hello Vali

for me: Or in YEM (as they send information thru wireless) to receive data from keyboard? A direct transfer of selectable data from keyboard to YEM!

Thank you also for idea!

[valimaties]

I'm not sure what your use case is here, since all the data has to come from YEM in the first place.

Can you explain?

Supposing you lost all your installation and backup files. How do you retrieve the information which you have already in your keyboard? Ok, Yamaha does not want to see what's going on in the back of those files (wave compression, encryption of cpf packs and so on). So in this case, it is better they will create a procedure to export data as they are in Expansion memory to a ".yep (YEM Pack File)" which could be read by YEM and to recreate the installation as it is! Or directly to a PPI/CPI file, which is already created for installing in the keyboard by YEM. I know it is a lot of job to do it, but I think the functions are already made : Reading from ppi or cpi files (so, decompressing process exists, packs structure exists, as we see folders in keyboard exactly like in YEM, it remains to make the job in the opposite way, to create the file from keyboard memory).

[Henni]

Hi Vali,

Exactly this happened to me. Your software could have saved me. Excellent idea my talented friend.

Henni

[Joe H]

Vali,

I think Yamaha first thought would be... anyone can pirate our packs now by exporting.  I think if it is encrypted ONLY (copy protected for just keyboard it is exported from) this might be acceptable to Yamaha.

Joe H

[valimaties]

Vali,

I think Yamaha first thought would be... anyone can pirate our packs now by exporting.

Joe, it cannot be pirated. Why? Because if it was bought from an account he/she must add UserName and Password. If was bought with n27 file, from a 3rd party , the pack cannot be installed for other keyboard, because it does not fit the same code.
In my opinion, it can be done! And in this way, even for those who voted No, it will be VERY useful But they don't realize what a good thing will be if they will have it

This is the best solution for ALL users, specially for those with less PC skills

PS: If I search on the forum, some years ago I have "request" Style Section Reset function, and I have a lot of negative feedback for this thing ) Now, when they added it, those who said to me (directly) they don't need, today says this function is very good ))

But with this pool, personally, I want to see who many have PC skills and how many doesn't! Because, IMO, those No votes comes for those who knows how to make a backup of User folder, where to find it, and understand what is inside there  

Regards,
Vali

[Toril S]

I would get rid of YEM for installing packs. Too much cnofusion with all the different pack installation files pp that and cpp that and so on, and if you do something wrong, there goes your treassured packs out the window. Well, they can be restored at Yamaha website, another complicated site, and procedures to get it done. It would be great just to get the pack as a normal file, copy it to your keyboard as such and be done with it! But because of copyright protection that will never happen. It can be done, all this roundabout file structures and installation procedures are for protection of material, and it is NOT user friendly.

[torben]

Toril - you said it. YEM is the worst piece of software you can imagine. Totally unpredictable ...

Kindest greetings

Torben

[DerekA]

I'm a professional programmer so I have some thoughts about this.

The main one is that Yamaha is probably using a one-way algorithm to convert the pack data in YEM into an installation file, which may include one-way compression of wave data. It might not be practical to deconstruct the installation file back into a structure which would map onto the pack model used in YEM.

My evidence for this is how long it takes to make the installation file, and how long to install. It's clearly not just copying data around, otherwise the installation would only take the time to transfer the data from USB onto the internal flash memory.

[EileenL]

Like all things the YEM is not difficult to understand when you use it a lot as this is the best way to get used to it and know exactly what it can and can't do. All packs I have downloaded after purchase I have saved to a spare computer drive and also a couple of USB sticks plus on my currant computer.
  It is unlikely that all these will go down at one time. They are also in the YEM and can be made into a CPF or PPF files if not protected. Those that are can be downloaded from your account at Yamaha Music Soft.
  It is no more difficult to save in this way than to save your favorite purchased styles or registrations.
The YEM system is much better than having to fit things like Dim's memory.

[Wim]

I understand that Yamaha wants to protect its software, but why in this somewhat complicated way. If you visit someone who also owns a Genos, or going to test at your dealer. And you want to show your reg. you had made from, for example, "Once upon a time in the West" and you used the women's voice from the Italy pack, or the same voice via CMS-Design. Then you have a problem if they don't have the same expansion packs that you own.
The possibility to put the expansion memorty on a USB stick with a kind of  security on it. Or an extra  security code stick that you have to place at the back with your own unique code.
A kind of dongle principe. If you forget  to take them with you again than it will be imposible to use the packs at your own keyboard. Because the security for use the packs is somwhere else. And that person is very happy.
This increases  in my mind the flexibility to use and therefor purchase packs.earlier. Must also be a sales advantage for Yamaha,

rgds Wim

[torben]

Dear friends

I have been working - as a professional court IT supervisor -  for 15 years. And  I repeat - YEM is the worst kind of software I have seen to be used by "normal" non-professional it users....

There is no legitimate defence - nor by the surely well-meaning Eileen or other keen YAMAHA supporters - that can explain why this kind of .. should be presented to ordinary musicians. Period.

The need of software protection should be programmed in a much easier and logical way. Not by using several strange filetypes of ppf, cpi, cqi or I do not know what. Simply stupid.

There are NO excuses...

Torben

[Toril S]

Amen to that! It is a paradox: First they make wonderful, user friendly keyboards, and then make the worst software to go with them! I love Yamaha keyboards, but really, really hate YEM, and their complicated website as well. And I think I am not alone.

[valimaties]

Ok, let's come back to the reason of this post-poll. I didn't created it to say what we like or unlike to Yamaha, but if there is the needed of exporting from Keyboard to YEM.
The protection MUST be done, and it is done, really. I don't think anyone can crack Yamaha's protection even if there will be a Keyboard-To-Soft translation of the expansion content Importing CPFs into YEM is likely the same thing They only have to create that function to export and that's it!

[EileenL]

To answer the question No I don't think it is necessary to export samples from the keyboard flash memory to the YEM. What would be the point of this as you have to use the YEM to put them in the keyboard in the first place. Surly it would only add to the confusion that some seem to have with using this programme. For most of us we seem to be happy using YEM as it is.
  Don't forget it was purchasers of the Tyros keyboards that asked for a better way of using expansion voices. They wanted to be able to use more than slots allotted for this so the YEM was born. Yamaha also compressed there packs with out any loss of quality to allow many more packs to be loaded.
  Yes Yamaha try to protect there packs and who can blame them. If an unprotected pack were to be put on here it would get hundreds of downloads and all those development costs would be lost by the company and they would stop producing them. As a result every one would suffer.
  I am sure that is not what you want.

[Bill]

Hi Vali

I too do not think it would be a worthwhile feature.  I do not understand why so many people think it is very complicated now, so how they would get on if you could re-import pack data back into YEM.

Regards

Bill

[Bill]

Dear friends

I have been working - as a professional court IT supervisor -  for 15 years. And  I repeat - YEM is the worst kind of software I have seen to be used by "normal" non-professional it users....

There is no legitimate defence - nor by the surely well-meaning Eileen or other keen YAMAHA supporters - that can explain why this kind of .. should be presented to ordinary musicians. Period.

The need of software protection should be programmed in a much easier and logical way. Not by using several strange filetypes of ppf, cpi, cqi or I do not know what. Simply stupid.

There are NO excuses...

Torben

Hi Torben

I simply do not understand why you find YEM so confusing.  The program might not be the most intuitive, but if you actually work your way through the manual it cannot get much easier, considering what the program actually does.

I always thought that you were a Judge, however if you have been an IT professional for 15 years, the small number of File Types should be easy and understandable.  Just compare it to the Vast Number of Audio formats there are these days.  You mention in your post (before you made changes to it) you stated that it was unpredictable, It is NOT PERIOD.

As far as I can see, the biggest problem with YEM is that it does not do lots of things that some people would have liked it to.   But it does the job that it was designed for VERY WELL.

Bill

[Lloyd E]

YEM needs an overhaul. Why can't it be simple instead of the way it works (It doesn't always)

[Wim]

Hi Torben

I simply do not understand why you find YEM so confusing.  The program might not be the most intuitive, but if you actually work your way through the manual it cannot get much easier, considering what the program actually does.
Bill

I also have no problem by using Yewm. As I right before when making a reg for a Melody and you use Voice(s) or a Style form a (expansion)pack
you can never take this reg with you to play somewhere else. Than that keyboard must have the same pack. Therefore I never you Yem and also not buy packs. I am to limited than. So find a good resolusion for use (voices/styles) it also with copy protection on a flexible USB stick
rgds Wim.

[Al Ram]

I already voted on this question.

In relation to YEM . .  i believe the program is good but NOT user friendly.    That issue could be easily solved by adding a click/button to get instructions on how to use the program.

In other words . . .  in the YEM program itself there should be a place to click and get the user manual.   (Not a separate user manual, but something inside YEM).

At least i could not find it.

thanks

[EileenL]

Hi Wim if a pack could work from a USB then it would not be protected.

[Wim]

Hallo Eileen, Is a little to much to explain everything here. But you have (old) programms who use a so called dongle. So If you  put your unique code, like you have to do now also for use the Yem and for example put this one in the rear off the keyboard und your expansion memory is at a different stick. Say you already use for all your other things.  And put this one in the front USB port. Than it must work at every Genos. And the packs are still protected.  So without the combination of the two sticks you cannot use the packs. People who own StyleMagic use the same principe. And you have already more modern methods for do something like this for pc's without the use of a dongle.

[Tyros5Mad]

For some reason companies who provide music software are extra paranoid about piracy. Try buying a plugin from some of the top plugin providers. Some require you to use a dongle, which is an encoded piece of hardware that plugs into a USB port, some require you to install software like ILOk before you can even purchase their stuff and it goes on and on. YEM falls into that "stupidly paranoid" software category for me and I will not use it. Period.

And then some clever person breaks the code and gives the software away to everybody for free just to spit in the face of the vendor. Years ago I took great pleasure in doing just that. These days I am a lot more mellow and I just will not use the software.

Now don't get me wrong. I believe that anyone who spends a lot of time making a piece of software should be able to get money for it, if he or she wants to. But really why do we have to jump through hoops to use the software, in some cases just to get the software? This is the only reason why I never became interested interested in Pro Tools. Why bother when you can get something like Cakewalk by Bandlab for free or Reaper for a mere $60US?

I use lots of software that their developers do not charge anything for except to ask for a donation if you like the software. I will make a point of donating some money if I like the software and use it regularly. After all it takes time to make anything that is good.

My 2 cents
Regards,
Richard

[EileenL]

You don't only spit in the face of the vendor but also every single person who has bough the software in an honest way wanting to have extra's for there keyboard. Not something I would be proud of.

[Toril S]

We did not buy YEM. We just have to use ir wherher we like it or not, if we want additional packs for our keyboards!

[Tyros5Mad]

You don't only spit in the face of the vendor but also every single person who has bought the software in an honest way wanting to have extra's for there keyboard. Not something I would be proud of.

Yes I agree Eileen. When I did it, I was young and brash, so I have mended my terrible ways 

We did not buy YEM. We just have to use ir wherher we like it or not, if we want additional packs for our keyboards!

Plenty of free stuff available, I don't need YEM.

Regards,
Richard

[DerekA]

The biggest issues I have with YEM is that it is so slow when ticking / unticking / building packs, and seems a bit buggy.

I do agree it could be a lot better, but I also remember that when I had an S750 I could load only one small pack at a time, which had to be from the limited Yamaha range. So yes, YEM has its faults, but it is a trmendous improvement on what went before.

[EileenL]

Yes I agree that YEM is a much better way to load your voices and packs and we don't have to wait twenty minutes before using the keyboard as we had to do with the previous system. Now we have 3Gb of memory most things you are likely to use can be loaded in one go. It is nice also that they have included a couple of previous packs in the new superior pack so three boxes we don't have to tick.
  I don't find it slow when ticking boxes. The full pack takes about ten minutes to make so not to bad.