Selecting Voices via MIDI, and having them load the Voice AND default effects?

[jimlaing]

Hi all ... I am trying to have an external device (either MIDI keyboard controller, or computer/sequencer), send the MIDI commands to "recall" a voice - such as for selecting CFX ConcertGrand.  I have the device send MIDI commands for MSB, LSB, and PC, and it does recall the proper voice.  I have that working fine.

But, the voice does not have the effects that go with that voice.  For example, if I had a Heavy Metal Guitar on Right1, then I send the command to recall an Piano on Right1, the Piano has heavy distortion, "left over" from the previous Voice that was on Right1.  Is there a parameter to set so that when a Voice is recalled via a MIDI command (MSB, LSB, PC), it also selects the default Effects etc. for that voice, just like if you selected that Voice through the touch screen menus?  Thank!   -Jim

[SeaGtGruff]

To do that you need to send all of the other messages that select the effects types and set the various parameters for the voice, effects, and channel. Some Yamaha models have a "Send Init" function that can be used to transmit all of these setup messages to a DAW or other hardware/software to be recorded and saved. I don't think that function is included on the PSR-S, Tyros, and Genos models, but I think you should be able to achieve the same thing by selecting the voice you want on the keyboard-- which should load all of the presets associated with that voice-- and save the settings to a user voice file. Then you should be able to open the user voice file in your DAW and save it as a MIDI clip, which you can copy into your MIDI track at the point where you want to select that voice-- usually at the very beginning of the track, unless you want to switch voices in the middle of the track.

[Joe H]

Jim,

Try the MIDI Monitor in MixMaster to capture all the MIDI messages when you select a Voice from the keyboard. You can actually save what you capture with the MIDI Monitor as Standard MIDI File. (SMF) Once you have saved the file, you can then send (play) this MIDI file from a sequencer or MIDI utility that handles SMFs.

Another method would be to open Voice Set and then save as a User Voice.  You can then edit the file extension of the Voice Set file from .vce or .liv to...     .mid.  Then send as a SMF from your device.

Joe H

[jimlaing]

Thanks - those are good ideas for a DAW/sequencer.  However, my main/real goal is to have a 2nd keyboard, with lots of buttons etc., able to select voices on the Genos.  The keyboard can send Program Change with MSB/LSB, but the buttons can't send arbitrary, long MIDI strings.

It would be nice if there were an option to say "When a voice is recalled/selected via MIDI, automatically load the effects settings for that voice".  That is, have it act exactly as if you had gone into the on-keyboard menus and selected that voice.

Oh well ... my idea of having 36 very quickly accessible voices (one button press on certain MIDI controller keyboards) will work, but I'll have to be careful not to make too drastic of a voice change or the effects will be "wrong" (sound wrong) for the selected voice.  Going from GuitarHero (in a Registration), to then select a flute via MIDI, just won't work!  :-(

Or even changing from an initially selected (via Registration) "phased e-piano" to acoustic guitar, since the acoustic guitar will have the phase effect on it.

Thanks!
Jim
Jim

[jwyvern]

It's not just the more obvious effects that you need to consider. Any basic Voice Set settings if normally present will not be refreshed either if just the voice nos. are transmitted.
John

[jimlaing]

Sounds like there is no way to do it with a device that is limited to sending PC/MSB/LSB to select a voice.  I don't think any of the small keyboards out there (such as M-Audio, Alesis, Novation, etc.) with the programmable buttons and pads etc., can send arbitrary, long MIDI strings; they can just sent specifically 'structure' things like CC, Pgm Change, Note on/off, sometimes RPN / sys-ex.

Guess I'll do the best I can, and "live with" the conseqeunces.

Next thing I might explore, is to find out from the Data List, what the MIDI command is to "turn off" the DSP insertion effect on a given voice.  I notice that some insertion effects allow you to set "Depth" (including zero), which others, "Depth" is greyed out (on Genos).  Example is some of the guitar distortion effects ...

Thanks for the input so far!
Jim

[SeaGtGruff]

Try the MIDI Monitor in MixMaster to capture all the MIDI messages when you select a Voice from the keyboard.

I don't know the PSR-S/Tyros/Genos models work, but on the PSR-E models the keyboard doesn't always send all of the settings when you select a voice-- it sends only the settings which changed. For instance, if the current voice uses a particular Reverb Type and you select a different voice that uses the same Reverb Type, the Reverb Type Sy*** message won't be transmitted by the keyboard because it didn't need to execute it.

But hopefully if you create a User Voice the keyboard will save all of the relevant settings for the User Voice, even if it's the same as a Preset Voice with no changes made to it.

[Pino]

I'm just hoping that connecting a small controller to the new "Yammex module" will sort this out
It will certainly give PSR owners better lead voices or even midi straight from a Yamaha keyboard.

I'm looking for a stronger clarinet voice for my restaurant gigs.

I'm very happy with Yamaha styles but some of the right hand voices are very thin.

Pino

[EileenL]

Have you tried tweaking these voices in voice set. You can get some good results  this way.

[markstyles]

The Genos (and Tyros) sets up DSPs via Sy***, Problem is those sy*** commands are used on the 'Rhythm voices' Normally what I do, is record rhythm voices from Genos into Logic Pro, and later send Logic Pro's tracks back to Genos assigned to Song Channels.. So any sy*** you may have recorded is not going to work, because it is written to be send to an internal rhythm track, not a song channel.

All sy*** has a 'header' which tells it what manufacturer, what model synth, kbd, and eventually MIDI track to talk to.  I also believe that DSP specific details are not send out of MIDI port, but kept internal. (not positive or can prove it)

Sy*** is too complicated for me to figure out..  It is usually written in Hex base, not decimal base (16 numbers, instead of 10). Some once wrote a sy*** command program..

WHAT you can do is assign your  DAW to send out on MIDI channels (I leave the MIDI channel the same as what Genos puts out). and in Genos assign those midi tracks to the rhythm voices, (Rhythm 1,2 Bass, Chords 1,2, pads, phrase 1,2).  So when you call up a voice, the right DSPs will be assigned. But I suspect, this is not what you want to do.

On the Tyros manuals, only certain DSPs went to specific channels or rhythm tracks,  Now on Genos, all DSPS go to song channels 1 - 16. So I am suspecting there are additional DSPs, for the left, right 1 - 3, and rhythm tracks..

Cause none of the 16 editable DSPS can be sent to a style part.  (or at least I can figure out).. This would be something to talk to Yamaha techs about, it may be beyond the area of where they can help you.

If you can do it, the answer lies in Sy*** control of DSPs.  but I suspect that another group of DSPs are set aside for internal rhythm voices, (again not provable, on my part).

Sorry this is not more  helpful.