Step Arrangement Input/Recording

[Salleke]

Hello and greetings to all,

I'm new to this forum and  have a problem. Hopefully someone can help me.
Please excuse my so, so inglish, I live in Belgium.

I'm looking to buy a good arranger keyboard to create backing tracks for our choir.
But the problem is that in our choir we don't have a piano or keyboard player.

So we are lloking for an arranger keyboard/module that has the possibility to enter
chords and select style, tempo, fill in, intro, outro and so one, step by step in
the keyboard or arranger module.

For example:

Measure 1 beat 1 select style.
Measure 1 beat 2 select intro.
Measure 1 beat 3 select tempo.
Measure 2 beat 1 play C chord.
Measure 3 beat 1 play G7 chord

------------------------------------

Measure 100 beat 1 play outro.

Like Varranger, BAND IN A BOX and other software arrangers but with much
better quality and more/better realistic styles.

Can a Yamaha keyboard do that or is there an arranger module tha can do that?

I hope I have explained my problem clearly.

Thank you all in advance.

Greetings,

Salleke.

[Denn]

That is a big question. The PSR S900 and up and the Tyros range can do this but it is very time consuming. Too much to explain on this post. I have a DVD which explains all the procedures.
Regards, Denn

Dat is een grote vraag. De PSR S900 en hoger en het Tyros-assortiment kunnen dit, maar het is erg tijdrovend. Te veel om uit te leggen in dit bericht. Ik heb een dvd die alle procedures uitlegt.
Met vriendelijke groet, Denn

[mikf]

Possible on all the upper end PSRs as but a very tedious thing to do, as Denn said. And not sure you will be happy with the results, not because of the quality of the arranger styles or sounds, but because it's musically quite limiting to do it this way. You really need lead lines laid over the style, properly customized intros etc to sound decent.  Probably would be much better to find a musician who will create mp3s for you to use as backing tracks. Better still  - find a good accompanist!
Mike

[DerekA]

It's actually not that hard to use the 'quick record' feature to record an accompaniment track. You don't need to be a great keyboard player. Intros, fills, etc. can be called up at the touch of a button, and chords can be selected using one (or two) fingers.

The best bit for you, though, is that you can record it through at slow speed then play it back at whatever speed you want.

However I would agree with Mike that you'd not be using the arranger to anything like its full capabilities. So to keep the cost down, either go for an older used PSR-S model (plenty available) or an S670 in the new range.

[mikf]

Agree with Derek. Its so easy to do quick record on the arranger, and then edit it if required that I can never understand why anyone wants to do step record.
Mike

[Salleke]

Thank you all very much for the help and the good advise on my question.
I was not aware that it would be so difficult and time consuming.

Let me ask another question please.

If I set the keyboard to split at C4 and I create a MIDI file in my DAW,
keeping all chords notes under the C4.

Then I send the created MIDI file via MIDI in into the the keyboard, would the
created MIDI file then trigger the keyboard to play the chords in the choosen style?

Thanks again for your help.

Salleke.

[Wim NL]

Step record is also easy and fast.
No mistakes,  pressies fill ins etc., tempo changes,  difficult chord.
When have a steprecord file, choose another style and you have a new song.

[Henry Millbrook]

Dear Mr. Salleke
I have not used Chord Step before so decided to give it a try.
This method seems ideal for what you want.
I looked in the manual to see how it was done. I timed how long it took me to set up a tune like you asked. It took me 17 minutes to set the chords for a 20-bar hymn (or measure) and 40 more seconds for the keyboard, a Tyros, to encode it for use.  With practice I would expect to be faster.

Hope this helps, Henry Millbrook

[Salleke]

Hello Henry,

Thank you for your efforts and the heads up for the solution on my problem.
I will see if I can find a good Tyros (3-4-5)  or PSR 775 or 975 second hand.

Greetings, Salleke.

[Salleke]

Thank you all for the much appreciated help and explanations.

This is a very friendly forum.

Salleke.

[Wim NL]

What gerne is your choir.?

[mikf]

It took me 17 minutes to set the chords for a 20-bar hymn (or measure) and 40 more seconds for the keyboard,

To each his own, but a quick record should take only a couple of minutes, and the step record would not really be a proper accompaniment track. There would be no intro, no ending. Yes you could add a 'canned ' intro from the style but it's very unlikely to be suitable for the hymn. You need someone to play a suitable intro and ending on quick record. Buying a Tyros without anyone who can play it seems a funny way to go about making accompaniment tracks.
Mike

[Salleke]

What gerne is your choir.?

Our choir is a Seniorchoir that sings populair songs and light classical also populair songs.
We don't have a special genre. We sing what we like and sing in 5 lingauges.

We are no professionals but we try to do it as good as possible.

[Salleke]

To each his own, but a quick record should take only a couple of minutes, and the step record would not really be a proper accompaniment track. There would be no intro, no ending. Yes you could add a 'canned ' intro from the style but it's very unlikely to be suitable for the hymn. You need someone to play a suitable intro and ending on quick record. Buying a Tyros without anyone who can play it seems a funny way to go about making accompaniment tracks.
Mike

We ware thinking the same thing and therefore we will try to make a backing track on
a Tyros (or another keyboard) before buying one. If, like you say, it's not what we want
and expect, we will try to find someone who would do this for us at a moderate price.

We talked to several backing tracks creators but the prices ar beyond our possibilities.
We hope we can solve our problem in a good way.

Salleke.

[beykock]

Hi S. from Belgium,

I think you do not need an arranger keyboard for your particular application(s).

What about midi files ?
Most popular songs are available in midi format and can be completely edited ( track by track ) in your pc ( DAW ) .

After you have finished your complete editing job, you can easily convert each midi song to an MP3 format or another audio format.

The sky is the limit and you will save a lot of money.😉

Regards, Babette

[Salleke]

Hi S. from Belgium,

I think you do not need an arranger keyboard for your particular application(s).

What about midi files ?
Most popular songs are available in midi format and can be completely edited ( track by track ) in your pc ( DAW ) .

After you have finished your complete editing job, you can easily convert each midi song to an MP3 format or another audio format.

The sky is the limit and you will save a lot of money.😉

Regards, Babette

Hello Babette,

We have tried and played with MIDI files for a while, but the problem is
that you need a good MIDI sound module/expander.
And as we all know that is not so cheap.

But the wurst part is that many MIDI file needs alot of time consuming editing.
There are nice MIDI files but we almost never find the right one.
Specially the songs that are old and populair in our country.

Our plan was to buy a decent keyboard (second hand) so we could play
our songs and MIDI files in a good maner. And have the possibility to create our
own backing tracks for the songs that we do not find or tha are not good for playing.

Thank you for the help,

Salleke.

[beykock]

Hi Salleke ( never heard that name before ) :

Might be the best solution.

Hope you have the intention to buy a Yamaha keyboard though.
You will not be disappointed.

Good luck, Babette

[jillhumb]

Hello from Florida!  I have been using arranger keyboards for many years, and recently upgraded to a PSR S970.  A few months go I was asked by my church to design the music and play/sing for their new 11 oclock service.  I amplaying a mix of standard hymns with a more upbeat feel, and newer christian contemporary songs.
I have used the quick record several times to use as a backing track with great success.
I also use midi files quite frequently, especially for some of the newer christian rock.  I almost always make changes to any midi files I use, which is quite easy to do on my 970.  I delete certain tracks, change instruments, lower volume levels, etc.
Hope this helps!

Jill

[Salleke]

Hello from Florida!  I have been using arranger keyboards for many years, and recently upgraded to a PSR S970.  A few months go I was asked by my church to design the music and play/sing for their new 11 oclock service.  I amplaying a mix of standard hymns with a more upbeat feel, and newer christian contemporary songs.
I have used the quick record several times to use as a backing track with great success.
I also use midi files quite frequently, especially for some of the newer christian rock.  I almost always make changes to any midi files I use, which is quite easy to do on my 970.  I delete certain tracks, change instruments, lower volume levels, etc.
Hope this helps!

Jill

Hello Jill,

You write that you have used quick record several times. Do you mean real live playing and
recording youre performance.

Or do you mean step recording and then recording the song after finishing the step input?

Thank you.

[Salleke]

Hi Salleke ( never heard that name before ) :

Might be the best solution.

Hope you have the intention to buy a Yamaha keyboard though.
You will not be disappointed.

Good luck, Babette

Hello Babette,

If we buy a keyboard it will most certenly be a Yamaha.

My name is Salvio, an Italian name, and my familie calls me Sal but now that
I'm old and grey, and petite and ... and ... they call me Salleke.

But don't tell anyone ... 

Thank you.

Salleke ... 

[mikf]

Quick record is where you switch on record and play live. It is a term out of the keyboard manual.
Step recording is a manual input by typing.
Mike

[jillhumb]

I am doing Live recording, which is quick recording.  Hope this helps!



Jill

[EileenL]

Hi Salleke,
  I don't think many people on here use Step Record. It takes to long and the music will lack any feeling just being put in one note at a time.

[Wim NL]

The topic is about chord steprecord, complete chords etc...
Not single notes.
Even in track steprecord is multiple notes posable.

[pwi1000]

Hello Salleke,

there is a free program (called Producer) which can create a step record file and insert the chords on the PC, instead on the keyboard.

If your keyboard is connected to the PC you can also play the step record file on the PC and get the sound from the keyboard.

You can find more information about Producer on my website:

http://www.wierzba.homepage.t-online.de/producer/producermain.htm

Best regards,
Peter

[mikf]

Hello Salleke,

there is a free program (called Producer) which can create a step record file and insert the chords on the PC, instead on the keyboard

Yes, but what you have then is a very basic track. To produce an interesting accompaniment you need a musician, not just data.
Mike

[pwi1000]

Hello Mike,

of course, just entering some chord data does not necessarily lead to a full featured accompaniment.
My answer was related to the question in the initial post:

... to enter chords and select style, tempo, fill in, intro, outro and so one, step by step...

For example:

Measure 1 beat 1 select style.
Measure 1 beat 2 select intro.
Measure 1 beat 3 select tempo.
Measure 2 beat 1 play C chord.
Measure 3 beat 1 play G7 chord

------------------------------------

Measure 100 beat 1 play outro.

Like Varranger, BAND IN A BOX and other software arrangers but with much
better quality and more/better realistic styles.

And this is exactly what you can do with Producer, and even more.

The styles are played on the keyboard, not on the PC, so you can use any style which is supported by your keyboard (internal and external).
And as it works using a midi file, you can modify and extend it with a sequencer at any phase.

Peter

[mikf]

Peter
I think the early replies all indicated that you can do this directly on the keyboard or using PC software as an aid as you say. But that it would never be very good as an accompaniment track and buying  a keyboard just to do this without someone who is a musician that can play a proper intro, either live or saved as a recording, is not a very good idea . The results would not be great.
Mike

[panos]

Buying a keyboard,a pc, a pc program, a couple of modules....
Nobody knows how to play the keyboard,how the pc program works,what is a module...
I think "buying" a musician may cost less 

Salvio,why don't you ask from someone to record some hymns with his keyboard and then you can play them on a cd player like people do with "karaoke"?

He can record a midi,do some minor changes with the song creator to fix or change some stuff etc.
I don't know of course how much it will cost and if the kind of hymns in your church is different from the kind of hymns let's say Jil is playing in Florida.

[Salleke]

Hello to all,

First of all a big thank you to all te members here who have helpt us.

Now we have alot of info and we will see all options to find the one that will work for our choir.

Our choir will rejoin in september, that give us some time to see all options.

Again, thank you very much.

Salvio.