The Real Reason

[vanray]

The real BetaTesters is always the end customers, just as it is at other Arranger Keyboard Producers.
Been that way as long as I can remember. 

Sometimes we are the DELTA Testers too 

Looking at the "TIMING" of the genos launch , heres what i think happened .

If i was a Yamaha Top-Boss, and i said to everybody in the factory,
" Get this product out BEFORE Christmas " no matter what.

some technicians, programmers ,beta-testers, might have complained,saying :
"Its not ready for a pre-Christmas launch".

As a Top Boss , i would have thought:
"It Must go out before Christmas, otherwise we lose a Huge profit"

Company's make much more money Before Christmas,
NOT After Christmas, when everyone's has spent all their money.

so i do understand, why the Product had to be launched, regardless of flaws.

[Enildo]

Hi Vanray!

I agree with everything in number and grade!

Enildo

[vanray]

Thanx Enildo

But lets me Honest , this is how big company's operate
Profit, keeps them in Business , and the biggest profits are made
on the run up to Christmass.

Be interesting to know how many Genos have been sold worldwide, so far .

[Lee Batchelor]

Vanray - yes and no.

The Genos profit returns are not dependent on any such holiday release. I did perimeter sales for Yamaha years ago and yes, we stocked dozens of "toy PSR beginner" keyboards in the months before Christmas. We were practically sold out by December 24. The Genos is in a class by itself. Even though dozens of fine folks here buy the Genos to play in their living rooms, it's a world class, pro level board. If the Yamaha big wigs said to get this thing out for the "Christmas rush," they're nuts.

They would have served us all better by delaying the release so all the bugs and software omissions were fixed FIRST! Early release of poor quality software is a Microsoft trait - oh, sorry, someone asked me not to drag Microsoft into this discussion - EVEN though doing so is a perfect fit for Yamaha's most recent brain child.

[vanray]

The Genos profit returns are not dependent on any such holiday release.

we stocked dozens of "toy PSR beginner" keyboards in the months before Christmas.
We were practically sold out by December 24.

That sounds like a Back to Back Contradiction ?

So your saying it would have been best to launch the Genos
at the end of FEBRUARY  2018 ?

[Lee Batchelor]

Perhaps...

The Genos will eventually be a winner, I'm sure. I just think Yamaha pushed it out the door too fast. The only reason I know of for a hasty push to market is, if the competition has a hot item ready to go. I know of no such item. Perhaps Yamaha has the inside scoop on some major release by Korg?? In that case, I'll eat my words. I'll also hold off buying a Genos until I've heard the new Korg .

[travlin-easy]

I only know three individuals that purchased he Genos, of which, one sold theirs, but the other two think it is the greatest keyboard that ever came out.

Gary

[FluxRyan123]

I absolutely love my Genos.  I've had it since October.  I also don't use the styles.  I play it with my band as if it's a synth.

[StuartR]

I absolutely love my Genos.  I've had it since October.  I also don't use the styles.  I play it with my band as if it's a synth.

Same here. I bought two of them. One is used with a band and the other at home with accompaniment.

[guitpic1]

I only know three individuals that purchased he Genos, of which, one sold theirs, but the other two think it is the greatest keyboard that ever came out.

Gary

Gary,

I know you are retired but have you ever considered buying Genos?

[maartenb]

I absolutely love my Genos.  I've had it since October.  I also don't use the styles.  I play it with my band as if it's a synth.

That's an interesting remark!

Why didn't you go for the cheaper Montage?
What has the Genos to offer over the Montage, when one doesn't use the styles and only the voices for live gigs?

I'm interested in your opinion. Thanks!


Maarten

[StuartR]

That's an interesting remark!

Why didn't you go for the cheaper Montage?
What has the Genos to offer over the Montage, when one doesn't use the styles and only the voices for live gigs?

I'm interested in your opinion. Thanks!


Maarten

I had just that at one point. A Montage for my band and a Tyros 5 at home. As soon as Genos came out I sold the Montage and replaced it with a Genos. After using that with the band for a month or so, I sold the Tyros and got a second Genos. It's easier now to move registrations and modified styles from home to the studio or vice versa.

I found the Montage easy to play but difficult to use otherwise. The relatively small screen had poor touch response (compared to Genos), and the voices, while quite respectable, can't compare to the SA2 voices in the Yamaha arrangers. The front panel of the Montage is littered with small buttons, which are in one of three states, lit, half lit or not lit. I just found it a bit overwhelming for someone who just wants to play. On the plus side, Yamaha has a great synth forum with plenty of technical support from Yamaha subject matter experts and players. That's the one thing I miss. Just one players opinion. Other opinions welcome.😁

[pjd]

Why didn't you go for the cheaper Montage?
What has the Genos to offer over the Montage, when one doesn't use the styles and only the voices for live gigs?

Hi Maarten --

I've got a similar usage model as Stuart and FluxRyan -- Genos as a synth.

The SA2 voices put Genos over the top -- great for all of the quasi-orchestral stuff that I play. Throw in pipe organs and a real/better drawback organ mode and it's a no-brainer for me. Sure, YEM is not a replacement the rich voice editing in Montage. Genos voice editing is similar to the Yamaha synth "Quick edit" of old. (Example: TG-500.) I don't need FM although Montage does have some nice FM-X performances. Scene morphing and motion sequencing don't do much for me either. (Some features of any keyboard always go unused. )

Plus, after working with PSR-S950 and MOX for sequencing from a DAW, I favor the XG architecture in Genos (PSR/Tyros). From reading forums, Montage has some definite quirks. Genos/PSR/Tyros MIDI file load and playback is quite reliable. Case in point, a MIDI file that hung (!) the MOX would play back fine on the S950. Complain to Yamaha and their synth folks say, "The MIDI file is broken." No, I say your corporate stovepipe culture is broken. Port the d----ed code from PSR/Tyros to your synthesizers!

Sorry about that last rant. 

All the best -- pj

[FluxRyan123]

Maarten,

I just appreciate the acoustic realism of Genos.  it has the right synth voices I am looking for, as well as the right sounds for every other instrument.  And I can edit the voices to my hearts content.  Simple as that.

Ryan

[StuartR]

Maarten,

I just appreciate the acoustic realism of Genos.  it has the right synth voices I am looking for, as well as the right sounds for every other instrument.  And I can edit the voices to my hearts content.  Simple as that.

Ryan

That's a point I forgot to make myself. While the Montage and even Kronos have (and can have) literally thousands of voices on board, the Genos has the right kind of choices I needed for everyday use built right in.

[Antonio]

Sometimes we are the DELTA Testers too 

Looking at the "TIMING" of the genos launch , heres what i think happened .

If i was a Yamaha Top-Boss, and i said to everybody in the factory,
" Get this product out BEFORE Christmas " no matter what.

some technicians, programmers ,beta-testers, might have complained,saying :
"Its not ready for a pre-Christmas launch".

As a Top Boss , i would have thought:
"It Must go out before Christmas, otherwise we lose a Huge profit"

Company's make much more money Before Christmas,
NOT After Christmas, when everyone's has spent all their money.

so i do understand, why the Product had to be launched, regardless of flaws.

Quite right! Genos is an excellent product but it came out soon. At least 6 months before, this is arrogant business ethics. Only profit at the expense of the final consumer

[valimaties]

Antonio... calm down ))))) and write with small and non-bold letters, it is disturbing ones ))

You are not the only one who is not so satisfied by his Genos... I'm not only a "sit and play" player, I work on every keyboard that I has, from my first Tyros 2 till now Genos, and PA2X and PA3X (and some other old models, but not so full-features like those top arrangers)...
Even so, I'm not screaming ))))

[metcam]

Even so, I'm not screaming ))))

   

[EileenL]

Here in the UK Genos has sold faster up to date then any other models have and as you spend time with it you realise what a great keyboard this is. Of course there will be updates needed as with all new products. 
This how ever dose not stop people enjoying it now as it is.
  Yamaha for as long as I can remember have always launcher around October there new flagships so why all this talk about released to soon. Why all this money grabbing talk. Nobody forced you to buy one.

[Antonio]

Here in the UK Genos has sold faster up to date then any other models have and as you spend time with it you realise what a great keyboard this is. Of course there will be updates needed as with all new products. 
This how ever dose not stop people enjoying it now as it is.
  Yamaha for as long as I can remember have always launcher around October there new flagships so why all this talk about released to soon. Why all this money grabbing talk. Nobody forced you to buy one.

Eileen, I have bought all the Yamaha models since 1980, and you will certainly understand that from a leading company, I also expect suitable behavior. I have never said that Genos is a bad product, only that it has not reached its maturity.

[Antonio]

Antonio... calm down ))))) and write with small and non-bold letters, it is disturbing ones ))

You are not the only one who is not so satisfied by his Genos... I'm not only a "sit and play" player, I work on every keyboard that I has, from my first Tyros 2 till now Genos, and PA2X and PA3X (and some other old models, but not so full-features like those top arrangers)...
Even so, I'm not screaming ))))

Valimaties, for your rule I am not shouting. In fact I did not use the CAPITAL characters. Simple bold to highlight a concept.

If it annoys you, move on!

[Antonio]

Eileen

I hope my thoughts arrive correctly translated. I use the google translater

[Gunnar Jonny]

........If it annoys you, move on!

That type of bold big letters is annoying and totally unnessesary, and to tell people move on like this is simply unpolite and disrespectful!

[Fred Smith]

If it annoys you, move on!

Antonio, you're the one who needs to move on.

Fred

[andyg]

Historically, there are two release points in a year. 1) After the Spring NAMM and Frankfurt trade fairs 2) after Summer NAMM and the European round of trade fairs. Frankfurt was often used for pre-release and prototypes and Summer NAMM/London for unveiling the final products. Trade fairs have come and gone over the years, but AFAIK it's still a schedule that makers more or less run to.

And previous comments are spot on, you launch your new 'bread and butter' products in the early Autumn, as that's what pays the bills! Flagships are usually released when ready, but usually at one of the two points I mentioned, so companies go for the nearest one. These days, the instruments are so complex that it's inevitable that they will indeed 'mature' with OS updates. Those updates, which are so vital to some, won't even be installed by a great many owners!

Released too early? I don't think so, and neither do any of the steadily increasing number of students who own one.

[EileenL]

I remember when the 9000 was first released and it was not complete and that was the first time I went to Yamaha UK to meet the designer team and explain what was not happening as it should. We waited six months for this to be updated and then were supplied with stickers that said Version two to put on the keyboard. This is by no means a first. You can bench test them until the cows come home but each individual will have different uses for a keyboard some of them a little way out for most of us but in the end Yamaha always come through.

[valimaties]

It's ok guys, 

I'm also not so pleased about those missing things in Genos, or things that don't work as it has to be, but I love Yamaha's sound, that's why I sold all Korg I had.. Yes, Korg is 500% much more full-feature keyboard than Yamaha, and cheaper, and they solve bugs frequently, and add features from an update to other... but there are few things on Yamaha that I really think could be improved, and with those which are already in top of (the sound of SA, SA2, etc) I can have the greatest keyboard in the world...  IMO Yamaha must wake up and let its keyboards and PC softs (YEM) more flexible to its owners... I hope one day we will have what Korg has, and YES, Yamaha will be the best arranger/workstation in the world.. Till then, it is a good keyboard, which you can do your job, and that's it

But sincerely, I don't know why we have to speak for so long about this "launched day too soon", or other disappointment we saw in this forum?!

Yes, let's post bugs, that everyone see and to see if exists workarounds, or "how to do that", or "how to do that other thing", etc!
Why there is not a place where we can share custom voices, styles sessions, or other content?!
You surely don't know, but there are a lot of Korg users in my country which share their content freely, even if they buy for example from others (not like premium content of Yamaha, which we know it is only for an account ) but I don't saw never Yamaha samples (as ppf, or whatever you all have) shared in some places over the internet... This is what I think we have to do for the future!

Regards,
Vali

[EileenL]

Probably we do not share content we buy because we respect that the person creating it makes his living from it and piracy is a nasty thing to happen to anyone.

[Oldden]

Hi,
There is still some free legal stuff around, it's just a question of finding it.
See link below.

http://www.a-mc.biz/makemusic/2017/12/13/tyros-xmas-174-free-christmas-styles/

Oldden.

[mikf]

There is a balance that has to be achieved between release date and product performance. It's easy to forget as a consumer that on the other side of that balance there are jobs at stake, and many thousands of real families who depend on the income generated. If you get that wrong too often there will be no future products. Yes, the Genos has bugs and shortcomings, but it also largely does what it is supposed to do and many users are delighted to have it - so I doubt it is released too early. Released too early would mean that instruments were being returned by the barrowload and sales were poor. That is not happening. The reality is that overall the Genos appears a huge success.
Mike