Registration and voice levels

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
I would like to hear thoughts on  how others keep all their registrations and voices at same levels as not to keep reaching for master volume knob.
I find it quite a fiddle getting all songs at same levels.
I always come back another day and carry on tweaking channels.
How do performers that play gigs get on with that??

All the Best
John

[acparker]

It's a real pain, that's for sure.

I play for our church, and there are some pieces, like the Gloria, that are used every week.  Using that as a basis, I try to balance the overall volume for the other hymns by ear.  That works ok, but as I said, is a bit of a pain.  And I still have to vary the volume on the master knob depending on how strongly/loudly the congregation is singing. 

My secular (non-church) music volumes are all over the place.  I've startled myself sometimes by the sudden loudness.

[EileenL]

Have you tried using a swell pedal to adjust the volume quickly.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
I am not the only one then .

I started today with two song registrations and got the drums and bass for a bright song and a slow quiter song to the same standard loudness level of 12:10 on the clock of the volume knob.
I will have to call that the ceiling for making registrations.
Once that is done it is a matter of getting all the other parts to gel.
It is a pain as some sounds need upping in volume in voice edit and saving in user bank. Also some sounds need taking down in volume quite a bit.
It is a slow jobby though .

Hi Eileen
I was just saying about the standard of the levels of each registration.
It is worth getting all levels pre-done as not to keep as you say adjusting. SWELL That!!
I do not want songs that i like playing going up and down like on TV with programmes and adverts
Now the tv in future will have to comply with LUFC so you do not have to keep reaching for the remote control when yer lugs are blown off!!
Looking forward to getting Sampletank Max today.



all the best
john

[pjd]

Hi John --

I play along with audio backing tracks, some commercially recorded and some mixed and recorded from MIDI (by me). Thus, there is variability in the audio level from song to song.

My registration buttons call up the audio file, main voices, style (for alternative voices via OTS) and the mixer settings. The mixer settings determine the voice vs. backing track balance (levels).

In order to get the balance consistent, the Genos is driving a mixer with a decent VU meter. I tweaked the Genos master volume and mixer settings to get and show an appropriate reference 0dB level. As I play through my repertoire registrations, I set the audio song level (i.e., the backing track level) to produce a 0dB level and save the new setting in the registration.

I'm using the meter because if I try to set the backing level by ear alone, ear fatigue makes me slowly push the song level up! Then, the levels will no longer be consistent and I subconsciously chase higher levels (the old "louder is better" syndrome).

Hope this helps -- pj
 

[pjd]

I've startled myself sometimes by the sudden loudness.

Hi --

I feel your pain!    I play in church, too, and fear cold entrances (e.g., playing a solo exposed flute line with our accompanist on piano). It's embarrassing to come in too loud.

I cannot live without an expression pedal (FC7) for volume control. Our group (me+piano+guitar) try to play with dynamics and I have to constantly vary volume. In the case of coming in too loud, I reflexively kill my volume. (Still embarrassed.) 

All the best -- pj

[EileenL]

Yes the expression pedal can come in very useful at times because you can adjust to what you want it to do. If you just want it controlling Right one or the whole keyboard or just style it is very versatile.

[Lee Batchelor]

John, I started a thread about this a while back. I have the same issue - trying to just select the Registrations and have them all sound about the same in volume. This seems to be a nearly impossible task. I'm always tweaking volumes in my studio, saving the updated Registration, only to find out that all my work was in vain for the next gig. No matter what, it seems we must all be prepared to do some last minute adjustments to the various levels "on the fly." What a major pain when you're tying to concentrate on just getting the notes right!!!!! In one gig, the drums and bass are perfect. The next gig, you're killing people with bass and drums. Beats the heck out of me .

I know room responses are a factor, however, all that SHOULD be needed is just a slight drop in Master volume. This is SELDOM enough. I always have the Mixer displayed in my Genos, so I can alter various part volumes just so I don't anger my crowd. Shouldn't have to do this. Never had to with my old PSR3000. What changed, besides the enormous price tag and ridiculous Canadian taxes!!??

[Enildo]

Hello everybody!
I play, on average, one event per week in my region, and I also have this problem, each place has its acoustic differences and this will influence what we hear.
I'm always increasing or lowering the volume of some "play." I think that's normal, even the big bands have "messers" (mixer man), who regulate these details.
I do not see this as a defect or bad programming of the keyboards, but rather as an adaptation that we have to do in each place.

Good luck!
Enildo

[EileenL]

Many use a well adjusted midi file which they have played using there settings and pop in when they get to a venue. A walk round the hall gives them a good judgement of how it will sound and then adjust accordingly.

[panos]

If I was gigging (of course I don't and no intend to  ) at home I would try to make all styles,voices,regs to sound quite similar by using as much as possible flat equalizer.
Yes they wouldn't sound alive at the moment but when I will "trigger" better EQ settings at least I will know that if a frequency exaggerates it would be to all styles/voices etc.
The closer and flatter the frequencies are the hardiest is for a sound to exagurate so much.
Of course this is just for when tweaking the styles,voices,midis to save them.
After doing this also you can then adjust the Eq settings for the sounds to be also alive in your home.

I have the preset styles on my keyboard that don't sound so alive at flat settings.
The styles of the euro dance pack are having more effects and sound more alive with flat settings.
(You can see at style panel +30 brightness  +20 at high frequencies etc).
So when I am trying to make the preset styles more alive with better EQ settings at high and low frequencies,
the euro dance styles will have parts that are sound too high and exagerate because they already have high and low frequencies that are at a high level by default.

I don't know if you can understand my "greek" but all i am trying to say is that different styles/voices/midis have their own different default EQ settings and that is what is causing the problem in my opinion except from the fact that styles etc are by default at different volumes.

Psr3000 probably didn't have so advanced mixer,EQ settings etc so the problem with sounds trying to be "the star of the night" wasn't that obvious.

[Lee Batchelor]

I wonder if using the Master-->Compressor settings would help. Compressors are supposed to bring up weak parts but keep really loud parts at bay. To date, I've always used the Natural setting. Perhaps this is not enough? Maybe I need to try the Rich setting? Opinions?