Is there an app for iPad to select voices?

[gerarde]

update.

Got my MD BT-01 today and it will not pair with my iPad.
IT will connect to my phone but the iPad can not find it.
I was on the phone with Apple for 40 minutes and they will have to call me back on Tuesday with a solution, I hope.
I have Keystage installed on the iPad and can not use it yet.
When I do get it working, I will send pics of what I am doing.

Gerard

[zionip]

Gerard,

The solution is very simple - install free iOS app BLE-MIDI by Korg.  Connect the Yamaha MD BT-01 bluetooth wireless MIDI adapter from within the iOS app BLE-MIDI because iOS Settings app most of the time cannot 'see' the MD BT-01, but BLE-MIDI app can always see it.

Good luck,
Paul

[gerarde]

Paul,

Thanks again for your help.
That fixed it and now is working.
A problem I am having is that any voice I have chosen in Keystage, it does replace the voice I had on RIGHT 1 but, it keeps the DSP of the voice I replaced.
When I select a voice from Genos, it loads the effects and DSP's for that voice.
And when I select a voice from Keystage, it only loads the raw voice.
An example, if I select an organ voice on Genos that has the ROTARY effect, and then select Grand Piano from Keystage, the ROTARY effect is still there.
I hope I explained that right.

Gerard

[zionip]

Hi Gerard,

You can leave Ali Gokturk, the developer of KeyStage, a Facebook message to see if he can help you on your KeyStage related questions:
https://www.facebook.com/agokturk80/

Thanks,
Paul

[Bachus]

Hi Gerard,

You can leave Ali Gokturk, the developer of KeyStage, a Facebook message to see if he can help you on your KeyStage related questions:
https://www.facebook.com/agokturk80/

Thanks,
Paul

Paul have found a way to select sections based on program changed messages send from he Genos?

[gerarde]

Paul,

Thanks, I left him a message.

The PC, MSB, LSB that is sent to Genos selects the raw voice so to speak and not the PRESET voice.
After selecting a voice in Keystage, Genos shows the voice highlighted in the preset but I have to press the preset to get the effects and DSP's loaded.
I do not know if there is a way to call up the preset voice.

Gerard

[jimlaing]

I had written about this a while back too; I also had wanted the full preset voice set up when I "chose" it via an external keyboard PC/MSB/LSB.  Just like you, I get the voice but not all the effects etc.  I could not find a way around it.  Way back I even contacted Yamaha; they just confirmed that indeed, selecting a voice via MIDI PC/MSB/LSB, it *only* selects the voice, and does not apply the preset effects/DSP settings for the voice ... wish there setting on Genos that said "When voice selected via MIDI, apply Preset settings: on or off"! 

This is a major issue to using external gear to control Genos . . .

Jim

[Bachus]

I had written about this a while back too; I also had wanted the full preset voice set up when I "chose" it via an external keyboard PC/MSB/LSB.  Just like you, I get the voice but not all the effects etc.  I could not find a way around it.  Way back I even contacted Yamaha; they just confirmed that indeed, selecting a voice via MIDI PC/MSB/LSB, it *only* selects the voice, and does not apply the preset effects/DSP settings for the voice ... wish there setting on Genos that said "When voice selected via MIDI, apply Preset settings: on or off"! 

This is a major issue to using external gear to control Genos . . .

Jim

The easiest work around is setting all the voices in an empty song in genos.. which atomatically sets the dsp..   and then save these song changes in a registry..     so you only send the midi notes and cc messages trough the app..

This way you can controll everything from the Genos and just use the keystage app as a router.. with the mixer, and the channel on/off screen the Genos is well suited for this...


The more i think about it, the less need i see to use keystage to send those program changes to Genos...

[Genos John]

This is a major issue to using external gear to control Genos . . .

Jim

Hi Jim, I also came across the same issue when using a DAW and spent a long weekend looking into it. I found a really interesting article about the whole issue on the PSR Tutorial main site

https://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/Sy***.html

I never had a Tyros 5 but according to Andrey Gusev, it suffered the same issues ?

In the article , he has attached a spreadsheet with the sys ex messages that change the DSPs so most of the hard work is done for us . You still need to know a little about the Sys Message so you can tell it the channel you want to change it on..so its not a simple as CC or PC numbers.

Also interesting is he has made an INS file for cakewalk that will automatically send the Sys Ex messages for the insertion effects from a DAW. He charges a small fee but if you are a power user it might be worth looking into.

I get round the issue by referring to his spreadsheet and also understanding SYS Ex a bit better having read his article. I also use the sequencer as mentioned by Bachus but you need to know in advance the channel you want the Voice plus DSP to gbe on as the Sys Ex messages are channel dependant although the are transmitted on any channel.

Hope that helps although it certainly doesn't solve our problem.

[gerarde]

It would be interesting to know, when you press a preset voice, what that button press actually is.
It calls up the voice and all the effects with one button press.
If we had access to what is in that button press, it would solve everything, I think.

Gerard

[pjd]

Crazy thought... I'm a looong way from my gear and other resources right now, so I can't check this out for a few days.

Is there a "double secret" Clavinova compatibility Sy*** message to select panel voices? Yamaha never published a complete description of these messages, but there might be a message to do it.

I agree. It would be great to call up a voice via the VCE file that is lurking under its panel button. I spend a huge amount of time embedding the DSP programming into my MIDI song files.

-- pj

Clavinova compliance messages are the Sy*** messages that start with F0 43 73 01 ...

[gerarde]

This makes me also wonder if vConsole is calling up the preset voice with effects and dsp's or not.
Anybody who is using vConsole, maybe they can let us know if it loads the right settings for the voices.

The only way I could use Keystage right now and I am not sure I want to do it is as follows:
I create one registration bank per song.
I use the 9 other registrations for voices.
So if my registration 7 is Piano, it has the effect for it which I think is damper resonance.
I could select that then in Keystage select say, cocktail grand or honky tonk grand and that works.
I found any organflute voice does not work as it does not have the stops set right.
If another registration for acoustic guitar is set, in Keystage I could select another acoustic guitar and will inherit the settings of my registration one.
Gee, do I really want to do this?

Gerard

[Wim NL]

https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DrAfRqTA3POI&ved=0ahUKEwj6pYmwg-nfAhVQNOwKHc4iDa4Qo7QBCCswBg&usg=AOvVaw2Hc35Utlj_Ooy7wTLPZ5OV

[Darius]

Hello,
based on my observations (more on this below) : when you select a different voice by pressing the Touchscreen you do not only send a MIDI command to change the voice, but you also send Sy*** data to change the effects associated to the voice. For this reason, just sending a Program Change (as in KeyStage) leaves the effects untouched, and you can end up with a piano sounding "distorted" if it comes after a rock guitar.

Not later than last Thursday I went to my valued local music shop with my Ipad under my arm. I connected the IPad per USB to Genos and I just looked at the different MIDI messages that are sent when I press buttons, move faders, touch the screen... The app which I have used is called "MIDI Wrench". What I have seen is that many functions of the panel and touch screen can be initiated "from outside" by sending exactly the same MIDI commands to Genos.

To perform a voice change, we must send several MIDI commands (I saw on the Ipad between 6 and 12 lines, depending on the voice). Many MIDI controllers can only generate 1 MIDI command (ex: Program Change) as a result of 1 action (button pressed for example). Translators in Keystage fall into this category. So we would need an "interface" between Keystage and Genos. An app like MidiFire could generate many commands using a "StreamByter" module. Personally I would rather go for a standalone Bomebox because the associated software enables to capture MIDI data, which makes the programming much easier.

Whatever the choice for the translator, it would be possible to send the necessary bunch of MIDI commands... just to change correctly 1 "Voice" on Genos. A lot of work for sure, but it would be very "clean" as it would simply mirror what happens when we press a virtual button on the touchscreen.
I also looked at Style changes : when I pressed the touchscreen to select a different Style I saw a huge flow of MIDI data, more than 100 lines for a single style change... This amount of MIDI data was the combination of me pressing the button on the screen (let´s call it MIDI flow #1 = action) plus the first measure of the Style file being loaded by Genos (MIDI flow #2 = reaction). I did no look into details so I can´t tell how big MIDI flow #1 was.

As an alternative I find Bachus´s suggestion very helpful: all required changes (styles, voices...) could be saved into a song. The song saved into a registry. And the registry called by a MIDI command from the Ipad/computer.

Have a nice day,
Darius

PS: I have noticed that not all panel buttons send MIDI commands. For example, the voice select buttons "Right 1", "Right 2" etc. do not show any MIDI activity when pressed or depressed. That worries me because I had wished that it would be possible to control these buttons using a MIDI controller. Same for selecting a voice category or changing pages (P1/P2/P3) on the screen. Interestingly the Yamaha Voice Guide (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd_n32tcwZ4) seems to interact with everything, so there must be a possibility...

[gerarde]

I was able to load voices that were not too dependent on Sy*** messages for effects or DSP's.
Attached is a pic showing wht I have done so far.
If I have already selected say CFX Grand piano on the Genos and I select cocktail piano, or honky tonk from Keystage, it will already have the DAMPER RESONANCE dsp alredy loaded.
I have read the many, many posts so far, and that you for getting my brain going. lol
Next, I will pursue through Keystage, how to add the correct SY*** messages to have the voice sound the same as if I selected it from the Genos.
Genos John mention this post:
https://psrtutorial.com/music/articles/Sy***.html
For the $15, I might get that to try and use his already written SY*** messages.
I will keep you posted as to how I am progressing.

Gerard

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Genos John]

I will pursue through Keystage, how to add the correct SY*** messages to have the voice sound the same as if I selected it from the Genos.

Gerard

Hi Gerard ..if Sys Ex was only so easy to work with I would pursue it too. However it would take me for ages to write, even if I was fully conversant with it. This photo shows the info required by the Genos to select the 60sRockHero guitar with its associated DSP



The first three lines are simple to understand ..the CC and PC data that select the raw patch

The First line of Sys Ex (red arrow) selects the Multi Fx Distortion Solo DSP, I have typed it out so you can clearly see it. I have put commas to separate the bytes for clarity. They are not part of the Sys Ex message

F0,43,10,4C,03,00,00,5F,20,F7

There are really only three bytes we need to consider the first 00 tells the Genos to put the effect on channel 1.
If you want it on channel 2 then 00 would  now read 01 as shown below. Etc.

F0,43,10,4C,03,01,00,5F,20,F7

The two bytes that select the type of DSP are 5F and 20. These are in Hex format so converted to decimal they are 95 and 32. If you refer to the Genos Data sheet ..you will find that the MSB and LSB for Distortion effect Multi Fx Distortion Solo is 95 and 32. That is how to tie in the data sheet info with the Sys Ex message.

The rest of the Sys Ex messages set all the different "knobs" on that same effect. Therefore its too much work for me to write my own sys ex message every time I want to select a voice which relies of the DSP.

I have a few work rounds .. GM, GS and XG sounds dont use the DSPs so you can easily use them with only CC and PC messages.

There is a small program on the internet which selects the voices and the associated DSP. There is a free demo at this link

http://www.midiland.de/en/software_frameset.htm

Its called Midifile Optimiser X

I am using the free demo to set up the correct sounds in the Genos Mixer while Cubase sends the Midi tracks to play the song on Genos. The demo of midifile Optimiser does not save anything but once it sets up the Genos Mixer with the sounds and effects I want .. its easy enough to save to a registration ..or I can record the info in Cubase.
A screen shot of Midifile Optimiser and I highlighted the part that includes the default DSPs. If only Yamaha had put that tick box in Genos..we would not have this issue



So its worth downloading the demo to try before buying. Im sure there must be other such programs too.

Hope that helps a little more.

[gerarde]

Genos John,

In your post previous, you showed where you could get 15,000 sy*** messages for TYROS 5 for $15.00
I think most of those will work on the Genos except for maybe some new voices.
I am trying to find out from the developer if I can send SY*** messages from Keystage.

Gerard

[gerarde]

UPDATE:
Currently KeyStage does not support sending sy*** messages.
I texted the developer and he said he would be working on that in a future release.
In the meantime I have a workaround.
When I am playing a style or registration on the Genos, I can open the voice select for right 1.
Then when I make a change to the voice in KeyStage, the raw voice is loaded in Genos.
The voice select screen shows the raw voice loaded.
I then tap that voice on Genos and all the effects, dsp's, etc. are loaded.
It is an extra step but it will work until KeyStage supports sy*** messages.

Gerard