Chord Inversions don't alter Accompianment??

[rattley]

Another post talked about AI fingering mode and I tried some of the suggestions in the replies. I usually play full chords with my left hand to trigger the auto-accompaniment.  I guess I've always known this.......but it doesn't matter if you play a C chord  C-E-G  or E-G-C  or  G-C-E.  The accompaniment plays the same pattern.  I seem to remember having another keyboard or module years ago that did play a pattern differently depending on the chord inversion. Maybe it just recognized the chords bass note but the pattern changed. Usually just the bass line changed with the inversion but it could keep a style from getting boring or repetitious.    Does anyone know what I am talking about??  Can this be done on a Genos?

I had a Korg I40m module when they were new. This might be the machine I remember doing this on.  Thanks.  -charley 

[andyg]

Keyboards recognise chords in any inversion by design. If they didn't, then you'd have to jump around the keyboard like crazy to play the chords in root inversions to get the normal bass notes. If you go back to the early 1970s, that's exactly what you had to do when auto-accompaniment first appeared (Hammond Piper, and then dozens of cheap Italian organs!). IIRC, it was Yamaha that got autochord that wasn't inversion sensitive.

I can't recall a keyboard that did what you mention, but it's not impossible. The i40 was a great keyboard in its day and had lots of new features. I can recall keyboards that played different patterns depending on the type of chord played (major, minor, 7th etc) and in the back of my mind something says that the Lowrey MX-1 organ (the first instrument to have orchestrated styles rather than simple strumming) may have also switched when you played different inversions. Haven't played one in years and most are dead by now.

Problem comes these days in that people also want  'on-bass', or 'slash' chords, and in an 'on bass' mode, these have to be in different inversions, which sort of rules out the idea of inversions themselves changing patterns. AI and On Bass modes will usually (always?) keep just to the bass note that is requested by the chord played - C/G will stick to a G bass.

Having inversions play different patterns is a nice idea, and it's one that goes with the idea of major, minor, 7th, minor 7th, diminished and augmented chords all playing different patterns. If we then make the style patterns much longer, and add more variations or sub-variations, we soon find that we need a major rework of the style engine. It could be done, but the work involved with programming any single style would be multiplied many times over. I can't see it happening!

The best you can do to avoid repetitive bass and accompaniment lines is 1) use lots a variation changes 2) use more than one style in a single song 3) use AI mode and play lots of inversions to create your own bass lines. A lot of thought goes into it and a lot of effort to play it and get it right every time. It's something I expect my high end students to do and you can take it as read that it's what examiners listen for at the very highest exam levels.

[panos]

I find Andy's posts really interesting.

Rattley in your case try the "Fingered on Bass" mode on your Keyboard to see if it suits you better.
When you play C-E-G it will recognise it as C
When you play E-G-C it will recognise it as C/E
When you play G-C-E it will recognise it as C/G
and you can hear the difference of how the keyboard plays the same pattern.

But in that mode you should not miss a single finger by mistake,it won't change the chord.
Always got to be at least 3 fingers of the left hand on the keybed in order the keyboard to recognise the chord.

[mikf]

It will not matter if it is AI or fingered on bass, only the bass line will change with inversions, not the other parts of the style - as explained by Andy.
Mike

[panos]

Yes Mike you are right but at least still you can listen a difference.
Also some people like to play with just the drums and bass on and mute the other parts.

To make  other parts patterns to play on the bass note you have to go to style creator
at the parameter tab and choose for the NTR function, Root Trans or Root fixed and Bass on and that part will also change according to the inversions.
Usually the preset syles have this only on the bass part because it will probably sound bad to more complicated patterns.
But maybe if you change some other parts for a specific song with the Bass on there,
they won't sound bad if you play them with the "Fingered on Bass" mode.

[andyg]

Just remember, as I said, that 'On Bass' mode will require you to play all 'normal' chords in root position, so your left hand will be jumping around a a lot - unless you programme the On Bass setting into registrations that you can (very) quickly switch between.

To be blunt, I recommend avoiding On Bass mode completely, as there's (almost) nothing it can do that AI can't do or do so closely that the listener (and most likely the player too) won't notice the difference. I'll give you an example. Occasionally it can do things just a bit easier. Bm/F# crops up in a current G6 exam piece and On Bass lets you play it as F# B D. AI mode requires you to play F# B D F#. Of course in that chord had been B/F#, then On Bass would have needed F# B D#, whereas AI would have needed just F# B.

As for editing the NTR function, that's a thought, but you'd have to ensure that the resulting chords didn't turn out sounding 'muddy'. In real life, if the harmony was C, then C/G, it's almost certain that only the bass player would change, so you probably wouldn't want to alter the setting, but it's worth a try!

[panos]

I prefer the AI figured mode too for the reasons you mentioned Andy,
but with No experiments --> No mistakes --> No progress --> No party! 

Thank you both for your replys and suggestions.