How much of a real difference in styles?

[ekurburski]

OK, I'm blown away with all of the conversions of styles allowing me to play the styles from newer kbs on my 3000.  The question comes up if I can play a Geno's style on my 3000 how do I justify the purchase of a Geno's or any TOL KB when I can add great sounds with a controller kb and virtual synths for solo work.  I can add protools first which has xpand 2 for free!

Earl

[Ed B]

Earl
You have to take and play any new keyboard when you are planning to upgrade. You will find the styles will sound much better and you will have many more features to enhance your performance. Then its a trade-off.
Regards
Ed B

[Toril S]

Hello Earl! On my old PSR 2100 I could only play SFF1 styles, and had to use floppy disks. On my S970 I still have all my beloved SFF1 styles from my old keyboard, and in addition I don't have to be limited by floppies any more, and I have the audio recorder and many other functions. But you are right, I guess you can do a lot of things with computer programs, and you have the 3000. If I remember correctly that keyboard has USB. I still think my 2100 sounded better in some ways than my S970, so I am keeping it as a backup keyboard.
All the best, Toril S

[ekurburski]

hey, Toril.   Thats interesting. your 2100 sounds better than the 970!

[Pino]

I have the 3000, 910, 950 and 970 side by side in my studio sometimes

It really depends what music you want to play

If I want Big Band, orchestral or smooth ballads
Then the older keyboards are better, warmer sound

If modern music or guitars, then the S970 sounds better,

And it's easy to load any style even from the new Genos
You just need something like StyleMagic/ mixmaster,

Pino

[Toril S]

You are right Pinos! That is why I am keeping my 2100.

[Patrick]

Hi Toril, i've also had a PSR S2100, a great keyboard with some nice sounds; the only problem was the floppies; the keyboard is very nice and well made! I've then had the PSR 3000 and i've had a lot of difficulties to have the same sounds quality on it; After a few weeks the PSR 3000 was fantastic (settings of the EQ.) But the 2100 is always my best one!
Have a nice sunday Patrick

[Toril S]

Hello Patrick. Yes, it is tiresome with those floppies. But the sounds are fantastic. A nice weekend to you too😀

[ekurburski]

I see I'm going to have to set up my 740 and the 3000 side by side and do a comparison.

[Toril S]

Absolutely!

[mikf]

The psr3000 was a very good keyboard. There were many features and improvements over the years that added up, but you are correct, with a controller keyboard and nice sound system the 3k performed well. Justifying the cost of an upgrade is a very personal decision and I don't think anyone else can tell you whether it's worth it or not.
Mike

[markstyles]

The strength and justification of a Genos, (at least one of the examples) are the 'mega-voices'.. The Genos has more than any previous Yamaha arranger. . It makes use of velocities, to trigger different samples, and extremely high notes to trigger 'extraneous sounds'..  They certainly make the sound more realistic.. While a lot of 'virtual instruments' and other hardware machines, do something similar.. You should check that aspect out more.

The 'mega-voices' have to be played by the Genos Style generator or a sequencer.. Although, it would be possible for someone to write a script, or a possible future update for Genos, to make them hand playable. (using the modulation stick, to move thru the different samples)

After checking this, you can then decide if this feature is worth the price for you. For some styles of music, the mega-voices are not critical or even desirable. For other styles of music, they are definitely a step forward in the evolution more sophisticated music. The additional DSP's are great, although other KBD products, made the jump to more DSP's a while ago..

In the end, only you can decide what's best for you. The style of music you do, how you use the equipment (play live, one man band etc, studio work)..  other hardware, virtual instuments you use, etc. All the arranger kbds, are different beasts, and it takes some expertise, to get the most out of it. 

Years ago, Korg made a very powerful kbd, called the 'Oasys'.. It was $10K. It featured several types of sound generation.  I loved it, but it was too expensive for me.  My solution was to buy some 'virtual instruments', and play thru a computer, along with my Tyros (I forget what # they were at then).. It was frustrating, and took a while to come to this decision. but it was the best for me.

When I became aware of the Tyros (Tyros 3 was my first)..  I just had to have it.  I have purchased each succeeding model, through Frank at  Audio Works in Conn.  making a down payment before they actually come out, and get a further discount.

At other points, instead of buying the newest and the best, I go back, google on the internet, and sometimes discover something more I can do with an old instrument I already have.. What you want/need vs your $$$ are the key factors, and you have to balance them.. For almost all my life, I made my living thru music, so hardware was a business expense, I could write off on taxes.. Now retired, $$$$ is more of an issue.. and that brings us to one of the key decision makers - how much are you willing to spend for having the FUN to make the best music you can?

One of the sweetest joys, in a new instrument, is pulling up a patch, or style, and it compels/inspires you to write a new song.

Hope this is helpful.

[Toril S]

Agreed. But you can download all SFF1 stuyles from the forum, and they sound great on 2100/3000 keyboards. As mentioned, the floppies with their little storage space is a little annoying, but you can manage. In some ways I still think my 2100 sounds better then my 970! So I keep it.

Royce, I also miss the lost posts from older keyboards, so I guess we have to start writing there again.

[DrakeM]

A PSR-3000 keyboard uses the SFF1 style format as I recall. So, any Genos styles that use MEGA voices (which I believe the majority of them now use) can not be played in a PSR-3000 keyboard.

I had a PSR-2000 keyboard and converted hundreds of SFF2 styles to work in SFF1 keyboards (such as the PSR-3000). What I had to do for each of the MEGA voices that a NEWER SFF2 style used (as a guitar voice for example) I have to TOTALLY replace that guitar phase (ie delete it) and copy and paste a guitar phrase from some other SFF1 style (or in some cases create my own guitar pattern).

In short, you can't get a true Genos style to work in a PSR-3000 keyboard without putting in at minimum of one hour's worth of work.

Lucky for me that when my PSR-2000 died and I purchase a PSR-S950, Yamaha had added all the MEGA guitar voices to the PSR line in this model. They also had just up graded the vocal harmonizer to the the new VH2 system. It was perfect timing in my case.

Yamaha up graded their styles to now use the NEW Genos drummer in the styles. This now makes it an issue for using the Genos styles in any of the keyboards other than the T5 ( I don't know about the S970). These newer styles are not compatible for using the VH2 when using them, of course if you don't use the VH2, you will not notice any problem.

Long story short, if you're happy with what you have, keep it until it quits on you. But if you can afford to, it is past time to step up to a newer keyboard. 

Regards
Drake

[Toril S]

We tend to forget all the work that goes into modifying styles for other keyboards! All respect to those of you who do spend your time and energy on it!! Admirable. I take my hat off!

[ekurburski]

I love all the comments to my original post as they are most informative.  I also wonder if I really need 10000 styles.  I think I saw a post somewhere by one of the performers that stated  he only used a total of 20 styles to play all the way through all of his gigs.  Maybe, I just need to practice some more and learn more of the features the 3000 has.  Fact is, I really have no choice.  Momma has said NO more keyboards!  And, the truth is I don't have a clue as to how to use 90% of the 3000's features yet.  I've had some medical problems and haven't been able to practice at all.  Right now my plan is still to put together a show for the nursing homes and start gigging again.  Then I'll squirrel away half of what I make until I can buy the latest model.  Going out with the 3000 in this area (Northern Arkansas) should be no problem.  I could go out with the 740 and have more than anyone else working in my area.  Thing is, I need to work up arrangements that don't sound automatic but authentic. I know that the mega voices on the newer models makes this much easier to do but the 3000 has some of those voices and with practice I should be able to have some very authentic sounding tunes to present.  Just gotta get out of bed and get to it!  But again, I love all of your comments and opinions.

[Toril S]

Earl, no you don't need 10000 styles! All the 14 years I played my 2100 I only used the internal styles, but the last couple of months I downloaded styles for it from this forum and felt like I got a new keyboard! I like to make melodies, and it was very inspiring to find new styles. For me it is like this: I can listen to 200 styles, and out of them maybe I find 5 that I really like to use.
Many styles are very similar, just some changes in OTS settings or volume. Some are too boring, or to busy and noisy - all in my opinion, - but sometimes I find a real gem, a style that says to me: Please make a tune using me! Or I find a style that is perfect for a song I want to play. I understand that the 3000 has USB, so that will make it a little easier to load new styles. Finding new styles on this forum really made me happy, because I could update my dear old 2100, and now I will never part with it!

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

It really depends what music you want to play....If I want Big Band, orchestral or smooth ballads....Then the older keyboards are better, warmer sound.....

Pino

Thanks Pino,
you helped me understand why I could not understand some  claims about  a keyboard sounding so much better than another one. It really depends on what music you want to play....Older keyboards have, warmer sound.....

Cheers

Kaarlo