So many bugs !!!!

[BenoitM]

Benoit can't you just save the modified voice as a custom user voice? Then call up the user voice in a registration?
Mike

Hi Mike,

Saving as a custom user voice did not help, as it seems to store only one DSP, ignoring the others... (in Yamaha Expansion Manager, we have the same limitation when we create custom voices...)

In fact, the 'Voice Edit' screen itself only allow one dsp , whereas in the 'Mixer' screen we have much more flexibility concerning the DSPs...

I'm afraid that, except saving the DSPs settings as Custom DSP, there's currently no workaround ... (and having only 10 custom DSP slots available, it is not really usable...)

Unfortunately, the subject has already been discussed several times on this forum without any practical solution:
Stacking DSP https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=48122.0
Firmware 1.10 removes DSP Setup https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=41600.0

So, I think we have to hope for a new Firmware that would solve the problem and finally allow us to use the full potential of the Genos' DSPs ... 

Benoit

[Bachus]

Hi Mike,

Saving as a custom user voice did not help, as it seems to store only one DSP, ignoring the others... (in Yamaha Expansion Manager, we have the same limitation when we create custom voices...)

In fact, the 'Voice Edit' screen itself only allow one dsp , whereas in the 'Mixer' screen we have much more flexibility concerning the DSPs...

I'm afraid that, except saving the DSPs settings as Custom DSP, there's currently no workaround ... (and having only 10 custom DSP slots available, it is not really usable...)

Unfortunately, the subject has already been discussed several times on this forum without any practical solution:
Stacking DSP https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=48122.0
Firmware 1.10 removes DSP Setup https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=41600.0

So, I think we have to hope for a new Firmware that would solve the problem and finally allow us to use the full potential of the Genos' DSPs ... 

Benoit

There was a lot of discussion about this on the German forums and facebookgroup
2 german Genos dealers confirmed Yamaha knows about this
And they expect it to be solved in the according to them upcomming big update..

What seems like a small problem, is actually a big problem as it requires them to somehow change OTS and Voice and registry save formats.. 

[KeyboardByBiggs]

I IMMEDIATELY went out and bought a UPS.. (uninterrupted power supply).

I NEVER plug my keyboards or computers directly into the wall, they always go into a UPS, and not a cheapo one either.

GREAT ADVICE MARK!

[jwyvern]

What seems like a small problem, is actually a big problem as it requires them to somehow change OTS and Voice and registry save formats..

Yes, registration and OTS memories would have to be increased to accommodate the edited parameters of all the extra  DSP's a user might decide to use, which is pretty open ended. Where does it stop... After 2 DSP's, or 5 or what?
It's possible Yamaha may decide it is simpler for them to give increased memory for user DSP slots (currently only 10)  which can be used in a chain without the registration, ots or user voice file formats having to be inflated significantly to memorise all the details themselves.

John

[jimlaing]

To ...Biggs ...

I'm curious what type of UPS you use; that is, what type you found to be better then the "Cheapo's" as you mention - that is, what is a better-than-cheapo, higher-quality product (name or model etc.)?  Asking since I need to purchase another UPS ...

Thanks,
Jim

[DerekA]

Yes, registration and OTS memories would have to be increased to accommodate the edited parameters of all the extra  DSP's a user might decide to use, which is pretty open ended. Where does it stop... After 2 DSP's, or 5 or what?
It's possible Yamaha may decide it is simpler for them to give increased memory for user DSP slots (currently only 10)  which can be used in a chain without the registration, ots or user voice file formats having to be inflated significantly to memorise all the details themselves.

John

DSP parameters are set up using SY*** messages in the voice set / registration / OTS files. There is no limit on the number of SY*** messages in a file. I don't know what exactly the problem is, but it's probably related to the way that the system assigns DSPs from a pool. If you load up a voice, when you've already assigned DSPs to e.g. song channels, you don't know which DSP number you're going to be given. It's probably not a difficult problem, but it seems that they've decided not to solve it yet.

[meriam]

I NEVER plug my keyboards or computers directly into the wall, they always go into a UPS, and not a cheapo one either.

GREAT ADVICE MARK!

Yup Biggs
U.P.S. is essential for many guys.
Meriam x

[Bachus]

DSP parameters are set up using SY*** messages in the voice set / registration / OTS files. There is no limit on the number of SY*** messages in a file. I don't know what exactly the problem is, but it's probably related to the way that the system assigns DSPs from a pool. If you load up a voice, when you've already assigned DSPs to e.g. song channels, you don't know which DSP number you're going to be given. It's probably not a difficult problem, but it seems that they've decided not to solve it yet.

A solution would be to make a sepperate DSP section in the performance memmory.. and save both the dsp prameters as well as the dap routing table there..

Tis however would leave OTS settings with just a single dsp saved..

[jwyvern]

A solution would be to make a sepperate DSP section in the performance memmory.. and save both the dsp prameters as well as the dap routing table there..

Tis however would leave OTS settings with just a single dsp saved..

That appears to be how it is done at present with registrations, OTS and user voice files, but only 1 set of dsp parameters is stored/ accessed. You can  currently chain more than 1 dsp and save to a registration but the latter will only return full details of one of them. The second is still assigned to the Voice so may be useful occasionally with more effort, but only default parameters are applied to it. (Hence my comments in previous post).

John

[KeyboardByBiggs]

I'm curious what type of UPS you use; that is, what type you found to be better then the "Cheapo's" as you mention - that is, what is a better-than-cheapo, higher-quality product (name or model etc.)?  Asking since I need to purchase another UPS ...

Thanks for asking Jim. I use something like this:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apc-back-ups-pro-1500va-battery-back-up-system-black/6165881.p?skuId=6165881

Or this...

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apc-smart-ups-1000va-tower-ups-black/9713099.p?skuId=9713099

[elad770]

Thanks for asking Jim. I use something like this:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apc-back-ups-pro-1500va-battery-back-up-system-black/6165881.p?skuId=6165881

Or this...

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/apc-smart-ups-1000va-tower-ups-black/9713099.p?skuId=9713099

That's funny , I was about to post the exact link because this is what I'm using.
The 1500v Is an overkill,  however you can plug the speaker system as well as other devices.
Remember everyone,  the benefit of a UPS is not for you to play the Genos for 30min during Powerout 
Its designed to allow you to turn in off safely if a poweroutage occurs.  99% of electrical devices that are effected by current change are effected when the power comes back up , not when the power goes off. For that a simple surge protector can also do the job. But again, I can only reinforce the recommendation

[Bachus]

That appears to be how it is done at present with registrations, OTS and user voice files, but only 1 set of dsp parameters is stored/ accessed. You can  currently chain more than 1 dsp and save to a registration but the latter will only return full details of one of them. The second is still assigned to the Voice so may be useful occasionally with more effort, but only default parameters are applied to it. (Hence my comments in previous post).

John

Well that exactly describes the problem...doesn't it?...
Probably due the fact that you can only send sy*** to that single dsp?

[KeyboardByBiggs]

The 1500v Is an overkill,  however you can plug the speaker system as well as other devices.

Nothing wrong with overkill.

And I do plug in my speakers and other peripherals.

It also protects you against something else that can be sneaky dangerous...voltage variations like brownouts and spikes. A brownout is where the power doesn't go out but the voltage drops far more than it should. I also experience blinks, where the power goes off for just a second or two and then comes right back on, often with a surge.

[pjd]

What seems like a small problem, is actually a big problem as it requires them to somehow change OTS and Voice and registry save formats..

Quite true. The DSP configuration info (and even the DSP parameters) is essentially hard-coded into the save formats. If you're a software architect, you're face palming right now. Yamaha needed to treat DSP as a first class object with a clean separation of concerns. Legacy design decisions....  [End of nerd remark.]

If there is an update on the way,  Hallelujah! 

-- pj

[elad770]

Nothing wrong with overkill.

And I do plug in my speakers and over peripherals.

It also protects you against something else that can be sneaky dangerous...voltage variations like brownouts and spikes. A brownout is where the power doesn't go out but the voltage drops far more than it should. I also experience blinks, where the power goes off for just a second or two and then comes right back on, often with a surge.

Haha Lol  . To be Frank, I'm the Mother of "overkill"
My life is full of gadgets that are considered "overkill"
For that matter, the Genos itself is an "overkill" for me, but oh..... it's worth it! I'm a type of person who likes to by the best (within reason of course)  and expect the best.
But look, the 1500v is rated for 900w of continuous power which will last for few minutes but still....
Now when I think about I remember trying to find all over the web and in the manual the Wattage consumption of the Genos. Let's assume it's around 50W plus the speakers around 50W (this is all guessing). Unless other devices are connected to it such as a Reciever which requires 750W variable current. Plus the computer plus all the other stuff,  I see where  this type of UPS will be useful. For me; I have 2 of these units. The Genos gets special treatment with it's own private UPS. With electrical power, I do agree with you that the Overkill is actually translated to "play it safe"
When the UPS has higher capacity the easier it become to handle everything that is thrown at it and with electricity you never know

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

I've had my Genos for over a year, and haven't had any of the problems you list.

Either you have midi files which Genos disagrees with, or you have a warranty issue.

Fred

Thanks Fred, "which Genos disagrees with"   Well said. I believe many - myself included - have had midi file  problem in addition to "disagreable" styles accumulated over a succesion of Tyros models and downloads from various sites.  After I worked on those in the Genos style creator the styles somehow got "cleaned up" and Genos agrees with them.
As you have pointed out many times there are things we would like to see altered like for instance what can be  put into Favorites and what can be set once for all as global, but we must discern between things that could be implementated better  - and they have been listed here - and things that are bugs, e.g. the keyboard does not behave like it was intended to behave.

Cheers

Kaarlo