Save my "Behind"

[elad770]

This question is addressed to those who use Genos with its original stand or to all those who experience the following:

My buttocks really hearts! 

I'm unable to find a comfortable chair/seat or anything to seat on

A. Comfortably - A good quality cushion
B. High Enough to position my hands properly
C. Low enough to use a Foot Controler

Can you please suggest/offer or share what are you using at home/Gigs. Can you upload some pictures? (Of the chair! Not the Buttocks)

I purchased until now TWO sperate chairs and they are not comfortable!

Got this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZZRQQ61/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hardly accommodate my behind (I'm at Normal weight)

And then i got this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Boss-Office-Products-B245-BK-Medical/dp/B0019QF7JI/ref=sr_1_18_sspa?keywords=musician+seat&qid=1561425490&s=gateway&sr=8-18-spons&psc=1

This was a nightmare and i actually had to remove the backrest

I'm so lost! Please help! 

[Eric, B]

I have this one:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HT741B--tama-ergo-rider-quartet-with-backrest-black
Saves my back and butt.
Play for hours without problem.
Love it. 
Eric

[travlin-easy]

I modified my Quik Lok DX749 Deluxe by changing out the seat with a larger platform by adding an additional 4 inches all the way around, then doubling the thickness of the foam to 4 inches on the seat. Made a huge difference and my back and butt loved it. https://www.amazon.com/Quik-DX749-Deluxe-Seat-Black/dp/B008FJXGU4/ref=asc_df_B008FJXGU4/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312246661089&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14683520972830266282&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007820&hvtargid=pla-448694565106&psc=1

Gary

[Stijn]

I use a simple piano stool.
Adjustable, stable, wide and soft.
And not too expensive.

Maybe not so well suited for gigs.....

Stijn

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[EileenL]

I still use an old Technics organ stool which is nicely padded. For Gigs I use an quickly collapsible Stag Stool which has a four inch Padding and is very comfortable.

[Lee Batchelor]

Elad, there's more to surviving on a piano bench or chair for a prolonged gig or concert than just buying a quality chair . Let's look at the cause.

Can you describe your posture while at the Genos? I'm not an expert but something tells me you may be over-flexing your gluteus muscles (butt muscles) to compensate for incorrect posture. You may also be placing too much weight on a certain part of the gluteus muscles. Sore muscles are often caused by inadequate blood flow. Chances are if your posture is incorrect, you could spend a lot of money on a bench or chair that would not help. With the correct posture, you could get away with a moderately priced chair or bench.

This may be a helpful link:
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjC9oWux4TjAhVTJ80KHVXaA2QQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.piano-play-it.com%2Fcorrect-posture.html&psig=AOvVaw3aWNo0ok97WyQ9PgaxkvfW&ust=1561549505337363

[Lee Batchelor]

I've used the bench that was posted by Stijn. It's very nice but not very portable because it doesn't fold up. Great for home use though!

[elad770]

Elad, there's more to surviving on a piano bench or chair for a prolonged gig or concert than just buying a quality chair . Let's look at the cause.

Can you describe your posture while at the Genos? I'm not an expert but something tells me you may be over-flexing your gluteus muscles (butt muscles) to compensate for incorrect posture. You may also be placing too much weight on a certain part of the gluteus muscles. Sore muscles are often caused by inadequate blood flow. Chances are if your posture is incorrect, you could spend a lot of money on a bench or chair that would not help. With the correct posture, you could get away with a moderately priced chair or bench.

This may be a helpful link:
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjC9oWux4TjAhVTJ80KHVXaA2QQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.piano-play-it.com%2Fcorrect-posture.html&psig=AOvVaw3aWNo0ok97WyQ9PgaxkvfW&ust=1561549505337363

The tutorial is very powerful and thank you everyone for your imput.

I'm beginning to suspect that the Genos Stand is simply to High!

If I'm Following all the currect posture technices the Genos is simply to high

I think i need a different stand. Something that can go Lower

What do you think?

[StuartR]

I have three of these in my music "studio". They are very comfortable. They are height adjustable and fold up for
storage/transport:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0016OIIX0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_O1GeDbXHZVS6F

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Elad. It's difficult to assess the correct stand height without seeing you at your Genos. At this point, I would experiment with different heights - specifically ones that keep your back straight and arms in the correct position. The danger in a keyboard stand being too low is, the tendency to curve your back and lean over the keyboard. Doing so opens up another can of worms .

Perhaps try sitting up straight on your bench away from the Genos making sure your feet are flat on the floor and pretend to play the Genos. Do this for about 10 minutes or so and see how your butt muscles feel. If they are fine, then add the real Genos. If the muscles get sore, then the keyboard height may be incorrect.

Perhaps several members can post the heights of their Genos key beds versus their bench heights? I know there are several variables, not the least of which, is waist to shoulder heights - but it's a start. Perhaps post those figures as well?

[jimlaing]

I have used Pedal Steel player seats for ~20+ years now.  They are slightly higher than a piano bench, perfect (for me and my height anyway) for playing pedals when I did that, and for using foot switches etc.  And, they have storage inside to put your small items (Cables, adapters, etc.).  I used to use one called "Pac-a-seat" or something like that; have used Steeler's Choice seats, and now I use a Walker seat.  These can all be found via Web searches.  I can try to take and post a photo sometime ...

Jim

[overover]

I use this "Multi Purpose Stool" from the German company "K & M" (König & Meyer):

https://www.thomann.de/gb/km_stehhilfe.htm

Best regards,
Chris

[Lloyd E]

I have the piano bench that stijn sent you a picture of.  Comfortable with storage in the bench and it's adjustable for height.  I have a bad back and this works for me.  I have had this bench a few years so I
know it works for me.  Hope you find the right one for your "behind".   Lloyd

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Seldom has a thread made me as happy as this one. Attached is how I play at gigs. For me it is important to be able to move all the time to keep my feet happy and not having to raise my head in order to have the all important eye-contact with the dancers.  In the studio I use a normal office typists chair on which the seat can be adjusted in height and - very important - the seat can be adjusted not to tilt backwards but slighly forwards. My physioterapist  (for 15 years I have seen her once a week) says, "Never keep sitting for more than 15 minutes. You may stand for hours until you are 90 if you all the time keep moving your feet and body.

Cheers

Kaarlo

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[Toril S]

I use an x stand when gigging, and just ask for a chair at the venue, a chair without armrests, BUT with back rest! Then I just adjust the stand to fit. At home I use an office chair whit wheels. No armrests, but support for my back. When playing, I have to lean forward all the time to see the display, so it is very important to be able to lean back and relax.

[Lee Batchelor]

Great pic, Kaarlo!! I want that tie!

[travlin-easy]

Many, many years ago, I learned that your forearms should be parallel to the floor when playing the piano or keyboard. Not only does it save your back, but also takes a lot of the pressure off your wrists.

Kaarlo, I am just 78 years of age, but I have a very bad back, three herniated discs in my lower back, one in my neck, and nephropathy in my feet. I tried standing for about two years while on stage, then realized that I was exacerbating the problems and the pain was excruciating. That's when I went to the chair with an adjustable foot rest, seat height and back rest - problem solved. I continued to play for another 20 years before my body gave out.  I would bet some big bucks that your physioterapist  spends more time sitting than she does standing.

And, I am surprised that you are not using a headset mic. The problem I, and many others, encountered with a boom mic is that it is never where you want it to be, especially if you are dancing around the keyboard while singing.

Good luck,

Gary

[alanclare]

I too was taught that the correct seat height should be when your forearms and the back of your hands are both parallel to the floor, and your fingers pointing down onto the keys.

Incidentally, having owned my s970 for more than 3 years, a few days ago I played it for the first time whilst standing up (I had moved the seat while the carpet was being cleaned). I was surprised how much brighter and clearer the screen display became. Are these instruments designed to be played from this position?

Alan

[EB5AGV]

Interesting thread!
My Genos sits over a bench I built for other purposes, so it has the standard height of a regular table, around 75cm. So the usual piano seat would be too low. I got this stool:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_st_95.htm

I set the height for a good posture and then the feet rest. I can play for hours without problem with this setup.
For the sustain pedal I have attached it to a metal PC monitor support so it stays at a good height to be used from the stool seated position. I can elaborate on this, including some pictures, if someone is interested.

[valimaties]

I use K&M Spider Pro Silver as keyboard stand, which is height-adjustable, and I put a sign after I test on couple of gigs.
I use QuickLok DX-749 stool


You can adjust the seat and also the backrest. The backrest I always adjust to position on my lumbar 
I have also removed footrest because it bothers me .

Regards,
Vali

[DonM]

For thirty years, I've used a drafting stool, from Office Depot.  I'm on my third or fourth one, I guess they are good for ten years or so.  It is comfortable, has rollers, and the height is adjustable to your preference.
I have even used it for a dolly at times!
They around a hundred dollars, and worth every penny. 
It does not fold up so if you are moving a lot you need a fairly big space in your vehicle to transport it. 

[DrakeM]

Interesting thread read going on here.

I moved from playing a guitar to the keyboard and was used to standing when performing.

So, I stand when playing, practicing and working on a style creation at the keyboard. When I first began I thought about using a "bar stool" (as best to describe it). I could still stand at the keyboard and if I needed to I could sit on the stool and be seated and yet it still looked like I was standing. I only played one gig with it but never sat on it once and never used it that way again. It is back in the kitchen breakfast nook were we have two of them.

They sell them at Walmart and they are wooden. You can cut off the legs to adjust the height if needed. 

I am just used to standing and moving my legs to keep time with the music. Old habit I guess.

Regards
Drake

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

...forearms should be parallel to the floor when playing the piano or keyboard....

... three herniated discs in my lower back, one in my neck, and nephropathy in my feet. ....an adjustable foot rest, seat height and back rest - problem solved. I continued to play for another 20 years before my body gave out.  I would bet some big bucks that your physioterapist  spends more time sitting than she does standing.

And, I am surprised that you are not using a headset mic. The problem I, and many others, encountered with a boom mic is that it is never where you want it to be, especially if you are dancing around the keyboard while singing.

Good luck,

Gary

Hi Gary
So sorry it seems you have my problems and then some. I do not have disc problems but worsening polyneuropathy in my extremities, (feeling disappearing like in nephropathy)  it started showing up also in my fingers last year. 
My stand is 36 " high so the keys of the Genos actually are high enough to have my hands in the correct position. The photo may show that incorrectly just like the dancer who took the it asked me to take away the head set mic of the Roland 7 vocalizer I use in addition to the Genos harmony in order to have a fuller harmony.

But now dear Gary to the point where I can make big bucks:  I was there to-day as always on Wednesdays and said, "I have in well over a decade never ever seen you sitting, I know you are an excellent golfer (handicap 7),  travel to ski in Zermatt,  walk the "levadas da Madeira". Can I bet big bucks you practically never sit. She smiled YES, I do live as I teach, close the bet for 10.000. €

Cheers

Kaarlo

[travlin-easy]

Kaarlo, the check is in the mail!

Cheers,

Gary

[jimlaing]

Hi - so here are a couple of pictures of my pedal steel player's seat that I wrote about earlier in this thread ...
-Jim

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[KeyboardByBiggs]

That's pretty sweet! Is that foam in the seat pretty squishy and comfy?

[StuartR]

Hi - so here are a couple of pictures of my pedal steel player's seat that I wrote about earlier in this thread ...
-Jim

Truly a great idea Jim. Thanks for sharing!

Stuart.

[jimlaing]

Hi - I find that the foam / pad on this seat is very comfortable, and I'm not a "lightweight" guy!  :-)
It's somewhat firm and not like a "wimpy" (or "too squishy") piece of foam; supports the "behind" comfortably.

My older one, which I shipped up to Boston for my small rig I keep up there, was also very comfortable and lasted 20 years or more.  These aren't "cheap" in price, but a good one will last a long time (And be very functional) ...

My current one is made by Walker Seats. . . my old one was, I think, a Steeler's Choice seat.

Jim

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi

I stumbled accross another chair
It has all the mod cons.
Yo can even put your music sheets in the mesh tray underneath.
It allows you to roll back and forth between computer and keyboard and is well equiped with brakes when you are working at pace.

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[Eric, B]

 
I gotta get one of those asap. 
Great find.
Thanks
Eric