I tested a Genos Yesterday. It was....OK

[Pianoman]

A friend of mine, who also owns a Montage, invited me yesterday to play his Genos,
that he just imported from Germany.

My first focus was on styles that are not included on my T3.
There were many.

I counted at least 32 before I had to leave.

The styles that are also on my T3 appeared reworked and slightly
improved.

I then proceeded to the voices, which obviously were an improvement
on the voices of my T3, but not by too much.

My impression is that they were good, but could have done with a little less
Reverb and other effects.

The screen was impressive both in size and clarity, but I could already
foresee a future problem for me, since it cannot be tilted.

In some of the places I play, the stage or ceiling lights are very bright,
and the ability to tilt the screen to remove glare is a lifesaver, especially
when playing outdoors in midsummer afternoons.

I admit that 2 hours were probably too short, but that's all the time me and my friend
had available yesterday.

I may go back to test it for a longer period next week when I have more
time, and if my friend will be available.

I always look at the practical uses of any instrument I might consider buying,
My instrument is a Workhorse, no more, no less.

I have no emotional bond with any of my instruments.
I reserve that privilege for family, friends, and other living things.

Regarding instruments, it all comes down to numbers and how one uses them.

Is my instrument still delivering the goods?

Will buying another instrument increase my earnings? Or will they stay the same?

Or will they increase anyway, regardless whether I purchase said instrument or not?

The short time spent with the Genos was pleasant, but did not leave me
convinced that a Genos will answer these questions.

Is the Genos good? Yes it's ok.

Am I impressed? Yes, a little bit.

Should I go buy one? I'm not sure.

Maybe another, longer test will provide a different point of view, but for now,
I'm keeping my money.

Best Regards.
Pianoman.

[stephenm52]

Pianoman,  That was a very honest and candid review.  With the way you play and sing I think you'd do justice with just about any arranger.  You're thinking shows you're keeping the intellect over the emotion.   I hope you get another opportunity to play the Genos.

[Pianoman]

Hello Stephen.

Thanks, and good to hear from you. How is it going with the gigs?

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Fred Smith]

If you want your new keyboard to have the styles of your old keyboard, you'll always be disappointed.

An easy workaround is to simply copy the old keyboard's styles for use on the new. That's what I did when I moved from my T4 to a Genos.

Fred

[Gunnar Jonny]

............""
Is the Genos good? Yes it's ok.

Am I impressed? Yes, a little bit.

Should I go buy one? I'm not sure.

Maybe another, longer test will provide a different point of view, but for now,
I'm keeping my money.

When read your 'review' I got a feeling that if you should swap your T3, you would most likely be superhappy with T5 ...  

[travlin-easy]

Glad you had the opportunity to test the Genos and I'm sure you will find more things that you will like with another test. I was very impressed with the drums and the live sounds it provided, which I gleaned from just hearing demos on you tube. I'm sure it would sound even better in your hands.

Gary

[Pianoman]

If you want your new keyboard to have the styles of your old keyboard, you'll always be disappointed.

An easy workaround is to simply copy the old keyboard's styles for use on the new. That's what I did when I moved from my T4 to a Genos.

Fred

I think you didn't read my post properly, or read it too hastily.

I was interested in styles that my keyboard does NOT have.

Best Regards.
Pianoman.

[Pianoman]

Glad you had the opportunity to test the Genos and I'm sure you will find more things that you will like with another test. I was very impressed with the drums and the live sounds it provided, which I gleaned from just hearing demos on you tube. I'm sure it would sound even better in your hands.

Gary

Hello Gary.

I hope you're keeping well.

I gave the keyboard a quick work over, but I had to go set up my gear
in a nearby hotel, so I left after a little less than 2 hours.

I've mentioned this friend before.
He's a hobby musician, with a ton of money and plenty of toys.

He usually gets bored with his musical purchases after a while.
Hopefully he'll tire of the Genos soon, then we can make a deal.

I've started gigging now.
It's a trickle that wil soon turn into a flood in another month or so.

I've also been insurance shopping.
Most venues require musicians to have a civil liability insurance now.

I'll try to give it another test in a week or so.
This was an unplanned test.

I'll go prepared, and give it a good thrashing.

I'm usually left to my own devices there, while the guy is busy inventing
ways to get richer.

Loved the videos you sent.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Lloyd E]

Two hours to test the Genos is certainly not really a test for the Genos. The menu on the Genos would take that long if you looked at all the features. Hope you go back and
have time to really test the Genos.  You will find that the more you play the more you will begin to hear the superior sounds and styles. Lloyd

[stephenm52]

Hello Stephen.

Thanks, and good to hear from you. How is it going with the gigs?

Best Regards.
Abby.

Abby,  Good to see you posting here.  Below is a reply I wrote in another thread when Guitpic said he was lovin' his Genos:

NO, I don't like mine at all I think I'm going to sell it.............on April Fools Day.



Of course I say that in jest, I'm lovin my Genos too.  I had it out for another gig this week not only is the sound great but as a live performers arranger it's proving at least in my eyes to be the best of Yamaha arrangers.  I've said this many times the playlist feature is the "goose that laid the golden egg."   I choose a playlist usually about 35 to 40 songs for my 1 hour gigs with that limited number I don't have to scroll too far in the list to pick a tune to play during the hour.  What's great is I pick the tune load it and have the Genos pull up the corresponding lead sheet on the iPad or if I happen to use a midi file, I set the Genos screen to pull up lyrics.   As much as I love the Pa4x for live playing Yamaha has stepped up to the plate and has given we senior venue players some great tools.

[Pianoman]

Two hours to test the Genos is certainly not really a test for the Genos. The menu on the Genos would take that long if you looked at all the features. Hope you go back and
have time to really test the Genos.  You will find that the more you play the more you will begin to hear the superior sounds and styles. Lloyd

Hello Lloyd.


What you say is true, that 2 hours were not enough.
I'll try and make some more time next week.


On another note.

In June 2010, I wandered into a music store for cables, and they had a Tyros 3,
a keyboard  I had never heard of until that moment.

I tested the Tyros for a Full 20 MINUTES, walked over to the dealer, and
bought it on the spot.

This was a demo keyboard that must have been in the shop for God
knows how long.

I didn't care, I bought it on the spot.
The dealer was so astonished, he even threw in the speakers for free.

It has been reliable and trustworthy for all these years.
Not once did it freeze up and embarrass me in front of a crowd.

This is the keyboard that I'm still using, that has helped me keep my family
cared for and well fed for the last 10 years.

I seek different things in a keyboard than most other users here.

While many will be content to have this thing sit in their living room for months
or years, mine will be on the road 28 days per month.

I look at practicality, reliability, ease of setting up and manipulation first.

Followed by whether it would involve extra costs, such as a new stand, case,
pedals, cables (some keyboards have outputs on a different side) etc.

The fact that the screen cannot be tilted is already a small negative for me.

I play both a Stage Piano and an Arranger, sitting down.

Thus I cannot shift position as easily as someone who plays standing up,
when being blinded by stage lights.
.
Though great voices may be useful, I am not as enamored by these things as
some others appear to be.

As i have said in my original post above, I have no emotional attachment
to keyboards.

They are tools, serving a different purpose according to each user.

Most keyboards have reasonably good sounding voices anyway, even my T3.

The styles would be more important for me than the voices.

As much as we may love the voices, we must be honest with ourselves,
and admit that the biggest reason that we buy arrangers is for the styles.

That is why they are called Arrangers, for the styles and arrangements.

I have neither opened, nor shut the door on this keyboard.

My friend called to say he has one, and I went to see what the
Hullabaloo was all about.

I couldn't stay long, because work called, but I'll try to dedicate at least half a day
on my next test.

Time and my friend permitting.

Best Regards.
Pianoman.

[Eric, B]

Hi Abby,
One thing I noticed with myself and others is that we get used to a certain sound and use that as a measure for others.
When you turn on the Genos you hear a familiar Yamaha sound and the brain says it's the same.
Many members here stated that only after a week or two with the instrument in their hands they could hear the difference which was quite a step up.
I am curious to what sound system you listened to?
To Me the T3 compared to the Genos is like listening to an MP3 vs HD sound.
Yes it sounds the same. But it doesn't. Does that make sense?
Quite a few people here and on other forums stated that their audiences could hear a difference in sound.
I had the T3 and it is certainly a fantastic board. I always make every KB my own by EQing it etc.
However, like you I like to play high energy dance music.
For that you need good drums, good bass and a good groove.
Now I am not saying that the T3 does not have that.
But for me the Genos for the first time sounds like a real live band.
Besides playing I also like to go out and listen to bands play.
The Genos for the first time gives me that feel.
The Revo drums alone kick ass ...
As you said: maybe your friend will get tiered of it . Win, win...
To me the Genos is very inspiring. Once you get used to those amazing SA2 voices you can't go back.
They are so intuitive and realistic ...
Everything sounds so vibrant and alive compared to older models.
The live controls, 76 keys, etc, etc.
There is so much improvement, but it takes time to figure it all out and appreciate it.
Either way I know you'll do the right thing that will suit your needs.
Just my observations.
Kind Regards
Eric

[beykock]

Why should you shoot a winning horse like your T3 ?

Your customers will not offer you a better price for playing a newer keyboard model, I guess.
They are only interested in hearing good music, dancing and having fun.

IMHO, Babette

[travlin-easy]

Abby, one of the things that really helped me while performing was a special stool that I purchased locally. While it was designed for guitar players, it worked perfectly for playing the keyboard, even when I was performing with two, stacked keyboards. Everything is adjustable, seat height, backrest, footrest, which allowed my to be positioned higher than I would have been with a normal chair or piano stool, thereby providing me better eye contact with the audience. Additionally, it also provided me with a better view of the keyboard screen and pretty much eliminated any glare from overhead lighting.



Not sure if they have this in your part of the world, and if it were not cost prohibitive to ship it to you, I would gladly send you mine as I no longer have a need for it. It is a Quicklok D-749. Sells for about $150 US here.

All the best,

Gary 

[Pianoman]

Hello Eric.

I listened to the Genos through a good pair of Sennheiser Headphones.

I am not comparing the Genos to my T3.

They are two entirely different keyboards, yet some things remained
strangely familiar.

I think that everyone will interpret my comments the way it suits them.
Like interpreting  THE BOOK, a speech or a sermon.

One Gentleman thought that I want the Genos to have the styles of the T3.
I was looking for styles that are NOT in the T3.

New styles give birth to new ideas, inspiration for different songs,
which in turn foster creativity.

I think I counted up to 32 before I had to leave to set up my gear in a nearby venue.
I am sure that there are many more.

I have tested this keyboard through very good headphones, and have
noted a bit of improvement over the T3 sounds.

The reworked styles that I'm familiar with from the T3 also sounded
slightly improved.

As for audiences, I work with audiences everyday, they will answer appropriately
when you ask them a leading question, or make a leading comment.

With the background racket in venues, waiters serving, people dancing,
laughter, conversation, screaming, glasses tinkling, doors opening and closing,
people coming and going, and all other kinds of distractions,
Audiences will notice nothing, no matter what people may want to believe.

I recommend a book called "The Emperor's New Clothes" where everybody
applauded the Emperor's new clothes, when in fact he was wearing nothing,
they were too scared to tell him.

There's no doubt that the Genos is a good Arranger, but it's important to
keep things real,and not go overboard with the praise.

Let's save a bit for the next keyboard..

I have read a comment, which I believe to be true, that technology has reached
such high levels in recent years , that it is almost impossible to make a huge
technological leap anymore.

Instead, you have incremental improvements, and that's what we're looking at here.

All PSRs, Tyroses, and other keyboards manufactured over the last 9 years or so, have
a highly sophisticated sound, that is more than sufficient for most listeners.

Every successor will bring improvements, not dramatic, but improvements nevertheless.

Like I said in my original post, my focus is more on practicality and reliability than
the shiny bells and whistles that may attract others.

A careful read of it will make things a bit more clear.

I will ask my friend if he can let me try his Genos for at least half a day next week.
And I'll have to make time for it myself as well.

And yes, I also hope that my friend will tire of his Genos soon.
He sold a 50,000 € BMW X5 for 9000€ in 2016.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Pianoman]

Abby, one of the things that really helped me while performing was a special stool that I purchased locally. While it was designed for guitar players, it worked perfectly for playing the keyboard, even when I was performing with two, stacked keyboards. Everything is adjustable, seat height, backrest, footrest, which allowed my to be positioned higher than I would have been with a normal chair or piano stool, thereby providing me better eye contact with the audience. Additionally, it also provided me with a better view of the keyboard screen and pretty much eliminated any glare from overhead lighting.



Not sure if they have this in your part of the world, and if it were not cost prohibitive to ship it to you, I would gladly send you mine as I no longer have a need for it. It is a Quicklok D-749. Sells for about $150 US here.

All the best,

Gary 

Looks very interesting Gary.

I'll check with Thomann, I'm almost certainly that they will have it.
.
A great suggestion.

Thanks

Best Regards.
Abby.

PS: This is the closest to your stool that I could find. In the 150€ range.


https://m.thomann.de/gb/mey_chair_systems_afsrklah_bk.htm?o=71&search=1521928266

[rattley]

................ "I have no emotional bond with any of my instruments."

Really?  I've always considered any instrument I have played as an extension of myself. There is some kind of emotional attachment when I get all teary eyed when I play or listen to someone else play.  Sometimes the most beautiful music flows from me and my instrument.  Last week I heard someone playing an old bass accordion. The way the lower registers harmonics pumped out chords gave me goose bumps. Things were "just the right amount"  out of tune for a hauntingingly beautiful performance. The look on this musicians face was pure emotion and it radiated outward from his performance.  If that ain't emotion I will eat my hat!!  Best wishes!  Glad you got to try a Genos.  -charley

[Eric, B]

Hi Abby,
I do respect your view of course
I also belief I read your post carefully.
That's why I said at the end that it was just my observation that I wanted to share.
Isn't that why we are on this forum?
To share our opinions? Which of course differ from one another.
That doesn't mean that we don't understand were you are coming from.
I agree with you that each new KB had in some way small changes.
That's why I usually skip a generation or two.
I did not go for the T5 for that reason.
However if your theory is true that each KB has incremental changes which are small then going from T3 to Genos should be a little bigger then just small as they are 3 generations up.
I find for myself that even a good pair of headphones can never give me the same sound impression as a good PA.
For that reason I do hope that your friend lets you try the KB through your PA.
I also agree with you that in a noisy place things get drowned.
It would be interesting to see whether the Genos with it's Revo drums and better base cuts through the noise better.
I am sure you'll keep us posted.
You said that the KB is just a tool for you. Would an improved sound and newer better styles give you more joy playing or wouldn't it matter that much to you?
Just trying to see were you are coming from.
Somehow I sort of have the feeling that you already have made up your mind.
It kind of shows in some of your previous posts which weren't in favor of the Genos.
As long as you are happy with what you have there is no reason to change.
And your joy comes certainly through every YouTube video.
Either way, good luck whatever you decide.
You are doing what you love to do: entertain.
That's what it's all about.
Kind Regards
Eric

[Pianoman]

C'mon Charley.

The instrument may be an extension of you or me when we play it.
I totally agree with that.

I still have no emotional attachment to an instrument. It is two different things.
You know exactly what I'm trying to say.

Some people talk about their Genos like it's a new girlfriend or a family member.

One even claimed that it's a gift from God.

That's not normal man. In fact it's outright weird.

I have an emotional attachment to my parents, family and friends.
Not a keyboard.

I have been a professional musician since the age of 16.
It's what I do, I know nothing else, and have done nothing else.

Most evenings when many people here may be peacefully resting at home,
I'll probably be somewhere entertaining people, with vigour and passion.

My passion for what I do is second to none, and has allowed me to travel across half
the world.

I have lived and worked in many European capitals and places like Dubai.

As a result of having lived and worked in many European capitals,
I am absolutely fluent in 6 European languages.

My passion shows in my playing, and that has carried me to most corners of the world
for all these years.

And I will still say that I have no emotional attachment to an instrument.

It is a tool that I use to earn a living.
And while doing that, I  thoroughly enjoy myself.
I do not whisper endearments to it, or celebrate it's birthday though.

Best Regards.
Pianoman.

[guitpic1]

Perhaps folks are over thinking Genos.

Genos is a keyboard.  Works great for some(like me), works o.k. for others, some are not sure and others, for whatever reason want something else.

Make it simple.

If it works great for you, and you can afford it, buy it.

If it's only o.k, or you aren't sure...don't buy it or wait till you have enough time on it to decide.

If you don't like it...don't buy it.

Just a thought.   

By the way, I'm one who thinks Music is a gift and an instrument is a way to both enjoy and share that gift.

[Pianoman]

Hello again Eric.

I hear you and respect your opinion and your wisdom too.

I have already noticed from a while back that you are a very well informed man.

My respect.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Eric, B]

Hello again Eric.

I hear you and respect your opinion and your wisdom too.

I have already noticed from a while back that you are a very well informed man.

My respect.

Best Regards.
Abby.

Hi Abby,
Thank you for your kind words.
I feel the same about you.
And respect you as well.
Anybody who lived in more than one country has a different world view.
You have experienced a lot of different things.
So far I count two under my belt ...
But who knows there is hope ...
All the best
Eric

[Pianoman]

Hello Guitpic.

Thanks for your reply.

I gave a brief assessment of the Genos based on an unplanned occasion to try
it out at a friend's house, with his assistance on the board's workings.

I have stressed several times that 2 hours was not enough to give a full assessment
of this keyboard, and will try, time permitting, to have it for at least half a day,
if not for a full day.

It depends too on the owner of the keyboard, whether he will have the time.

My friend's house is also a more relaxed place for testing than at the music store,
which still doesn't have a Genos anyway.

I did say that I'm not sure about the Genos at this point, and that further testing is
needed.

I did not say anywhere in this thread however, that I like or dislike the instrument.

I did talk about emotional attachment to an instrument, a different thing which
quickly became misunderstood.

It is very difficult for me to become emotionally attached to, or idolize an instrument.

Sometimes we need to put things and our values in perspective.

I can idolize my mother, who brought me into this world in a very dangerous time
and place.

That was a worthy act of courage and sacrifice.

Then there are other family members, friends, etc, that I'm emotionally attached to.

Not a musical instrument.

We should stop getting worked up every time a not so glowing assessment of our
instrument appears.

Obviously, this does not refer to any particular person, I'm only speaking in general terms,
about a general trend.


Best Regards.
Abby.

[Pianoman]

Abby,  Good to see you posting here.  Below is a reply I wrote in another thread when Guitpic said he was lovin' his Genos:

NO, I don't like mine at all I think I'm going to sell it.............on April Fools Day.



Of course I say that in jest, I'm lovin my Genos too.  I had it out for another gig this week not only is the sound great but as a live performers arranger it's proving at least in my eyes to be the best of Yamaha arrangers.  I've said this many times the playlist feature is the "goose that laid the golden egg."   I choose a playlist usually about 35 to 40 songs for my 1 hour gigs with that limited number I don't have to scroll too far in the list to pick a tune to play during the hour.  What's great is I pick the tune load it and have the Genos pull up the corresponding lead sheet on the iPad or if I happen to use a midi file, I set the Genos screen to pull up lyrics.   As much as I love the Pa4x for live playing Yamaha has stepped up to the plate and has given we senior venue players some great tools.

Hello again Stephen.

I had to scroll up again to find your reply.

It seems like you are having quite a good time with your Genos 
That makes me happy for you.


Best Regards.
Abby.

[Eric, B]

Hello Guitpic.

Thanks for your reply.

I gave a brief assessment of the Genos based on an unplanned occasion to try
it out at a friend's house, with his assistance on the board's workings.

I have stressed several times that 2 hours was not enough to give a full assessment
of this keyboard, and will try, time permitting, to have it for at least half a day,
if not for a full day.

It depends too on the owner of the keyboard, whether he will have the time.

My friend's house is also a more relaxed place for testing than at the music store,
which still doesn't have a Genos anyway.

I did say that I'm not sure about the Genos at this point, and that further testing is
needed.

I did not say anywhere in this thread however, that I like or dislike the instrument.

I did talk about emotional attachment to an instrument, a different thing which
quickly became misunderstood.

It is very difficult for me to become emotionally attached to, or idolize an instrument.

Sometimes we need to put things and our values in perspective.

I can idolize my mother, who brought me into this world in a very dangerous time
and place.

That was a worthy act of courage and sacrifice.

Then there are other family members, friends, etc, that I'm emotionally attached to.

Not a musical instrument.

We should stop getting worked up every time a not so glowing assessment of our
instrument appears.

Obviously, this does not refer to any particular person, I'm only speaking in general terms,
about a general trend.


Best Regards.
Abby.

Well said Abby,
I think we forget all to often where people come from, their back ground and what they have been through.
It puts different value on things.
I almost lost my home twice in the recent California wild fire and was evacuated for two weeks.
For a moment we didn't even know if we made it out alive ..
Then we had terrible mud slights after the first storm and lost a lot of friends and family.
It puts things in perspective as what is important in life.
As much as I enjoy my Genos I am with you on Family and Friends.
Thank you
Eric

[Pianoman]

Oh man, Eric

I saw those wildfires on television here, and the mud slides too.

That was terrible. It would have been bad enough to lose your home,
but the loss of family and friends is absolutely terrible and tragic.

I'm glad that you made it alive.

Thank you for seeing eye to eye with me on the point I was trying to make.

It IS very important to put things in perspective, and adjust our values accordingly.

Sometimes we forget about the things that really matter, because of our constant
pursuit of shiny objects.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Eric, B]

Thank you Abby.
Again, well said.
Eric

[keynote]

I owned a Tyros 3 for several years and I enjoyed it a lot. It had a few Super Articulation 2 voices and it was probably the best sounding arranger when it was released in 2008. Times change and technology advances so I decided to get the Genos based on the sounds and the features it has. As a performing musician the Genos will pay for itself over time. The question is whether you want the latest greatest that Yamaha has to offer? And will the investment meet the needs you have from a musical standpoint. If the answer is no then the Tyros 3 will suffice since that is what you are familiar with. On the other hand if the answer is yes then the Genos is more than capable of fulfilling your musical needs but it would take time to familiarize yourself with this new keyboard. The Genos has a better DAC (digital to analog converter) and if you sing that is important especially if you combine it with a decent microphone. And don't forget there is phantom power on-board the Genos so there is no need for an external phantom power device to lug around if you use a condenser microphone. Loading and transferring files is quicker on the Genos too. For example loading audio files is much quicker. Also the Playlist feature is more sophisticated than the Tyros 3 Music Finder. In fact if you want to you can also import the Tyros 3/4/5 Music Finder into the Genos. The Genos has many more stellar voices to choose from so if you want greater authenticity of instrument sounds the Genos has your bases covered in that regard.

It all boils down to what your needs are and what your budget is. If money is no object and it meets your needs, from a musical standpoint, then I would highly recommend the upgrade. On the other hand, if you are happy with the Tyros 3 and there is no pressing need to upgrade then by all means keep the Tyros 3 and maybe wait until Genos 2 or Korg PA5x comes out and decide accordingly if one of those will be worth your time and money.

Best regards,

Mike   

[gdc]

I have owned all the Tyros models except the T1 and now play the Genos. I use it at home but also on gigs where the audience is quiet and attentive. This makes a huge difference. I am constantly blown away at the difference between the Genos sounds and my previous Tyros models. Every time I fire up the Genos, I discover sounds that really impress. Playing in a club or other noisy environment - it doesn't really matter if you have a Genos or one of the Tyros models. Nobody is listening all that critically. But in a super quiet place with a great audience, the Genos shines through wonderfully. I really am glad I moved up from the T5. Just sayin'
Graeme

[Toril S]

Hello Abby. Take your time deciding. You and your T3 are a tried and trusted team.You are a wonderful musician, and I believe you can get the best out of any instrument!  As for getting attached to instruments, I am in that cathegory  I have purchased a soft cover for my S970 so as not to get so much dust on it while not playing. So, in a way, I tuck it in, but I don't sing a lullaby to it LOL!