Genos...a few thoughts

[guitpic1]

This is posted on another forum as well.

I've had my Genos a little over a month. Been putting about two hours a day, minimum, on it since I got it. Had my first gig with it yesterday.

Genos is different than any keyboard I've had in the past.

First off, it's 76 Keys....I've come to love that feature.

Genos has few dedicated buttons or sliders...almost everything can be assigned. I like that feature but it can also be a bit strange.

For instance, there's no dedicated fader button. I didn't think about that when I set up my master registration. So, on each of the 250 songs/registrations I have done, if I want the fader function, I have to go back and set that up on each song.

In other words, there's very few Global settings. This can be both a blessing and a curse. So far, for me, I like the assignable features so it's more a blessing.

One thing that's interesting...Playlist works much like Songbook on the PA4X. If I edit a song on a playlist, it refers back to the original registration. That means that a song I edit on one playlist will update on other playlists that have that song. At least that's what it looks like now.

Regarding Genos vocal processing, Yamaha must have updated it because it sounds as good(dare I say better?)to me as the TC Helicon.

Voices and styles are so good sounding to me that I enjoy hearing them as much as the audience does.   

I read complaints/concerns about Genos on other forums. I wonder how many of those concerns are just tied to not understanding how Genos works?

The Genos is pricey but it's obvious Yamaha put thought into this keyboard. The biggest thing I see is that with the many assignable features, and updated OS, and the abilities to upgrade voices, styles etc, I can end up with a new keyboard from time to time....without actually having to buy a new keyboard.

I guess what I'm saying...nice job Yamaha on the Genos.   

[gdc]

I agree with you completely. I came from a T5 and I find, with the Genos, I'm playing it a lot more just because it sounds so good. There is so much presence in the voices, it's a joy to hear. Now that I'm used to the touch screen and menus, it feels like second nature to use. I just assigned the fade function to the button on the left that's in the same position as on the T5. Works like a charm. Fabulous keyboard!
Graeme

[Pianoman]

Hello Guitpic.

I applaud your fair, honest, and straightforward
assessment of the Genos.
Admirably without the defensiveness that sometimes
accompanies this subject.

I wish you many years of fun and joy with your Genos.

Best Regards.
Pianoman.

[EileenL]

Hi Guitpic,
   A very nice positive post. I have reassigned quite a few things which make the keyboard a lot easier to find things. I also like the fact that you can save on board styles to Favorites which saves a lot of time trying to remember which section you heard that style in that you know want to use. Great keyboard

[rattley]

Even though I've had my Genos since December I still find onboard styles I haven't tried or spent much time with. Last night I was in a Latin mood and spent 3 hours going thru the styles in that folder. As with so many of the other onboard styles I really marveled at many of them. Just the overall mix and balance of the accompaniment is stunning. Especially the drums. Everything just sounds so much more live than Tyros 5 did.  Even the right hand OTS voices seem to be more carefully chosen and balanced. I seldom have to change any style or melody volumes on the fly as in the past.

In case you can't tell...........I love this keyboard and am so happy to have been able to upgrade from a Tyros 5.  My Tyros 5 was delivered to the buyer yesterday. I hope he doesn't read this post !!        LOL     -charley

[Gloria]

GUITPICKER 1, GREME, EILEEN & CHARLEY - I'd like to buy a Genos, but I like to "try before I buy."  I live in a city of
600 thousand people & there is not one music store that has a Genos.  I'd like to thank you for all the information you've mentioned in your posts on PSR Tutorial, I've learned more from you than I have from any salesman in any music store!

Regards to all,
Gloria

[stephenm52]

I can only echo the comments of others here the Genos is a fantastic keyboard.  The Playlist feature for my live gigs is a bonus as is the 10 registration buttons.   I too have reassigned various buttons actually it made the most. Sense to me to. Add the "F" button as the fade button.  Love this board.


P.S. If you don't want to get by the Genos bug, do not demo one. 

[keynote]

I assigned Fade In/Fade Out to the Rotary SP/Assignable button. I use a Yamaha FC7 expression pedal to engage the organ rotary slow/fast speed.

Mike

[Fred Smith]

GUITPICKER 1, GREME, EILEEN & CHARLEY - I'd like to buy a Genos, but I like to "try before I buy."  I live in a city of
600 thousand people & there is not one music store that has a Genos.  I'd like to thank you for all the information you've mentioned in your posts on PSR Tutorial, I've learned more from you than I have from any salesman in any music store!

Gloria,

If you're still in the Phoenix area, you can try mine.

Fred

[manuel]

Hello Gloria and Fred....

I also live in the Phoenix Area, and I had my Genos since November....I also play at some Senior dances in Scottsdale, Sun City, Mesa, Sun City West, etc....
You also can try mine or I can demo it to you, I demo for Yamaha at the NAMM shows.


Manuel

[Gloria]

Hi Manuel, it's great to hear from you again.  I'd heard from Crown Music in Sun City but decided over 100 mi. was just too far.  I have reconnected with Guitar Center in Scottsdale to get your schedule at their store, so hopefully I'll see you some day this wk?

Thank you for replying through PSR TUTORIAL - a great forum!

Gloria 

[Gloria]

Hi Fred, thank you for the offer to try the Genos, Guitar Center is only a mi., so I'll go there.  Please say hello to your wife from me; things have changed since we had you both over to the house,  Luther passed away suddenly 4 yrs.

Regards, Gloria

[reya]

For instance, there's no dedicated fader button. I didn't think about that when I set up my master registration. So, on each of the 250 songs/registrations I have done, if I want the fader function, I have to go back and set that up on each song.

In other words, there's very few Global settings. This can be both a blessing and a curse.

Hi Guitpic1

About these global settings ...

The way I use registration memory ....
When making my master registration file, I check all options when saving settings to a button. So the maximum keyboard setup is saved there.

When making song registration files however, I only check the options of which I know that I regularly change them per song ....

Currently "Assignable buttons" "Live control" , "Line Out" .... are not checked when saving song registrations. (that may change in time a I get more familiar with Genos)
Now when I need to make a global change on one of these settings, I just need to load my master registration, make the change I want, update it to my master registration and I am done .
After that the change is implemented in all songs ....

There are probably other ways, but this works fine for me .

Regards
Rudy

[guitpic1]

Tx Rudy

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

I've had my Genos a little over a month. Been putting about two hours a day, minimum, on it since I got it. Had my first gig with it yesterday.
Genos is different than any keyboard I've had in the past.......


Genos has few dedicated buttons or sliders...almost everything can be assigned. I like that feature but it can also be a bit strange.

For instance, there's no dedicated fader button. I didn't think about that when I set up my master registration. So, on each of the 250 songs/registrations I have done, if I want the fader function, I have to go back and set that up on each song.

In other words, there's very few Global settings. This can be both a blessing and a curse. So far, for me, I like the assignable features so it's more a blessing.

One thing that's interesting...Playlist works much like Songbook on the PA4X. If I edit a song on a playlist, it refers back to the original registration. That means that a song I edit on one playlist will update on other playlists that have that song. At least that's what it looks like now.......
I read complaints/concerns about Genos on other forums. I wonder how many of those concerns are just tied to not understanding how Genos works? ........

This is post is composed using partly your text. Hope you do not mind.
Genos is different than any keyboard I've had in the past.  YES INDEED
Genos has few dedicated buttons or sliders...that feature  can also be a bit strange.

For instance, there are no "global"  settings, not for the bender, not for the "fade in fade out". I didn't think about that when I set up my registration . So, on each registration I have done, if I want functions in my way  I have to go back and set that up on each  registration bank. (button) 
YES AND A LOT OF WORK.

In other words, there's very few Global settings. This can be both a blessing and a curse. So far, for me,  it has not been a blessing.

Regarding Genos vocal processing, Yamaha must have updated it because it sounds as good  or better than  any dedicated voice processor I have  e.g. both the rack mount Helicon Voice Works Plus and  Digitech Vocalist Live Pro and the Roland VP 7. I use Bob = Louis Armstrong on Genos and  simultaneously  4 part  harmony on the Digitech (two microphones)  so Louis can say something to the singers and they will respond in 4 part harmony.

Voices and styles are excellent. You can route the wind instruments through AUX 1 and blow them with an analogue  blow controller with both breath pressure controlled volume and filter, so they sound 99 % like the real thing.

It is quite clear that many  problems users have are due  to not understanding how Genos works. Genos is not Tyros 6,  Those coming from the Tyros line presume things work in the same way.  They do not.

It is obvious Yamaha put thought into this keyboard.  But Genos  - like Tyros 5 - still needs a lot of updates.  There are in IMHO  illogical paths in the software (which are not bugs and I am sure will be rectified by updates in case enough buyers feel they are illiogical)  But there seems to be problems that are not "a matter of opinion".

I am not software-savy enough to judge whether they are software or hardware related. On 2 specimens I have thoroughly tested with the importer here, the memory function of for instance  registry banks is not reliable.

Here is what we did  (in case anyone knows  a better way, PLEASE let us know)

1
We started by assigning the functions you need for that bank to the sliders and also set  the "fade in fade out function" and "the pitch-bender" settings (these settings must be done first) We saved  these "global" settings to each registry button.
2
We then memorize intros, endings,  styles, voices, tempo and volume of each item on the 10 buttons. 
To make sure everything sounds the way we want it to sound  on stage we played the registry. Everyting was fine.
3
We saved the registry bank under  the name  "Delilah  95  F"  (95 meaning tempo and F the key)
4
Then we played another set up and after that to make quite  sure Delilah was put into memory correctly , we called up that registry.  There it was, perfect. 
5
After a week  -  I used the Genos many times since we memorized Delilah –  I  call up the Delilah registry bank at a gig.

I was panic-stricken:  it  started with a chacha rythm, the volume was  ear deafening and the tempo  160 !   I was sure I had chosen the wrong registry file, not Delilah.  I had not. The registry was corrupted!
After this incident we have checked the registry banks which can easily be done on the page that is dedicated to that. And indeed a lot of the registry files are corrupted,  no intro, wrong style, wrong tempo, wrong volume, wrong slider assignment.  The same problems were present on the second Genos.

Anyone experienced this problem, anyone aware of a remedy ? P L E A S E   H E L P

Cheers
Kaarlo

[Antonio]

Hallo Kaarlo

I offer you my modus Operandi, in the hope that you can benefit from your Genos.
At the moment the operating system is updated at 1.20 and I'm not happy, I'll wait for version 1.92 ....... (auugh) to begin to reason, hopefully good!

First you have to prepare a start registration with all the parameters you need for example:

1) Keyboard Split Point
2) Pitch bend
3) Transpose
4) OUT assignments (Speakers)
5) Foot switch
6) Mixer Setting
7) Possible Compressor Setting
Keyboard initial / After touch

Assignable Buttons

A) Mixer
B) Channel On / OFF
C) Registration Memory
D) Rotary On / off
E) Style Information
F) Fade in / out

Of course you can enter other parameters at will. SAVE THE EVERYTHING IN A START REGISTRATION. [/ s] [/ b]

When you turn on GENOS, THE FIRST THING YOU WILL MAKE LOAD THIS REGISTRATION, and from this moment any registration you make, and which you save will carry all the Parameters listed above.

So if you save different registrations in this way, by calling the registration or the linked playlist you will always have a registration with all the parameters.
I avoid making a more registration. A song, Una registration,

Regards

[Antonio]

Important

if you load a song registration, automatically you will have loaded a start registration !!!!!!!

Ciao

[reya]

5
After a week  -  I used the Genos many times since we memorized Delilah –  I  call up the Delilah registry bank at a gig.

I was panic-stricken:  it  started with a chacha rythm, the volume was  ear deafening and the tempo  160 !   I was sure I had chosen the wrong registry file, not Delilah.  I had not. The registry was corrupted!
After this incident we have checked the registry banks which can easily be done on the page that is dedicated to that. And indeed a lot of the registry files are corrupted,  no intro, wrong style, wrong tempo, wrong volume, wrong slider assignment.  The same problems were present on the second Genos.

Anyone experienced this problem, anyone aware of a remedy ? P L E A S E   H E L P

Cheers
Kaarlo

Hi Kaarlo

That must be terrifying !!! Experiencing such behaviour at a gig !!!

I have not experienced this behaviour and I am afraid I have not got a remedy either.

I do find it strange though that no-one else seems to have this problem, and that both your Genos and the one you tested with the importer seemed to have the same problem!
Maybe it's related in a way to the way you use the keyboard. Maybe you are doing some things a little different then most others, and maybe that behaviour triggers a bug in Genos somehere or maybe it is faulty hardware ?? Or even maybe someone else has access to the keyboard and changes things behind your back ??

In order to try and help you narrow down the possible causes , I was wondering about a couple of things ...

1) Are  you  saving the registration files to the internal memory of Genos or to a USB stick ?
If it is to USB stick, have you tried using a different one ?

2) When you noticed the faults in the registratiions, did you check the modification dates of the faulty registration files. Were they still at the date you created and tested them on ?? Or had they changed ....
If you cannot see the dates on Genos, go to "MENU"/"UTILITY" / "Display/Touch screen", and set the "time stamp" parameter to "show"

3) Also you say the faulty registration started with a chacha rhytm. Was that rhytm used in the song you played before you got to the faulty registration ?

4) Have you stored other things on the same media the faulty registrations were on (beeing it Genos internal storage or USB storage) ?
(MIDI recording, audio recordings, mp3 ...., voices ...... )
If so, have you had any problems (errors) with those ??

Thanks ...


Regards

Rudy

[EileenL]

The easiest way is to re-save these registrations as you want them Making sure you only have the boxes ticked in memory of what you want to happen when you play it. Make sure you have style and tempo ticked and your style should remain as you saved it. When you have done this don't forget to save it again.
  I believe what the problem is is user error as no one else I know of has experienced it.

[metcam]

I have Genos since December 15Th.

The best keyboard ever I had it.

I am using only 20% from internal stuff and again I am very happy with Genos.

All what I wanted so far they put in Genos.

Bin on gigs a few time and everything is perfect.

So friends,, be happy and play and enjoy GENOS.

Best regards.

[Gloria]

Metcam - thanks for your reply!  I am going to order my Genos today!   

[Fred Smith]

Kaarlo,

You should post your problem registration here so we can take a look at it for you.

Fred

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

quote author=reya link=topic=43524.msg344627#msg344627 date=1521063756]

AWFULLY sorry, did not see your great effort to help me, please accept my sincere apologies.

I have tried to give answers inside your text with CAPITAL  lettering to make orientation easy, I know capital letters are considered impolite

****************************************************************************************************************
Hi Kaarlo

I do find it strange though that no-one else seems to have this problem, and that both your Genos and the one you tested with the importer seemed to have the same problem! YES HOW RIGHT YOU ARE !
Maybe it's related in a way to the way you use the keyboard.  YES, YOU ARE CORRECT, I USE A WIRELESS IN EAR MONITORING SYSTEM AND MIC. AS A FACT I HAD LESS PROBLEMS AFTER REMOVING THEIR POWER SUPPLIES FROM THE MAINS. Maybe you are doing some things a little different then most others, and maybe that behaviour triggers a bug in Genos somehere or maybe it is faulty hardware ?? Or even maybe someone else has access to the keyboard and changes things behind your back ??  VERY GOOD POINT, BUT NOBODY EVEN GOES INTO MY STUDIO BECAUSE IT IS SUCH A MESS   BUT OFF COURSE AT 83 ONE MAY HAVE INGRAINED WAYS TO DO THINGS. IT TOOK ME ALONG TIME TO UNDERSTAND WHY I HAD PROBLEMS WITH TYROS REGISTRATION FILES SUDDENLY NO MORE WORKING. DUE TO SPACE LIMITS I HAD SHIFTED  STYLES FROM THE USER DRIVE TO PARTITION 1 ON THE HARD DRIVE, SO THEIR WHEREABOUTS BECAME UNKNOWN. IT SEEMS IN CASE YOU DID NOT HAVE PARTITIONS ON THE HD,  TYROS WOULD FIND THEM. 

In order to try and help you narrow down the possible causes , I was wondering about a couple of things ...  I NEED NOT STRESS HOW MUCH I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORT TO HELP ME !

1)
Are  you  saving the registration files to the internal memory of Genos or to a USB stick ?
If it is to USB stick, have you tried using a different one ?     HAVE TRIED BOTH, MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. I HAVE NO USB IN THE BOTTOM SPACE AND I USE A USB STICK ONLY FOR TRANSFERRING ITEMS FROM TYROS OR MY PC.  DURING NORMAL PROGRAMMING THERE IS NO USB ANYWHERE.

2)
When you noticed the faults in the registrations, did you check the modification dates of the faulty registration files. Were they still at the date you created and tested them on ?? Or had they changed ....
If you cannot see the dates on Genos, go to "MENU"/"UTILITY" / "Display/Touch screen", and set the "time stamp" parameter to "show"
WHEN GIVEN SUCH EXTRAORDINARILY EXACT INSTRUCTIONS I AM ABLE TO DO WHAT I AM TOLD. UNFORTUNATELY OFTEN I CANNOT. YES THE THE STAMP IS ON.
I HAVE LOOKED AT THE WINDOW YOU CAN CALL UP FROM THE REGISTRY  THAT SHOWS WHAT STYLE AND TEMPO IS UNDER EACH BUTTON, AND YES THE PHOTO TAKEN OF THE DISPLAY BEFORE AND AFTER DO SHOW WHAT IS IN THE MEMORY HAS CHANGED. THERE IS A TINY TIME STAMP NEXR TO THE NAME OF THE REG BANK, BUT UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE NOT LOOKED AT THAT WHEN SAVING, THANKS FOR THE ADVICE, I WILL START JOTTING THAT DOWN.

3)
Also you say the faulty registration started with a chacha rhytm. Was that rhytm used in the song you played before you got to the faulty registration ?
NO, I DO SONGS FROM A MIDIFILE WITHOUT THE MELODY AS I PREFER TO PLAY THAT MYSELF.  NO STYLES ARE IN THE SONGS/MIDI FILES.

4)
Have you stored other things on the same media the faulty registrations were on (being it Genos internal storage or USB storage) ? (MIDI recording, audio recordings, mp3 ...., voices ...... )
If so, have you had any problems (errors) with those ??

THE FAULTY REGISTRATIONS ARE ALL ON THE USER DRIVE. what a relief compared to tyros 5, there is abundant space.
MIDI FILES YES (MOSTLY FROM YAMAHA SOFT TRANSFERRED FROM TYROS 5)   

AUDIORECORDINGS   NO, 

MP3    NO,   

ONLY INTERNAL VOICES TWEEKED and saved on THE USER DRIVE
(for instance  1 trumpet  an octave lower, 1 trumpet an octave higher in order to sound OK on whatever split you put it on)

[Lee Batchelor]

After this incident we have checked the registry banks which can easily be done on the page that is dedicated to that.

Kaarlo, where exactly is this page? Thanks...

[EileenL]

Hi Lee,
  When in registration mode press the icon at the top of the page that says Menu. There you will find it.

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks, Eileen! I know where that page is. I've only ever used the Edit button and ignored the rest. You learn something new about this beast everyday .

[jwyvern]

It's not always essential to get into registration mode first. You can get directly to the info screen for the current reg. from other modes through Direct Access/and press one of the reg. buttons. (For the reg edit screen press DA and press Regist plus or minus).

John

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hi Lee,
  When in registration mode press the icon at the top of the page that says Menu. There you will find it.

Thanks Eileen, I should have mentioned that.  I will try to make photos of the display showing  my set up system. but my daughter took my camera for Easter.

By pressing a registry buttons every time the intro ( 2 or 3) is called up after which of course the style starts playing. 
The styles are all from the user drive, not the preset drive because I  do modify them in the style creator.  Typical modification:  volume balancing of parts, removal of parts I feel overload the style, instrument changes (I do not like vibes in styles though I like them for melody)  I choose a style and modify the tempo in order to be able to categorize styles. Some styles are Ok and therefore included in several tempo categories, others are good just close to the range they were created for

                                    70  90  110  120  130  140  160  180 

so when I build a bank I will not have to go through 200 styles to pick out one that is good for  the  120 -tempo - bank  that I am doing. They are also saved in separate files  like Combo and Big Band. After the bank is done you can look at the content on the  beforementioned page to control  that style-intro  and correct style is memorized  and that the tempo is correct. Unfortunately  the volume is not displayed. 

When doing this work you of course will also want your  slider- button - knob and pitchbeder-  functions to be memorized under each button as there is no global memory place for these. So I actually start out with the empty bank from this site, adjust the assignable to my standard system, memorize them under button 1 and then copy them to the other 9 buttons.  You must of course check the memory button items  contain just assignables.

Now what is the problem I encounter ?  These settings, controlled  to have been correctly memorized by  calling up  another bank first and then choosing the just made bank,  will after a day or two no more load correctly.

These are examples:
Right hand volume that was set to 80 may on reload have changed to  127,  style volume  that was set to 70 may be anything from 40 to 127.   Tempo that was  set to 120  (mentioned in the name of the bank to help you chose the bank that suits the tune you are going to play)  may suddenly have changed to 220.   The sliders malfunction.  They were of course set to be independent. Something has happened so that when you adjust the bass volume it also affects the Mic volume or the PAD volume, whatever.  The button that was set to fade in fade out now governs the Leslie speed and ABCDEF button assignment may have changed.  I first thought the problem was specific to the Genos I had for testing whether  to shift from Tyros 5/6 to Genos, but the second I now have here has the same problems. As a fact they were even worse when my wireless in ear monitor system and wireless mic were on, so now their power supplies are disconnected. So either I do something that Genos will not let you door both have a defect which to me seems most unlikely except in case all units have this problem,

Happy Easter

Kaarlo

[EileenL]

You must put a tick in assignable box on memory if you have assigned different functions. When setting the volumes of your style do this in the mixer and then save to registration making sure you have style and Tempo ticked in memory. Your volumes should then stay the same when you select your Registration. You can always then use the Sliders for small adjustments when playing.

[Stijn]

Thanks Eileen, I should have mentioned that.  I will try to make photos of the display showing  my set up system. but my daughter took my camera for Easter.

Hi Kaarlo,
No need for a camera to make pictures of your display. Follow the instructions below to make screen captures.

1. Switch off the Genos
2. Insert  a USB stick
3. In the Style control section, hold down the "BREAK" + "ENDING 2" + "ENDING 3" buttons while turning on Genos
4. To take a screen copy, press "ONE TOUCH SETTING 4"
5. The images are stored on the USB stick (in the root folder and called CAPT000X)

Regards,
Stijn