Is this normal?

[elad770]

When I play piano (I only checked piano sounds)
One of the keys , literally only one is making some distortion sounds when reaching a high peak. I was wondering If someone encountered this issue. I will try to attach a sound file and repeat what I was Doing that caused it

[Lee Batchelor]

I have experienced this too. Please tell me what note your'e hearing the distortion on.

[elad770]

Oh....my Goodness. Thanks man
I thought something is wrong with my brain. I was literally hitting on different key for an hour!

See the image, I think it's one of these black keys.
For sure it's a black key. Tonight I will confirm

[attachment deleted by admin]

[elad770]

I think that the most important thing for me to do when I come home tonight is to plug my headphones and see if this happens again. Then, record a sample and see if there.
If it's not there the only option is that the speakers are unable to perform at that level, but remember guys: I experience this with only ONE key. Yes, one key!
This is a major concern because its annoying,  especially now, when I know about it and aware of it.

[Lee Batchelor]

I'll check which key it is on mine. I use two Bose Compacts. Good idea about cross-checking with good quality headphones, which I have. My distortion is in a different range and is a white key. Let me check...

[elad770]

Ok, I'm uploading the video to youtube and I really hope that you can hear it.
This is for sure
- not a setting problem because this happens Only on 1 key
- The speakers are fine but I switched them to eliminate the possibility
- Something structurally is making this annoying thin buzzing sound as if a spring is being vibrating
- When I manipulate the modulation wheel the buzzing sound takes different tones to it and when the wheel is turned all the way to the left it's gone but moved to the other note!

I feel terrible right now because I just got this a month ago!

Can you check and see if you are able to duplicate this on your Genos. Please?

https://youtu.be/7MjZjnaTex0

[Bachus]

Ok, I'm uploading the video to youtube and I really hope that you can hear it.
This is for sure
- not a setting problem because this happens Only on 1 key
- The speakers are fine but I switched them to eliminate the possibility
- Something structurally is making this annoying thin buzzing sound as if a spring is being vibrating
- When I manipulate the modulation wheel the buzzing sound takes different tones to it and when the wheel is turned all the way to the left it's gone but moved to the other note!

I feel terrible right now because I just got this a month ago!

Can you check and see if you are able to duplicate this on your Genos. Please?

https://youtu.be/7MjZjnaTex0

There is something resonating on the frequency of that note..
when you use the joystick to pitchshift, it chamges to another note, prooving its not key related but frequency related.. 

I tried on my Genos, can't hear anything on the G#3 key with headsets on(to early to play witouth)
It could also be a mechanical part of your particualr Genos

[meriam]

Hi eladd
Yes this is normal, its called a HARMONIC
in fact its not only the piano samples that have these harmonics
but also any acoustic instrument too,
such as sax,guitar,brass,strings.

the inperfection of tonal harmonics is what makes acoustic instruments sound realistic.
heres some links to help explain this phenomenon .
Meriam x

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inharmonicity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/268568/why-are-the-harmonics-of-a-piano-tone-not-multiples-of-the-base-frequency

[elad770]

It would have been a normal phenomenon if other keys will produce that but its literally this specific key.
I think I know what is the cause of this.
Cheap mechanical design together with cheap plastic.
I will post tomorrow because its 1:30am and I spent 2hr trying to figure this out. I can reassure you though: it's not Harmony to my ears its annoying and it's not part of the intended sound its a design flaw.

[valimaties]

I think is screws of case or inside. Definitely is about frequency and nothing about samples. Try other piano sound which sounds appropriate to that used in video. If the same noise happened with that G#3 or possible another key, that means is a frequency range which cause plastic case or a component inside which is not screwed well to generate that noise.
It is annoying, but is not a big problem in my opinion. There are big problems which we hope Yamaha will solve, much bigger than this one 

Regards,
Vali

[DerekA]

There are big problems which we hope Yamaha will solve, much bigger than this one 

Oh not sure I agree with you there Vali - I suspect that everyone feels that the particular problem affecting them is the most urgent one

[valimaties]

Oh not sure I agree with you there Vali - I suspect that everyone feels that the particular problem affecting them is the most urgent one

I agree with you Derek about "user feeling", but now we speak exactly what is speaking on "So many bugs" thread, about number of users encountering a problem. He is the single user which post about this problem. In a stack with problems we talked here on forum, I think is the last position. Registration saving problem I think is the biggest problem, and after that are others about touch controls, etc...

Regards,
Vali

[EileenL]

I have just tried mine and really hit it hard to produce loud volume and it is fine. I normally would mot play my keyboard with volume full on though. It sounds like that pitch is vibrating something.

[elad770]

Oh not sure I agree with you there Vali - I suspect that everyone feels that the particular problem affecting them is the most urgent one

Spot on my friend.
I actually don't feel the impact of the other bugs (yet) because I'm at the beginning of my journey with genos.
But when you play Piano and one of the keys sounds distorted, how is that not a big issue? Well....its bug for me and for my Bank.
When someone purchase the best he's naturally sensitive to things that in different scenario won't matter. That applies to all those who feel certain bugs bother them. We expect more when we invest more. Common sense.....
A lot of members are devoted yamaha users that purchasing the Genos was Obvious and trivial for them. Me? I've been waiting 7 years to finally be able to afford a "once in a life time" purchase. So excuse me if I sound paranoid or picky.
I'm actually not and the buzzing sound as if plastics and components are not properly connected is an Issue for me

[EileenL]

In this and most other cases Yamaha are the people to speak to and if necessary inspect the keyboard.

[Lee Batchelor]

I must disagree, Meriam . You are correct about harmonics existing in all acoustic instruments. If you were correct, all Genos keyboards would be making the exact same sound because they are all made from identical parts, and the voice samples are identical. Something is wrong.

Along your lines of thinking though, it's possible the sound is being triggered as a resonant frequency in the Genos speakers because the volume is set too high. It could be distorting through the amplifier/speaker combo at that frequency. It's not mechanical in nature because it's being produced in the speakers. If it were mechanical, you would hear the sound with the Genos turned Off.

The keyboard is under warranty. Take it back for a full diagnostic. (Good idea, Eileen!)

[Toril S]

I heard it Elad. Of cource it is a big issue! But Eileen is right, Yamaha must be contacted. I am curious. Have you tried to put the Genos on a different stand or surface to see if the buzz will change?

[Sergey Kadyrov]

I didn't understand from the text if headphones showed the same result. If it was fine in headphones, then, I guess, the problem is within the speaker itself. Maybe there's something loose there.

[Lee Batchelor]

Good point, Sergey. Yamaha needs to be consulted. I wouldn't live with that sound - not for $6,400. That has nothing to do with one's perception of annoyances. I has everything to do with spending big money for a defective product!

[Bachus]

I didn't understand from the text if headphones showed the same result. If it was fine in headphones, then, I guess, the problem is within the speaker itself. Maybe there's something loose there.

No, not necessarilly..

It can be any part of the Genos resonating at that frequency..
it can be a screw, a component on the mainboard, a knob.. resonating in that exact frequemcy..

In his case since he chnaged the speakers and the problem insisted
It can't be the speakers

[Stijn]

I too think that this particular frequency makes something 'sing' inside the casing.

What happens when you remove the speakers from the keyboard and position them about half a meter away from the Genos?
Do you still hear it?

Stijn

[SeaGtGruff]

He is the single user which post about this problem.

He might be the only person to post about it here, but I have seen posts from other users on other forums complaining about this same issue— but with different keyboards, such as a DGX-6xx model. The common theme seems to be that it's always regarding an Acoustic Piano voice and always occurs with a specific key (frequency) but none of the other keys. My suggestion to the other people was to try turning down the Reverb Depth, because Yamaha typically sets a fairly high Reverb Depth on some voices. They said it did help, but didn't eliminate the noise entirely. Having read all of the comments in this thread, I'm inclined to agree that it's some part that's vibrating in response to a given frequency, perhaps more so when that frequency is reinforced by certain harmonic overtones.

[Helmer dk.]

just one idea, i had a similar problem but with more keys and my solution was to turn down the volume for the microphone!

[Joe H]

... I'm inclined to agree that it's some part that's vibrating in response to a given frequency, perhaps more so when that frequency is reinforced by certain harmonic overtones.

I agree with your assessment. It sounds like there is something (in the keyboard) resonating with the frequency of that particular note.

Joe H

[motekmusic]

Hi Elad,,

Sorry to hear about the key distortion and thanks for the video showing the issue in depth.
Have not yet come across that yet on my machine, but since it has become as issue will investigate that piano and keys at a later
time.
Do hope it gets resolved as Yamaha has a good reputation for solutions or fixes.


cheers
elaine

[EileenL]

The speaker frets will sing if main volume is full on using the Genos speakers when certain notes are played. It would happen on Tyros as well. It is never recommended that you use full volume and at home you should not need it. Mine is always set to about 1 oclock for home use.

[valimaties]

The speaker frets will sing if main volume is full on using the Genos speakers when certain notes are played. It would happen on Tyros as well. It is never recommended that you use full volume and at home you should not need it. Mine is always set to about 1 oclock for home use.

I agree Eileen. I don't think either Genos speakers (or Tyros) to be used like gig speakers. If you want a bigger sound level, use bigger sound system.
I also have the same question as Stijn, did you removed Genos speaker from its places and do the same noise?

Regards,
Vali

[jimlaing]

This reminds me of something that happened to a friend some years ago.  I helped her choose an electronic piano to use at home for her singer-songwriter work.  We chose one (I think it was a modest-priced Roland).  It sounded quite good overall.  After she had it home for a few days, she called me to say that one or two notes didn't sound right.  She was worried she either had a "bad" unit, or that she made a bad buying decision on this particular Roland piano.

I went over to her house, and it was a lot like what you're showing/describing here.  There was a buzzing sound on 1 or 2 notes but no others.  It became more prominent as the volume was increased.  I could tell right away that it sounded mechanical (i.e. the problem was not in the sample).  The sounds were fine (clean) via headphones.

Turned out is was her music stand; she had pens and pencils, etc. on it.  When we took everything off her music stand, the sound problem was completely gone.  It was a physical resonance created the certain pitches, in the physical environment. 

She felt a lot better after I showed her this!  :-)

Jim

[Murat]

It is all quite usual. My music stand and/or keyboard stand does it sometimes, intermittently makes the buzzing sounds; sometimes something on the other side of the room might start buzzing depending on the frequency of the notes being played! Or sometimes my wife starts shouting when I play the keyboard too much! 

[Toril S]

Or the neighbours😀