Genos 2 (61)

[Pino]

I'm looking forward to the day when Genos 2 (61) is available
I shall be the first in the queue

Lighter, smaller and the bugs sorted out

Until then, Im sticking with what I've got,

Happy paying 🎹

[valimaties]

I'm looking forward to the day when Genos 2 (61) is available
I shall be the first in the queue

Lighter, smaller and the bugs sorted out

Until then, Im sticking with what I've got,

Happy paying

I partially disagree... I don't want to see a "Genos-toy" in 61 keys. The PSR-S series, in my opinion, even if they are powerful keyboards, it seems like toys-keyboards. It is my opinion. I dreamed the day when new Tyros 6 will have 76 keys and smaller (Tyros 5 -76 it has a lot of unused plastic), and now it comes with Genos: the left and right sides are smaller as they have to be, but they can do something on Genos 2: the back side of it to be more linear. The selected red from picture, I don't understand why they put that plastic there, because you cannot use L-jacks, and makes the keyboard wider


But it is much too early to think to Genos 2. I love to see a lot of improvements to Genos instead of making Genos 2 Especially it can be done!

Regards,
Vali

[Fred Smith]

I'm looking forward to the day when Genos 2 (61) is available
I shall be the first in the queue

Lighter, smaller and the bugs sorted out

Until then, Im sticking with what I've got,

Happy paying 🎹

Won't happen. Yamaha have settled on 76 keys for their top of the line keyboards, 61 for the PSR, and 88 for their Clavinovas.

Fred

[jwyvern]

I'm looking forward to the day when Genos 2 (61) is available
I shall be the first in the queue

Lighter, smaller and the bugs sorted out

Until then, Im sticking with what I've got,

Happy paying 🎹

If it ever happens what makes you think there won't be a whole nest of new bugs to sort out. 
John

[Gunnar Jonny]

Bugs or not, as long as it is fixable with software updates and fixes coming out in not too long time after 'bug' reported, I guess most of us will end up as happy players.
It's the end users who always ends up to be the real 'betatesters', and I doubt there will be a 'bugfree' first release, ever.
Also, many users don't  recognize any much bugs at all, simply because the waste majority don't dive as deep into the 'expert' mode as some does.
Myself, I've past the days of 'into th deep dive' mode. Only do some easy edits and play to have fun, and does usually not find any bugs, if not real serious ones, before others tell us about them.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

...... The selected red from picture, I don't understand why they put that plastic there, because you cannot use L-jacks, and makes the keyboard wider


But it is much too early to think to Genos 2. I love to see a lot of improvements to Genos instead of making Genos 2 Especially it can be done!

Regards,
Vali

You are 100 % right in  MHO.   The area in the red looks strange with its silver screws and and  the plugs you must use are not as sturdy as the  L-plugs I used  the Tyros series. If you have a mic stand as I have attached to the keyboard stand and someone jerks your Genos it might even damage the protruding straight plugs and anyway the cable has to go downwards so the L plugs were more functional.  But consumers want changes, look at  at cars.  I very much prefer  the 2000 Range rover to the gimmicked look of the 2017 model.

[Enildo]

I partially disagree... I don't want to see a "Genos-toy" in 61 keys. The PSR-S series, in my opinion, even if they are powerful keyboards, it seems like toys-keyboards. It is my opinion. I dreamed the day when new Tyros 6 will have 76 keys and smaller (Tyros 5 -76 it has a lot of unused plastic), and now it comes with Genos: the left and right sides are smaller as they have to be, but they can do something on Genos 2: the back side of it to be more linear. The selected red from picture, I don't understand why they put that plastic there, because you cannot use L-jacks, and makes the keyboard wider


But it is much too early to think to Genos 2. I love to see a lot of improvements to Genos instead of making Genos 2 Especially it can be done!

Regards,
Vali

Hello valimaties!

As well? Does having 61 keys make the keyboard a toy? I would not give a toy, as my PSR s970 to my son. I ask you which song you can play on a keyboard 76 and that you can not play on a keyboard 61? Tell me? It's not because you like to use a 76, it has its advantages, this does not disagree, it give you the right to treat musicians using 61 keyboards with children who are playing with a toy. The Genos 76 in the hands of many people can become a toy, while a PSR E453 can be a great keyboard in the right hands. For you to know, my toy (PSR s970) generates income for my family and I already made a lot of money with it. And yes, yamaha is a company that lives off its customers, from the moment they decide to put a Genos 61, they will do because they want to make a profit!
The yamaha will not fail to manufacture a Genos 61, just because you do not want to see a "Genos toy".
Whether or not you want it does not matter to them but the market.
This is my point of view!


Thank you,
Enildo

[keynote]

Hello valimaties!

Does having 61 keys make the keyboard a toy?
Whether or not you want it does not matter to them but the market.
This is my point of view!


Thank you,
Enildo

The Tyros 5 was the second high-end arranger from Yamaha to have 76 keys. The first was the 9000 PRO. The 9000 PRO overall sales were not stellar and the keyboard itself had an under-powered CPU. Yamaha chalked it up as an 'experiment' and ceased production. Then lo and behold Yamaha decided to make a 76 key Tyros 5 and as it turned out it sold way more units than its 61 key counterpart. Yamaha likely decided 76 keys was the way to go and so now we have the Genos in 76 keys only. 76 keys gives you an extra octave and then some which is more attractive for mainly piano players. The acoustic grand piano is basically the most important instrument on a keyboard and therefore Yamaha did many people a big favor by making the Genos 76 keys.

I would also like to see Yamaha make a 61 key Genos 2. 61 keys is primarily beneficial to organ players. Other people might like it because it would be lighter and thereby more portable. Giving people a choice is consumer friendly as it satisfies a larger segment of the population. But what I would really like to see Yamaha do is make an "88" key Genos 2 giving people an even greater option to chose from.  That probably won't happen though since most arranger players are older and the added weight could be burdensome for some people especially if they gig.

76 keys is a compromise and the Genos is also very lightweight and plus it is selling like hotcakes which is a testament to Yamaha's marketing genius. A 61 key version of Genos 2 would probably sell fairly well also but the current Genos is so lightweight when compared to the Tyros 5 that Yamaha may stick with its current winning formula since the Genos basically appeals to both 61 key enthusiasts and to the much broader piano player enthusiasts who prefer more than 61 keys.

Mike

[valimaties]

Sorry... this is the only way I can post... some problems occur in forums boards...




Be calm

Regards,
Vali

[Pino]

Hello valimaties

Yes, piano players are probably very happy with 76
But This is an arranger keyboard with many voices
flutes, saxes, clarinets etc are out of their range after an octave and half
Even strings sound bad after 2 octaves

As a gigging musician for many many years I never had any keyboard over 61
And really would not want it, size and weight is important when you're out there.
A 61 would probably knock off another 1 kilo on Genos

Call it a toy if you want, but it's served me well,
I cannot remember one song I could not play because I had a 61

Maybe you are one of them guys that play piano all night,
Wouldn't a 76 key controller under a Genos 61 do the trick,
then everyone would be happy

Happy playing with whatever you want to call it, 

[travlin-easy]

As a pro entertainer/musician for more years than some of you have been alive, I can assure you that I, and many of my counterparts, never needed more than 61 keys to perform any song. Calling any keyboard of this stature a toy is an insult to not only the manufacturers who invested an enormous amount of time and money into it's development and production, but also to the many, many pro musicians that perform daily using a 61-key arranger keyboard. If you MUST have more keys in order to perform a song, maybe you should have purchased a piano, or a CVP. And, if your wish is to extensively reprogram every sound in the keyboard to fit your wish list, then maybe a 76-key synth midi'd to a PC or Apple is what you really need. I, personally, know hundreds of Pro players throughout the world, and none of them ever wanted to become software engineers in order to earn a living with their arranger keyboards. Essentially, we just want to plug them in, power up and kick off with the first song of the set - nothing more, nothing less.

Now, I, for one, made a damned good living performing with a 61 key arranger keyboard. I worked more than 450 jobs a year for many years, supported my family, built a home out in the sticks on 5-1/2 acres of wooded ground with a trout stream running through it, purchased a sailing yacht, and still managed to stash enough money away for my eventual retirement. And, it it were not for my failing health and a terminal illness, I would still, at age 77, be on stage performing 7 days a week with a 61 key arranger keyboard.

For full-time entertainer/musicians, the advent of a 61-key arranger keyboard made life a lot easier. I once owned a PSR-9000 Pro - it was brutally heavy, bulky, difficult to transport and didn't provide any more features than any 61-key keyboard of the same era - It just had more keys, some of which that rarely were played. For home players, the number of keys may be an important factor, but for those of us out there performing every day, those extra keys don't make a bit of difference in the grand scheme of things.

The 61-key arrangers were much lighter, had the same features, sounded just as good, they were much easier to carry and transport, took up less space in the car and cost a good deal less money. What's not to like. At one time, I had an 88 key controller attached via midi to my 61 key arranger, and quickly came to realize that I mainly played in the middle 61 key area of the 88 key controller. 88 key controllers were designed to satisfy piano players - not arranger keyboard players. The controller was taken back to the music store the following day.

I anticipate that Yamaha will come out with a new PSR model that will have all the features and sound of the Genos within the next few years. You can bet your bottom dollar it will sell like hotcakes! Unfortunately, I will not likely be around to see or hear it, but for you youngsters out there, I think you will really have lots of fun with it.

All the best,

Gary

[valimaties]

Hello valimaties

Yes, piano players are probably very happy with 76
But This is an arranger keyboard with many voices
flutes, saxes, clarinets etc are out of their range after an octave and half
Even strings sound bad after 2 octaves

As a gigging musician for many many years I never had any keyboard over 61
And really would not want it, size and weight is important when you're out there.
A 61 would probably knock off another 1 kilo on Genos

Call it a toy if you want, but it's served me well,
I cannot remember one song I could not play because I had a 61

Maybe you are one of them guys that play piano all night,
Wouldn't a 76 key controller under a Genos 61 do the trick,
then everyone would be happy

Happy playing with whatever you want to call it, 

Hi, Pino!

I was definitely misunderstood! That's a fact!

I have a lot of time 61 keys keyboards, and I did pretty well!
The PSR it take part of a class of keyboards that I see more as a home production music, not to gigs... Is my opinion, at least for my country! Here we have a lot of custom voices, ethnic voices, sampled in a very good quality, and that makes the differences between keyboards, even brands! You never can compare a 237 MB of one voice sampled (I have in Genos) with a 16-20MB of the same voice in PSR... Because it is about memory!

No, I'm not a piano player (BTW, they want 88 keys, and hammer, if it is possible ), basically in my country we play more romanian folk music I know other genres too, there are more than 25 years (not days, not months) of playing keyboard (and for a couple of years, bass guitar, and acoustic guitar)!

Why I want a 76 and not a 61? The simple way is that I can split the right part in multiple parts... For each instrument I can set the octave that I want to sound as natural as it should (and in this case will be in their range of activity ), I could set what DSP I want to each other. I can bypass in a way the SSS problem I have some songs that needs a quickly change of instruments in the instrumental part, which means I has to find a way to use them in the same time, without change registration or OTS. The spilt point is what is about, it helps me a lot.

This is about how complex is the music you sing, in general.

Best regards,
Vali

[valimaties]

EEEeeeeeeee..... come on guys, in my country saying it is a toy, is not such an "insult" as you pretend it is...
I don't know what you understand by "toy", but I can say that is only by the dimensions, from 76 to 61 keys....

OMG, I didn't know such a word can create such a disaster! 

Please look at my initial post... I did not say anything about players or to insult players!



Sorry for that misunderstood!!

[Joe H]

EEEeeeeeeee..... come on guys, in my country saying it is a toy, is not such an "insult" as you pretend it is...
I don't know what you understand by "toy", but I can say that is only by the dimensions, from 76 to 61 keys....

OMG, I didn't know such a word can create such a disaster! 

Please look at my initial post... I did not say anything about players or to insult players!



Sorry for that misunderstood!!

Meaning of "Toy" does not mean "small"...  Yes this is one of the problems with people around the world trying to communicate if English is a second language or people are using translator software.

My S970 is NOT a toy.



Joe H

[valimaties]

I know there are a lot of english expression that are far away from other languages expressions...
Personally I don't use translators, because I know that translators does not make a good job in some curcumstances...

In my country when we say toy we think at a small piece of something...
If you look in my post I said "even if it is a powerfull keyboard"... so definitely I did not think as anything else... simply misunderstood...
Definitely I did not think when I wrote "toy" as a childs toys or something like that... but we use a lot this word -toy (but in my language) in a lot of phrases...



Regards,
Vali

[Toril S]

Neither is mine. But I toy with it every day, and sometimes good sound is the result

[beykock]

Tyros 1, 2, 3 and 4 : 61 keys only.
Tyros 5 : 61 and 76k.
All professional keyboards.

Yamaha decided to launch a 76k arranger keyboard to be competitive and to please their customers, IMHO.

Babette

[panos]

I like the word "Toy".Makes children of all ages happy
Better than the word "Machine".Noooo it reminds me a job or something
But then again keyboards are both for having fun or support a living.
So, words are just words,no big deal.
That feature with the split point in right hand and the use of extra voices is a very good thing indeed.

[travlin-easy]

From everything I have read on this, the primary reason Yamaha decided to launch the Genos with 76 keys was because of the consumer reaction to the Tyros-5 76. The demand for the Tyros-5 76 was overwhelming in comparison to the Tyros-5 61. Obviously, Yamaha decided this would be a good move, financially, and they guessed correctly. The demand for the Genos is far beyond Yamaha's production capabilities and nearly everyone has it back ordered at this time.

As for bigger toys, I have one, at least my wife considers it a toy, so it must be. It's my sailing yacht, a Morgan 33 Out Island that is big enough to live aboard, which I did for six months in the Florida Keys during the winter 5 years ago. She says it's a big boy's toy! Take a look at http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/62940

Gary :cool:

[valimaties]

With all respect ...
next time maybe you might ask what I (or some non-english person) want to tell with a "word" before create this disturbance      If, for every word we have to give 2 pages of explanation that was not intended to create polemics, it is sad... Don't subtract the word from the context, especially, when in the entire post was obviously not intended to a "bad" thing ... If you analyze the text, in that context MEANS "small"...  I have heard NAMM demonstrators saying of a lot of products TOYS, but no one has not "explode" as some users did here...

PS: I have updated my signature, and I have wrote my country in it... Maybe before "pull my ears", correct me, or ask me what I intended to say using some words or expression... we are not every day english language speakers!

Good night ! 

Regards,
Vali

[travlin-easy]

For those of use who speak British as a first language, we would find it quite difficult to translate our thoughts to a Slavic language. I have tried to learn Polish, for example, but found it extremely difficult, even when being taught by a Polish friend who frequently sails with me. Therefore, for those on the forum who do not speak British as a primary language, the best tool I can recommend to find the meaning of a word is Wikipedia. Just Google the word, and look at what Wickipedia provides for Toy.

A toy is an item that is used in play, especially one designed for such use. Playing with toys can be an enjoyable means of training young children for life in society. Different materials like wood, clay, paper, and plastic are used to make toys. Many items are designed to serve as toys, but goods produced for other purposes can also be used. For instance, a small child may fold an ordinary piece of paper into an airplane shape and "fly it". Newer forms of toys include interactive digital entertainment. Some toys are produced primarily as collectors' items and are intended for display only.

The origin of toys is prehistoric; dolls representing infants, animals, and soldiers, as well as representations of tools used by adults are readily found at archaeological sites. The origin of the word "toy" is unknown, but it is believed that it was first used in the 14th century. Toys are mainly made for children.[1] The oldest known doll toy is thought to be 4,000 years old.[2]

Playing with toys is considered to be important when it comes to growing up and learning about the world around us. Younger children use toys to discover their identity, help their bodies grow strong, learn cause and effect, explore relationships, and practice skills they will need as adults. Adults on occasion use toys to form and strengthen social bonds, teach, help in therapy, and to remember and reinforce lessons from their youth.

Hope this clears things up a bit,

Gary

[Gunnar Jonny]

Simple explaination:

Toy = Something we can play (and have fun with)
         Something we can play (and have fun with) = Genos
                                                                            Genos = Toy

Have fun and play, it's fun!   

 

[Enildo]

Ok friend Valimaties!
Its explained to me, but at no point did I get angry.
I just countered his claim that it would be a toy.
But now I understand everything I wanted to say.
About Romania I really like to research some things and I discovered that you use many words that also speak in Portuguese.

Strong hug!
Enildo

[Pianoman]

I too use my 61 key instrument to earn a living.
It has supported, and continues to support, me and my family
for many years now.

It is not what keyboard you have, or how many keys it has.
It is what you can do with it that counts.

For some users, all the extra real estate will remain unused.

But I understand Valimaties position.
It is just a misunderstanding of a single word.

Sometimes translating from one language to another can
create quite a few problems.

And sometimes even native English speakers have trouble
with words and spelling.

We shouldn't be overly sensitive.

Best Regards.
Pianoman.

[Will49]

The Tyros 5 was the second high-end arranger from Yamaha to have 76 keys. The first was the 9000 PRO.

Hi Mike, I think you'll find that the PSR-9000 Pro was not the first 76-note Yamaha arranger, as I had a 76-note PSR way back in 1991... it was called PSR-6700! I wonder how many of you guys here have actally owned one... or are even aware that such an arranger ever existed? 

Regards,
Will

[EileenL]

I owned a 6700 and what a lovely instrument that was. It weighed a ton and was not midi but what a joy to play. 

[travlin-easy]

I owned the forerunner to the 6700 - the PSR-5700, with 61 keys and some incredible sounds and features. However, it only had 35 styles and about half that many voices, and it weighed a ton. What a beast to lug around every day. It had a built-in 50 watt amplifier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4afW8kxec4s

Gary

[DonM]

I have had four arrangers with 76 keys, and probably 25 with 61.  I much prefer the 76 key arrangers, except for the portability issue.
Having those extra keys means you don't have to use the Octave buttons, and you can split the upper side to have your choice of two or more sounds instantly. 
Apart from the Roland BK9, the Genos is the lightest weight of any 76er I've had, and if I were in the market, it would be a heavy influence to get one.
I think all this controversy over what is a "toy" is really silly.  The man told you he meant no disrespect and we should let it drop at that.  I'd hate to have to communicate in another language.  I'd more than likely call someone's mother a bad name and be banned for eternity! 

[Joe H]

I don't use splits.  I use the OTS buttons to change Voices on the fly. This can also be done with registrations. Both ways work quite well. And tapping on the Octave Buttons is a piece of cake when I need to play in the higher registers.  Just goes to show that we don't all use our keyboards the same way.

Joe H

[Pino]

This topic had nothing to do with "a toy"

I guess that it boils down to 'home players' vs 'gigging musicians

If I was a home player then I would opt for the 76

As a gigger and having to move the gear often then size does matter

I think Eileen and other giggers would admit that Genos is a bit of a hulk,
I guess that's why Tyros 5 owners also bought a S970

A smaller dimension with the same features would be my preference.

I hope it will happen one day

Thanks for your input

Pino