Different drum kit volume for style and Right...

[alfaholic]

Hello everyone,

I made two drum kits, then adjusted volume in COMMON settings in YEM for both to have the same listening level. When playing them inside YEM everything sounds good, both have the same loudness. Then I install the pack into Genos, play both drum kits in Right 1 and both have the same loudness as before in YEM. Then I use both drum kits in the same style, on the same drum track and one is louder than another. The question is why?

I tested multiple things, measured RMS, LUFS, and peak levels for both drum kits, everything is almost identical. Then I tested Volume slider in COMMON inside YEM, maybe this does not work in styles but only in Right's, and yes this .
Does anyone has any idea what Yamaha did to make our lives miserable, or is there something I am doing wrong? 

[Normanfernandez]

Are you creating Audio Drums ??
Or is it Regular Drumming Styles?

[alfaholic]

Thanks. As I said, two drum kits. Regular GM drum kits.

[Normanfernandez]

Did you try to Adjust the Levels in Style Creator?

Within the keyboard.

[alfaholic]

Yes, that works as it should.

[panos]

I don't know about Yem (my model is older) but I think you still can go to style creator's edit menu and adjust the volumes of the individual notes for the style's part.
If the problem is to create a pack I don't know about these things.

[alfaholic]

Thanks. Yes, it is about creating a pack. The problem is in Yamaha's logic, common settings are used only in Right's, while ignored in style. The same is with Tyros 2, 3, and 4 and Voice Editor, when you set VOLUME in COMMON it works only in Right, not in style.

[panos]

Probably disabled for luck of polyphony or something?
If a variation has 8 parts,3 voices and 4 pads with full of effects will be able a keyboard to play all these effects?
Just a thought I don't know technical things but when I adjust the styl psrts with the effects that the keyboard let me in the remixing console,sometimes l can hear my keyboard playing like it was running a marathon and is short of breathe.

[alfaholic]

Nothing to do with poliphony, it is just amplification and signal path, they simply decided to separate right's and style, which has no sense. The logic says that voice loudness should be as you set it in YEM no matter you use the voice as Right 1 or ACC track in style.
Always some trouble with Yamaha... 😀

[Bachus]

Nothing to do with poliphony, it is just amplification and signal path, they simply decided to separate right's and style, which has no sense. The logic says that voice loudness should be as you set it in YEM no matter you use the voice as Right 1 or ACC track in style.
Always some trouble with Yamaha... 😀

There is voice settings as in edditing the voice (Yem)
And there is mixing, adapting the voice/track to the style/song/performance

Both are 2 sepperate things..
They both are extremely important..
It allows you to adapt the voice to the sound spectrum of the style/song/performance

[alfaholic]

Thank you, but this is not what I am asking.

The problem is with common settings in YEM, when voice/drum kit is used on Right common settings are applied. When voice/drum kit is used in style common settings are ignored.

This means that any sound with some settings made in common section will not work the same in Right and in style.

[valimaties]

"Common" settings are NOT only for Right part. Common settings are general settings for all elements in voice. The setting in common are applied to all samples/layers/elements in your voice.
Something else is happening.

What I have understood from your post:

You have as this:
DrumKit 1 - level of volume in common was set to 127 (ex)
Drumkit 2 - level of volume in common was set to 100 (samples too loud, do you have adjusted the common volume to sound the same as DrumKit 1)

In style, Drum Kit 2 common volume is reset to 127 (or omitted ) and sound louder than Drum Kit 1.

This is what is happening, yes?

PS: Did you set an Effect in YEM Voice common settings? Could be a change of an effect made by style settings to Rhythm channel, and that could give you the louder effect to voice .

[alfaholic]

Thank you. Yes, you understood well.

I hope you are right so I did something wrong, however all my testing shows the same, common section is ignored in style, both volume and velocity settings.
You are right, common settings are general settings for all elements in voice, this setting in common are applied to all samples/layers/elements in voice or drum kit, however those settings are ignored if voice or drum kit is used in style.

Effects are the first I checked, everything is turned off and set to thru, both drum kits are made the same way, both with exactly the same values in YEM , the only difference is the RMS loudness of the samples between those two drum kits so one is set to 100, while other one is at 117 in common section, which results one being louder in style while both being the same in Right.

I did some testing with both, voices and drum kits and in both cases style simply ignores settings made in common section.
Yamaha uses 100 as their default value for common volume, and everything else should be done on oscillators/elements in regular voices, or with every key in drum kit, which makes this process very slow if you have many sounds, like I do.

[valimaties]

Thank you. Yes, you understood well.

I hope you are right so I did something wrong, however all my testing shows the same, common section is ignored in style, both volume and velocity settings.
You are right, common settings are general settings for all elements in voice, this setting in common are applied to all samples/layers/elements in voice or drum kit, however those settings are ignored if voice or drum kit is used in style.

Effects are the first I checked, everything is turned off and set to thru, both drum kits are made the same way, both with exactly the same values in YEM , the only difference is the RMS loudness of the samples between those two drum kits so one is set to 100, while other one is at 117 in common section, which results one being louder in style while both being the same in Right.

I did some testing with both, voices and drum kits and in both cases style simply ignores settings made in common section.
Yamaha uses 100 as their default value for common volume, and everything else should be done on oscillators/elements in regular voices, or with every key in drum kit, which makes this process very slow if you have many sounds, like I do.

Something is telling me that expression control in style channel is overwriting common setting. Go to style channel in step edit and delete expression control from the beginning of channel (on each part of style). Try this and tell me if is the same result after that!

Regards,
Vali

[alfaholic]

Thank you. I tried that of course, made totally empty style without, and again with the same CC07 and CC11 values, it still ignores common settings.
It would be nice if I did something wrong, however I doubt that is the case. Yamaha simply decided to ignore common section in styles.

Now I am thinking about all those drum kits I sampled for Roland previously without so much limiting in my signal chain, because Roland has its internal +6db or +12db amplification with soft limiter for every file, so there is no need to squash the files to get the same RMS as factory drum samples. The result is much bigger, and healthier sound, with better transients, thicker sound, better low end, and so on, the difference is huge. Now I can not make those files louder for Yamaha other than process them again with limiter, and that will make everything sound worse than before. That is why I find this problematic. Other sounds are ok, I can make them louder at element level, but drum samples are very different because of the strong transient.

[valimaties]

Thank you. I tried that of course, made totally empty style without, and again with the same CC07 and CC11 values, it still ignores common settings.
It would be nice if I did something wrong, however I doubt that is the case. Yamaha simply decided to ignore common section in styles.

You made me very curious I will try myself tonight, write now I'm at working place!

Regards,
Vali

[alfaholic]

Thank you, I really appreciate your help. This is some advanced editing territory and not many people knows a lot about it, it is great when you find more people willing to waste their lives on this.