Name Just One Or Two Things That Made You Buy A Genos

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

.......It has some "Chinese" hardware inside, and low quality, but we don't know when we buy

Regards,
Vali

Hi Vali,
I would not be too worried about that, there is basically nothing electronic you can buy to-day if you want to avoid Chinese hardware.
My TYROS 5/6  was made in China - they use the word "assembled in" to scare you less. and as a fact after  5 software - not hardware - updates it has worked well for years.  We use Chinese hardware in the military target drones we produce and have not had more problems than with German or Japanese hardware.  I believe anyone who outsources production to China runs the risk of giving away his most valuable production know how and design secrets, but that is another story. BTW the Chinese - I have worked with them for many years - learned quickly the modern way of never admitting any bugs, which bugs me, (pun intended) 

Cheers

Kaarlo

[markstyles]

I've been one of the first to purchase the Tyros 4, 5, and Genos..  Yamaha does not disappoint (me at least).. Their products have always have had a great sound, well constructed (perhaps manuals lacked more clarity).. But they are a great company..  I would have bought one anyways. Glad I did..

I love the sound,  I understand the architecture of Genos, Tyros, so it is easy to keep up with the changes with minimal adjustment to a completely new design

[travlin-easy]

For me, Genos is, unfortunately, out of the equation, not because of the expense, but because I no longer spend 7 days a week on stage as an entertainer. If I could go back to work, I would have a Genos in a heartbeat. After working with many of the converted styles on my PSR-S950, I have really been impressed by not only the big improvement in drum and bass quality, but also many of the right hand voices. I just listened to a song performed by a forum member on another forum and it was absolutely outstanding, especially the sax voice. The style itself was superb and much better than the same style I had once heard on the T5. To me, it is the best sounding keyboard I have ever heard and I have tried, and owned nearly every arranger keyboard ever produced. (hope my wife doesn't read this!)

Now, when many people upgrade, or update their arranger keyboards, and I too have been guilty of this, we tend to want the new keyboard to sound just like the old one did. Well, that's a big mistake! It's not the same keyboard, even though it was manufactured by the same manufacturer. It has all new sounds, new dynamics and lots of great, new features that need to be explored. This is a tough nut to crack for most of us that have been on stage for more years than some of younger forum members have been alive. I had the same problems when I performed with a guitar. When I upgraded to a Yamaha 12-string guitar, I couldn't understand why it didn't sound like my old 6-string Ibanez. I finally came to the stark realization that it sounded one Hell of a lot better, and within a few months I became very comfortable performing in front of my old audiences with that 12-string.

Good luck,

Gary

[Lee Batchelor]

Well put, Gary.

As for

Now, when many people upgrade, or update their arranger keyboards, and I too have been guilty of this, we tend to want the new keyboard to sound just like the old one did.

I don't agree. If I'm trading an old keyboard for the newest one and spending a few thousand extra dollars, it better sound a helluva lot better than the old one !!

[Gloria]

Hi Gary,  Good thoughts in your comments about the Genos.

Gloria

[DonM]

Dang it Gary, just buy a Genos.  You can afford, you will enjoy it and you can't take all that money with you when you leave! 
Actually you can leave the Genos to me in your will , about year 2040.  I'll be 97 then.

[travlin-easy]

Don, I would buy one for Christmas, but Carol might have something to say about that. Yes, I can afford it, but after what I went through today, I'm not sure that it would be a wise move, economically.

I ventured up to the boat today to finish up some work that needed to be done before it goes in the water. I worked on it for about 45 minutes to an hour, then, without warning, the lungs went out and this old codger had to get into the car, turn on the AC and fire up the oxygen generator. The earth was spinning a lot faster than I thought it should. The temperature in the sun, which is where I was working, was about 100, with 90 percent humidity - not good for an old codger with nasty lungs. O'm headed back tomorrow and hopefully will finish what I started, but if not, I don't care - it will just have to wait till the weather improves. Next week, the weather is supposed to be in the low 70s, which is far more tollerable.

Don't hold your breath for that Christmas present, Don,

Gary :cool:

[DonM]

Ditch the boat, stay at home in the AC and play your Genos!    Use headphones so you won't hear Carol yelling at you. 

[valimaties]

Hi Vali,
I would not be too worried about that, there is basically nothing electronic you can buy to-day if you want to avoid Chinese hardware.
My TYROS 5/6  was made in China - they use the word "assembled in" to scare you less. and as a fact after  5 software - not hardware - updates it has worked well for years.  We use Chinese hardware in the military target drones we produce and have not had more problems than with German or Japanese hardware.  I believe anyone who outsources production to China runs the risk of giving away his most valuable production know how and design secrets, but that is another story. BTW the Chinese - I have worked with them for many years - learned quickly the modern way of never admitting any bugs, which bugs me, (pun intended) 

Cheers

Kaarlo

Hi Kaarlo.
When I said "Chinese", I was referring about low quality of new buttons's contacts (blue-orange buttons contacts), which are not anymore like T-T5 contacts. I was referring also about power supply inside, which is not anymore as it was in every Tyros (or I think every keyboard)... now it is like a external laptop power supply, which is bond inside keyboard's case with wires  This is not professional approach, IMO...

But it is good that till now I did not have ant hardware problem, and it's good I don't see what it is inside 

Regards,
Vali

[stephenm52]

Don, I would buy one for Christmas, but Carol might have something to say about that. Yes, I can afford it, but after what I went through today, I'm not sure that it would be a wise move, economically.

I ventured up to the boat today to finish up some work that needed to be done before it goes in the water. I worked on it for about 45 minutes to an hour, then, without warning, the lungs went out and this old codger had to get into the car, turn on the AC and fire up the oxygen generator. The earth was spinning a lot faster than I thought it should. The temperature in the sun, which is where I was working, was about 100, with 90 percent humidity - not good for an old codger with nasty lungs. O'm headed back tomorrow and hopefully will finish what I started, but if not, I don't care - it will just have to wait till the weather improves. Next week, the weather is supposed to be in the low 70s, which is far more tollerable.

Don't hold your breath for that Christmas present, Don,

Gary :cool:

Gary, If I had been able to stop by with my Genos on the way back from Florida, you may have already purchased a Genos because you would have loved what you heard.   

[soryt]

@ valimaties ,
Did you opend the Genos ? and do you have made some pictures of it ?
btw , the T5 was also made in China , T4 was made in Japan .
do not forget that the time that poor quality was made in China is well over, there are many Premium brands that have their top products made in China

Soryt 

[jimlaing]

For me, some of the early things that swayed me to go ahead and jump from Tyros5 to Genos:
1) Somewhat smaller form factor for 76 key version
2) having 76 keys (I have T5-61)
3) Internal almost-2GB-expansion
4) No HD (spinning disk) to fail
5) lots of new sounds, styles
6) Revo drums seemed like a big step up
7) sliders and knobs

There were things I was "keen" about, but decided I could live with, adapt to:
1) touch screen (I like the old non-touch screen better, but touch has its pros and cons)
2) black/dark color (harder to see on dark stage, but I can adapt)
3) loss of lots of buttons (voice select, style select) but I'll adapt

These are just the first quick thoughts that occur to me on reading the question that titles this thread ...

Jim

[valimaties]

@ valimaties ,
Did you opend the Genos ? and do you have made some pictures of it ?
btw , the T5 was also made in China , T4 was made in Japan .
do not forget that the time that poor quality was made in China is well over, there are many Premium brands that have their top products made in China

Soryt 

I have a friend who opened it, because his childes plays with his Genos, not in his presence, and pull up some of buttons. He had to opened it, and he told me what I tell you now... He had T2, T5, and now Genos, same as me.

BTW, on my ex T5 the post label its wrote Made in Japan, not in China!

Regards,
Vali

[Gunnar Jonny]

Don't worry, be happy.
'Plastic Fantastic Genos' will last as long as it last, then we have to buy new ones.
We're living in the world of use and trash, cellphones, keyboards or whatever ..... 

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

I have a friend who opened it, because his childes plays with his Genos, not in his presence, and pull up some of buttons. He had to opened it, and he told me what I tell you now... He had T2, T5, and now Genos, same as me.

BTW, on my ex T5 the post label its wrote Made in Japan, not in China!

Regards,
Vali

Hi Vali,

you are 100 % correct about the power supply. I posted somewhere here earlier  about that strange feature. Cannot find it now. Having built Böhm and Wersi organs from kits in the 1980ies  I can never resist opening a new keyboard even though YAMAHA keyboards need motored screwdrivers and a set of bits  (Torx, Philips and then some)  in case you do not want to spend the whole afternoon opening all the screws.  The amount used to keep the housing together is impressive and the result is a keyboard that unlike cheap contraptions is ONE SOLID BLOCK.  You can try to twist  and bend it, it will not give one millimeter and the screws are a very good fit,  they fall in place.
But as you state, the power supply is not a YAMAHA proprietary item. They quite obviously  found out they could spare a dime buy using a standard laptop power supply.  Cheaper than manufacture one themselves as they did on earlier models.  And what surprises, the power supply is just strapped to the bottom and as the standard output cable was too long they just wound up the extra. So it is not an item made to their order but one off the shelf like they are produced in millions. People who have never been working on mass produced items construction cost reduction may not believe:   every penny is scrutinized. That is OK,  but is not very professional to wind up surplus wiring like we do it at home.  They should have shortened it, but then they would have had to re-attach the connector.  Why do I say "unprofessional"  risking being reprimanded.   I have been in target drone manufacturing since 1968  and in electronics one tries to avoid any wound up excess cable lengths because the cable might induce or absorb an electrical fields. The rule is,  make any leads as short as possible. But I am convinced YAMAHA will have tested interference. In this case the cable is no problem. And as a fact i removed it in order to see whether the problems I had were somehow due to this wrap up.  They were not.

Cheers

Kaarlo

[Pianoman]

Hello Everyone.

I want to express my thanks to all of you for your responses.

My intention was to find out if there was a commonality of one or two, perhaps even three things,
that were the deciding factor in buying a Genos. Not 10 or 15 things.
Just 1 to 2, and maybe 3.

Many people may buy a car that includes lane assist, automatic climate control,  cruise control,
distance detection, leather, wood panelling, masaage seats and other assorted goodies.

But when you ask the car owner why he/she really bought the car, it may basically come down to
just the brand, engine power , and suspension or aerodynamics.

It shouldn't be that difficult to pinpoint just 1 to 3 things.

Anyway, I see that this thread is slowly drifting away from my original request, so I want to
express my gratitude already, before we drift any further.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Oymmot]

Hi.
Why, I did not understand better. The best I think would have been that I had saved a lot of money if I did not buy Genos.
It's just as good with my T5 as it does with my Genos.
Now Genos is bought and T5 sold so now there is no return.
The audience does not experience any lift when they want music and there are so small differences between Tyros5 and Genos.
Sorry but that's the reality.
Tommy

[Oymmot]

Hi.
Why, I did not understand better. The best I think would have been that I had saved a lot of money if I did not buy Genos.
It's just as good with my T5 as it does with my Genos.
Now Genos is bought and T5 sold so now there is no return.
The audience does not experience any lift when they want music and there are so small differences between Tyros5 and Genos.
Sorry but that's the reality.
Tommy

[Pianoman]

Thank you Tommy for your honest assessment.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[valimaties]

Tommy, it's only your opinion.   

IMO (and a lot of other Genos users), the sound is much better The possibilities of inserting a bigger number of DSPs, between T5 and Genos, I think it makes the difference in sound quality. If you use The same settings in a style imported from T5 in Genos, yes you don't fell to much difference, but WHY NOT using more DSP if they give us this possibility? EQs, Compresssors, etc
Drum Setup from Style Creator makes a lot of work in "changing sound" of this keyboard, too
This keyboard has to be explored and used as it has to be, not with the limitations that T5 had/has

Why do you change your old car with a new one, more powerfully, if you drive with the same speed?! Maybe because is more luxury  , or it has more protection things?! 

The same thing is here

Regards,
Vali

[Toril S]

Hello Abby The Genos is lighter then the T5, but it does not have a tilted screen. On the other hand, it has better sound. But the T5 is without toucan screen, have a tilted screen, and is familiar, it is a Tyros 3 in a more modern edition. So what to choce? It sounds to me as you like your T3 a lot, but that it is reaching the end of its days. So maybe a T5 would be a good choice for you. Good luck with your choosing of a new instrument. You can make a tin can sound like a grand piano, that is how talented you are. So whatever you choose, good music will come from it! I am hoping to see you in autumn when you come to Trondheim

[Kokoriz]

First Yamaha since PSR9000 in 2000. Trying something different!

[Kytrinh]

Hi.
Why, I did not understand better. The best I think would have been that I had saved a lot of money if I did not buy Genos.
It's just as good with my T5 as it does with my Genos.
Now Genos is bought and T5 sold so now there is no return.
The audience does not experience any lift when they want music and there are so small differences between Tyros5 and Genos.
Sorry but that's the reality.
Tommy

Hi Tommy
Its unfortunate that you feel this way after making a big decision on such an expensive purchase..its hard to let go of something when there isnt any wrong and youve gotten comfortable with it.
At the moment i still have the T5 beneath the Genos and have done enough comparisons to conclude that the technology given the 3/4 year gap has truly advanced bw the T5/Genos.. Not sure what speaker/PA systems people are listening to but i use a pair of Yamaha DSR112s and DXS12 Sub. When amplified I do hear the difference..and its huge
Most often the audience may not even tell the difference bw Karaoke or us sitting on the stage corner, but knowing you have access to the latest and greatest advancements in music making will give you that personal satisfaction.
Give it time Tommy, maybe you will hear the difference when the opportunity presents you with a chance to hear someone else play the T5.
All the best
Ky

[Pianoman]

Tommy is expressing buyer's remorse, as is his right to do so.
He feels that the difference between his T5 and the Genos is small.

He knows what he's talking about, so let him have his say.

After all, he is an owner who has had the luxury of playing his Genos and trying
out all the possibilities, and has come to the conclusion that he could have saved
himself some money by just staying with his T5.

We all make mistakes, and there is nothing wrong with that.

There may probably also be other Genos owners who feel the same way
too, but are hesitant to come out and say so.

We are also straying away from the original intention of this thread.


Best Regards.
Abby.

[mikf]

All the increments between keyboard generations are relatively small so there has always been these comments that it may not be worth changing if it is just a single generation ie T2 to T3 for example.  If you have a perfectly good T5 or maybe even T4 or T3 there may be a legitimate argument that it's nit worth the bother/cost of upgrading to Genos. But if you are in the market for a new keyboard because your current keyboard is old, or just in poor shape, why would you not buy the best available? Why would you buy the previous model? Even if it is just a little difference it's still a difference. So unless the cost difference really matters, it seems s a no brainer.
Mike

[Gunnar Jonny]

  My 2c .....

Regarding the differences between Genos and other Y models, and about buyers feel comfortable use money at it, I think it's mostly about personal taste, use and needs.
Some users / performers mostly play GM midifiles and other playback files, and also do as best as they can to make the new keyboard sound and act like past models, well, then the differences most probably won't be worth the the change or the money spent.

I think each model has it's own signature, and when compare Genos to T4, to me it's a big difference. But, I do all settings from scratch by use of the capability of Genos sounds and styles.
A friend of mine that still gig at regular basis sold his T5 and now play Genos. He do pretty much the same way as me, rebuild his playlist to gain most possible from the Genos. As he say, it's a learning curve and a bit work to do, but it sounds amazing!

The HIGH pricelevel compared to some other brands TOTL series was far too big at the start, and maybe still is, but if anyone ask me, I will say the 'Plastic Fantastic' Genos is the best sounding Yammie arranger 'till now. Also the keyfeel, the new touch screen and OS is in my opinion a BIG step forward. 

[torben]

I needed another kb as I had to place my T5 in my summer apartment in Spain (I normally live in Denmark). That said I must say that the Genos, although it is a great instrument, really is no major upgrade from the T5. And even more complicated to use.

So if you have the choice I would suggest waiting a few years to upgrade ...

Kind greetings

Torben

[Dromeus]

I must say that the Genos, although it is a great instrument, really is no major upgrade from the T5. And even more complicated to use.

Recall that Pianoman would be upgrading from T3, not T5. I did upgrade from T3 to Genos and before doing so, I compiled a list of improvements I'd get when buying a Genos. I found 20 improvements over T3. Note that everybody may come up with a different list, because we all have different requirements depending on the way we use an arranger. So it is not possible for me to pick out 2 or 3 killer features that led me to open the check book.  It was that massive progress in sound and features which results in pure fun using the Genos, and at the end of the day it's the fun that counts.

BTW I find the Genos easier to use. This was not on my list of improvements, it turned out after getting used to the new interface.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

I needed another kb as I had to place my T5 in my summer apartment in Spain (I normally live in Denmark). That said I must say that the Genos, although it is a great instrument, really is no major upgrade from the T5. And even more complicated to use.

So if you have the choice I would suggest waiting a few years to upgrade ...

Kind greetings

Torben

Hej Torben,
Du har rätt  (you have right) as we say in Scandinavia.  I envy you for being able to use two different keyboards. I am working so hard to get the Genos set up to be gig usable in every respect - see my rants - because I for one would not be able to USE  both a Tyros and a Genos alternatively.  My main reason for being in the process of  trying to switch to  Genos is not the sound - I believe like beauty is in the eye of the beholder , sound is in the ear of the listener - it is the weight and size. They make a "weightable" difference to me.

Jag lyfter hatten

Kaarlo

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hi Tommy

.....Most often the audience may not even tell the difference bw Karaoke or us sitting on the stage corner, but knowing you have access to the latest and greatest advancements in music making will give you that personal satisfaction.
Give it time Tommy, maybe you will hear the difference when the opportunity presents you with a chance to hear someone else play the T5.
All the best
Ky

Ky,
thanks for a very good posting. We were talking about beauty the other day and some one quoted that old saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe we should not in the heat of the discussion whether the Genos sounds much better than the Tyros forget that  "sound is in the ear of the listener"  and as you point out,  the satisfaction of "driving the latest model"

Cheers
Kaarlo