Style Section Reset is coming to Genos

[reya]

Today I was informed by a Yamaha representative that :

1) Genos 2 is not coming soon.
2) Yamaha is currently working on a new software version for Genos.
3) Style Section Reset is one of the features that will be in this new software version for Genos.

[Fred Smith]

Today I was informed by a Yamaha representative that :

1) Genos 2 is not coming soon.
2) Yamaha is currently working on a new software version for Genos.
3) Style Section Reset is one of the features that will be in this new software version for Genos.

As always, we'll believe it when we see it, but I expect your prediction is pretty good, especially #1.

Cheers,
Fred

[ton37]

Besides, how soon is not soon ?

[Lee Batchelor]

I wonder when the new software is coming, especially since they just released two new updates. Are we talking a huge re-write or just more small trinkets? I'd be happy just to see Yamaha learn the definition of "alphabetical order" - you know, that extremely complex bit of software that has been on computers for the past 40 years!!

[Fred Smith]

I wonder when the new software is coming, especially since they just released two new updates. Are we talking a huge re-write or just more small trinkets? I'd be happy just to see Yamaha learn the definition of "alphabetical order" - you know, that extremely complex bit of software that has been on computers for the past 40 years!!

I agree, we've been asking for alphabetical order for years. At least a setting where we can specify the order we want.

However, with the Search function on the Genos, the lack of alphabetical order is less of an annoyance now.

Cheers,
Fred

[Lee Batchelor]

I agree, we've been asking for alphabetical order for years. At least a setting where we can specify the order we want.

However, with the Search function on the Genos, the lack of alphabetical order is less of an annoyance now.

Cheers,
Fred

Agreed, Fred. A default alphabetical sort or the option to set a sort order is what we call, "See Spot run" coding. A Grade 5 student could set that up!!

[Wim]

[quote
1) Genos 2 is not coming soon.
[/quote]

Because the Genos selling did not reach the expetations of Yamaha. And certainly not what they were hoping for. Attract a younger audience for buying a Genos. Also with the hiring of a designer to make the Genos look ***ier. Which, in my opinion, was a wrong decision for the users. For example, the Multipad buttons are no longer where they I think should be. Just like with the Tyros.   When I saw the promo videos, I already knew they were aiming for the wrong horse. That was confirmed by the audience present at the various live demos. And my sales store told me later, to see the same with the buyers of the Genos. The same age category as that of the Tyros..

[Fred Smith]

Because the Genos selling did not reach the expetations of Yamaha.

I think you're wrong about that. I think their sales have exceeded their expectations.

However, coming out with new products is expensive. Other companies, like Apple, have shown that if you come out with software improvements, people will continue buying the product. So Yamaha had adopted this tactic. By continually adding features in each update, they prolong the life of the product considerably. It also avoids the "wait until the next model" syndrome. Why wait, when you can enjoy the product now, and Yamaha will deliver new features to you for free.

Cheers,
Fred

[Lee Batchelor]

I think you're wrong about that. I think their sales have exceeded their expectations.
However, coming out with new products is expensive. Other companies, like Apple, have shown that if you come out with software improvements, people will continue buying the product. So Yamaha had adopted this tactic. By continually adding features in each update, they prolong the life of the product considerably. It also avoids the "wait until the next model" syndrome. Why wait, when you can enjoy the product now, and Yamaha will deliver new features to you for free.
Cheers,
Fred

Once again, I agree. The basic internals of the Genos are outstanding. It only needs a few useful tweaks here and there. If Yamaha can send through several tweaks over the next few years, their customer base will be even more loyal. If they want to tic people off, make them pay another $6,000 just for a few extras. For that kind of money, the Genos 2 would need to be mind blowing over the Genos 1.

[pjd]

If they want to tic people off, make them pay another $6,000 just for a few extras. For that kind of money, the Genos 2 would need to be mind blowing over the Genos 1.

Amen to that! I use MODX for gigging and I'm more likely to chase new models in that light weight product line than a Genos successor. I really need only one arranger for practice/production -- Genos 2 would have to clean my house and cook dinner, too. 

All the best -- pj

[rattley]

Style Section Reset

Exactly what is this and what will it let me do??  Will I even use it??    Thanks.  -charley

[Lee Batchelor]

Charley, a style section reset function allows players to restart a style at any point in a bar of music. For example, some songs in 4/4 time have a 2/4 bar inserted. With the current Genos, that 2/4 bar throws the style out of sync with the downbeat. A reset function allows players to reset the 1 count right after the 2/4 bar. A classic example is with the song, Pretty Woman, right before the lyric, "I don't believe you, you're not the truth" there is a 2/4 bar.

Have I got this right, everyone?

[Fred Smith]

Charley, a style section reset function allows players to restart a style at any point in a bar of music. For example, some songs in 4/4 time have a 2/4 bar inserted. With the current Genos, that 2/4 bar throws the style out of sync with the downbeat. A reset function allows players to reset the 1 count right after the 2/4 bar. A classic example is with the song, Pretty Woman, right before the lyric, "I don't believe you, you're not the truth" there is a 2/4 bar.

Have I got this right, everyone?

Style reset allows you to press a button, and the style will immediately revert to beat 1.

The practical uses are if you are off the beat, you can reset. Or, if your singer is off the beat, you can join them when they get to beat 1.

Cheese,
Fred

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Also would be nice to press the fill buttons and it immediately triggers a fill.
This would mean if you were slighty off the mark it would bring you back in, or call it humanising.
Just a thought!!

All the best
john

[Moontom]

Yamaha is adding the Reset but not the Chord Looper from the 900SX? weird....

[Fred Smith]

Yamaha is adding the Reset but not the Chord Looper from the 900SX? weird....

Not so weird.

Style reset is easy to add because they can duplicate the Tap Tempo button function on the SX.

However, chord looper has dedicated buttons on the SX, which the Genos does not have.

Cheers,
Fred

[Fred Smith]

Also would be nice to press the fill buttons and it immediately triggers a fill.
This would mean if you were slighty off the mark it would bring you back in, or call it humanising.
Just a thought!!

John,

My Genos triggers the fill immediately. When is it that yours doesn't?

Cheers,
Fred

[rattley]

Thanks!   I could find this quite useful.  -charley

[Snicker740]

Not so weird.

Style reset is easy to add because they can duplicate the Tap Tempo button function on the SX.

However, chord looper has dedicated buttons on the SX, which the Genos does not have.

Cheers,
Fred

Actually, it is not difficult to solve this problem.
Chord Looper will be a feature of the Style group. And can assign it in any node at ABCDEF.
It is important that Yamaha wants to deploy it to Genos, or leave it to Genos 2.
Like the STYLE CREATOR / DrumSetup feature on the S970 that Tyros 5 does not have.

[Fred Smith]

Actually, it is not difficult to solve this problem.
Chord Looper will be a feature of the Style group. And can assign it in any node at ABCDEF.
It is important that Yamaha wants to deploy it to Genos, or leave it to Genos 2.
Like the STYLE CREATOR / DrumSetup feature on the S970 that Tyros 5 does not have.

I agree it's not difficult to solve using the assignable buttons. But that would take some effort on the part of the programmers. This is Yamaha we're talking about. Taking the easy way out is what's not weird for them.

Cheers,
Fred

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

John,

My Genos triggers the fill immediately. When is it that yours doesn't?

Cheers,
Fred

Hi Fred
I find that if you press a fill ,sometimes it does not trigger instantly ,only when your timing is right does it work every time.

All the best
John

[valimaties]

Hi Fred
I find that if you press a fill ,sometimes it does not trigger instantly ,only when your timing is right does it work every time.

All the best
John

Yes, indeed, this is how a fill works on any Yamaha arranger. If you don't press on the first bar, it will trigger ONLY the Rhythm channel.

Regards,
Vali

[Fred Smith]

Yes, indeed, this is how a fill works on any Yamaha arranger. If you don't press on the first bar, it will trigger ONLY the Rhythm channel.

So you agree the fill triggers immediately.

And I'm sure you meant 1st beat, not 1st bar.

Cheers,
Fred

[valimaties]

1. So you agree the fill triggers immediately.

2. And I'm sure you meant 1st beat, not 1st bar.

Cheers,
Fred

1. The Fill triggers immediately, but only Drum Channel if the button is not pressed on the first beat. This is not a good thing. If you write a style with 4/4 type measure, and on Fill/Break you only write a Kick and Cymbal on the first beat and a C on Bass Channel, same on first beat, if you press the Fill on 2nd or third beat, the drum channel will not play anything but you will hear every other channels which play on variation which has played when fill was pressed. And this is not normal.
For example, on Korg, in the same conditions described above, you will hear the first beat of the fill and after that will continue from the beat when button was pressed, all the channels.

2. Correctly.

[Lee Batchelor]

I've often wondered why I didn't hear the complete fill. You have to be deadly accurate with your timing. I always thought they had some sort of quantize timing on this. I guess the Genos is good but not a mind reader !

[panos]

A "fill in" is a 4 beat pattern and some channels will play a small riff.
Listening to 1/4,2/4 or 3/4 of a "fill in" for all organs, maybe won't make any musical "sense" and maybe it won't sound good.You cannot "cut" a riff in...pieces.

I guess that's why the style triggers in this case just the drum channels.

Also we should keep in mind that not all channels have a different pattern in the fill in or even they don't play at all in the "fill in" because a "fill in" mainly suppose to be the "drummers solo part" in a song,I believe.

Just saying...

John, when I want to trigger the fill in in the first bar no matter what,I press it a little harder or I keep it pressed after the 4th beat of the main until I hear it playing when the 1st beat enters.

[valimaties]

A "fill in" is a 4 beat pattern and some channels will play a small riff.
Listening to 1/4,2/4 or 3/4 of a "fill in" for all organs, maybe won't make any musical "sense" and maybe it won't sound good.You cannot "cut" a riff in...pieces.

I guess that's why the style triggers in this case just the drum channels.

...

Hi panos.

A fill-in is a ONE measure of a style and depends on what measure type it has. (2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, 6/8, etc).
The style are NOT only organ style. I say it and I will say it, ANY of the arrangers in the world are sold in any of the world countries. There are a LOT of countries that does not play at least 1 style with organs. It simply does not play that type of instrument in that country (are a lot, I tell you, I know). The most part of the styles are Guitar based and Piano based. So hitting button later is not so good for performer when drums stops playing and other channels plays
This is ONLY an implementation that Yamaha perpetuates, they brought from a model to another, and they grown it up a little bit in the last 100 years (I'm joking  ). But the basis are the same. The same 16 channels, the same 8 hidden channels. Some good improvements from SFF1 to SFF2. All of these are written in Jorgen Sorensen site in detail.

Regards,
Vali

[panos]

Sorry I 've been misunderstood.
When I was referring to "organs" I meant any kind of musical instrument
(I was lost in the translation,that's how we call them in my language in short  )

A "fill in" can be always as long as one single bar in sheet music no matter what the rhythm is (2/2,2/3,all the rest rhythms) as you said.

If you don't press it in beat 1, is even shorter than a bar.

So in this, lets 's say "fill in bar", there can be a riff from an electric guitar,a small arpeggio from a piano,a  G-C-E chord instead of a C-G-E chord of a pad, a brass that uses a note with the modulation wheel etc.
And every of these follow at least the basic chord types.
These things cannot be broken in pieces.
You can not have half playing of the arpeggio when you trigger the "fill in" at half of the bar (at beat 2 of 4/4, for an example).

If there is another way to make things work better just by using the Main Style part of the keyboard, I don't know.
I am not a professional style maker but if you miss the "right" spot I don't thing you can turn back time to hear the whole riff.
Maybe there could be programmed alternative shorter riffs that would play only in these cases? 
If Yamaha could make it's styles to sound better but the engineer's don't do it because they get bored of making better styles,I don't know it either. 

If I want variety in the style parts, I just keep adding registration buttons to the song.
Not an easy thing to do but to tell you the truth sometimes I don't really mind that much what the ...."guitarist" may have in mind to play in a single (or less) bar for the "fill in".
But sometimes I do care for a specific riff that's why I said it might be better to keep your finger down for sure by the end of the previous bar.

[valimaties]

I don't know how Korg solved this (internally, in software function), but is working very well hitting button in any time of measure... And they have four types of CUE for each fill:

• Immediate, first measure - will start playing the fill from the beat which was when was hit and variation will starts from the beginning when fill ends (this is what Yamaha uses, but with that limitation of playing only the drums if you won't hit at the beginning of the measure)
• Immediate, current measure - the same as above, only when fill ends playing, variation will playing from the measure fill ends
• Next measure, current measure  - which means it will starts playing on the beginning of the next measure and will continue the variation from the measure it remains from the all variation measures.
  For example: Your variation has 8 measures of 4/4. If you hit on the 2nd beat of 3rd measure, the fill in will start playing when the 4th measure starts. Supposing Fill was recorded on 2 measures, after fill ends play, the variation will continue playing from 6th measure.
• Next measure, first measure - the same as above, only when fill ends playing, variation will starts from the first measure (This is the implementation of Intros on Yamaha)

This is a perfect approach for fill. And you can set as you want!

Regards,
Vali