Genos better than T5? Points from zero to ten please...

[Will49]

As stated in some previous posts, I just couldn't justify the expense involved in trading up from my T4 to a Genos, so went for a used T5/76 in mint condition instead... and I truly am very happy with it too! However, in about 18 months to 2 years time, maybe I will consider a used Genos (but it's a big "maybe" though). So, in the meantime, I would like to ask current Genos owners how much better they think Genos is than the T5 - based on a score of 0 to 10 (0 = no better really. 10 = vastly better in all aspects and worth every penny of whatever it cost to change.

By now, some of you guys will have had your Genos for some time, and will have had time to properly reflect on the whole experience whilst the initial excitement of the latest and best(??) is starting to wear off a bit. Of course, it will require all current Genos owners (those who are prepared to respond) to be TOTALLY honest! And if you happen to feel that the improvement over T5 might only be, say, about 4 or 5 out of 10, don't worry as I won't even ask why (well, not on here anyway) as that's entirely up to you whether you feel like supplying reasons for your score or not.

Thanks in advance,
Will

[Edit] Please comment below ONLY if you have, at any time, owned a Tyros 5, and are prepared to state (in points from zero to ten) how much better (or not) the Genos is when compared to the Tyros 5.

[soryt]

If the price of an instrument is important , than is the passion to make music not big enough .
After 2 months i can say that the Genos is almost perfect , ( the Genos 2 will be better  )

Soryt 

A big 9

[EileenL]

Well for me it has to be a 10. I am loving every minute of it. The sound is so different to any thing I have had so far and makes you want to keep playing together with some of the new styles.

[Will49]

After 2 months i can say that the Genos is almost perfect

Hi Soryt, thanks for your response. But you don't say if you had a T5 before it. If you did, then you might have felt that the T5 was "almost perfect" at one time as well? What I really want to know now is how much better than T5 (on the scale of 0 to 10) do people think Genos is.

Regards,
Will

[alans]

Hi Will

You ask a very interesting question,as you know,I changed from the T5- 76 to the Genos,I think a more important question is.....does Genos meet expectations?,especially after all the lead-up and hype before release.

For me personally, I am very happy I bought the Genos,although whether I could justify the cost to exchange is debatable 😁😁
I like the look of Genos,design, colour and touch screen,I enjoy using the new (revamped) styles and enhanced voices.That ,to me,makes it a justifiable cost.
I fully realise that some were expecting much more of the Genos,and perhaps with time and firmware upgrades, some or most of these wants and desires will be realised.

Overall,I would say I'm happy with my purchase and am happy with the upgrade from the T5,I  would give it a score of 8 out of 10,any higher score would mean the keyboard needs to be approaching perfection,and that will not happen.

Whether a new instrument is good or bad is subjective,and everyone will have their own view.Genos is still relatively fresh to poeple and with the  passing of time players will form a much more informed judgement.

A good post Will, hope my reply is helpful.

Happy New Year

Alan

[Will49]

Overall,I would say I'm happy with my purchase and would give it a score of 8 out of 10,any higher score would mean the keyboard needs to be approaching perfection,and that will not happen.
A good post Will, hope my reply is helpful.
Happy New Year

Thank you Alan; that seems a very honest, no bull***t and well-balanced response! And not only have you given me the points out of ten (being 8 in your case) that you feel the Genos is better than the T5, you've also stated your reasons as well! That, indeed, is very helpful! Pleased to see you're enjoying your Genos... as I am with my T5/76!

Happy New Year to you also,
Will

[torben]

Hi Alan - I agree with you almost completely. Genos is really good. I would compare it to a Tyros 6. Absolutely an upgrade.

But is it worth the money, you ask? To be quite honest - I am in doubt. You could live "very well" with a Tyros 5. But if you need a new instrument and have to choose between a Tyros 5 and a Genos - AND money does not matter - I would go for the Genos. Otherwise Tyros 5 is a good choice. And to some extent much more simple to handle.

I would give it a cautious score of 4 ...

Torben

[Jeremy Bender]

Hi

I don't have any arranger history and the Genos is my first. As you can see from my gear list I do have plenty of pro type synths. Hence no baggage. I had been intrigued by the idea of an arranger for a while and the Genos workstation promotion made me look more closely at it. The demo videos on you tube were also very impressive.  Within 10 mins playing one at PMT Birmingham I was convinced

I bought one in early November. I have pretty much spent all my free time playing and learning more about it. I cannot remember ever having so much musical fun. I constantly get inspired to learn some new songs, expand my playing style and just have a blast. The hours just fly by especially over my Xmas break when I've had more time to play.

It's a brilliant instrument. The sounds are amazing. The AI and articulation staggers me every day. The styles, song player, score display all work so well. I've even been able to learn lots of quite rare ELP things using some midi files and the score display. Eg Abaddons Bolero...

For me it's a 9/10. Why not 10? Well the firmware upgrade means the DSP allocation and editing is a bit odd and clunky. If this is sorted soon so different effects can be simply allocated to voices and then individually edited for me that would be a big step up. The editing of voices is also very limited given my synths background. But-the range onboard is so good that you can pretty much get close to anything you need for most songs etc...

Happy new year.
Steve

[torben]

I don't have any arranger history and the Genos is my first

Hi Steve,

no offense - but how can you compare the Genos to a Tyros5 when you apparently have no "arranger history". Beats me... 

But happy New Year!!

Torben

[Jeremy Bender]

Torben

I didn't make any claim to be comparing it. I clearly explained I have no history with arrangers but gave my views on my fun with the Genos and a score out of 10 overall to help the original poster.

Cheers
Steve

[soundphase]

new PIANO sounds : +0.5
new strings, sa2 cello, sa2 oboe, other new sa2 sounds : +0.75
new ensemble voices : +0.25
arpegiattor: +0.25
drums : +1.25
new styles : +0.5
sliders and real-time possibilities : +0.75
new overall sound quality & effects : +1.25
new os, touch screen, memory management : +0.5

around 6/10 for me

[Bill]

Hi Will

First of my score ---  5

The reason is I have mixed feelings. Sometimes I think it is just great and other days I have the odd thought that I wish I had kept my T5.
It is hard to say why though.
I like many things on the Genos,
The operating system is very good, or at least those things that are stable.  I do not understand why though they removed many of the features of the Tyros.  One in particular is the view of styles etc.  On the Tyros we could choose to have a list view or a Block view. On the Genos this is not available in all modes. Another is why did they remove the Bar counter, it just seams stupid when they could have kept it.
I miss  the tilting screen of the Tyros.  Having a fixed one on the Genos makes it vulnerable to reflections from lights etc.
I only occasionally used the Music Finder on the Tyros, but why did they not retain it and introduce the Playlist.  The conversion of MFD to Playlist (and Reg) seems so to be badly thought out.
I like the idea of the Appegiator but the way that they have implemented it is just not right for me.

Having said that I will still be keeping the Genus.  I just hope they will sort out some of the things they either forgot about or programmed badly.

Bill

[Marcus]

The Tyros 5 is awesome, still easily ahead of the Korg Pa4X. However, to answer the question comparing the Tyros 5 to the latest Genos model, the Genos is a 10 in every category.



Marcus

edit: a "10" for Grandma's pies and cooking as well.

[Lloyd E]

After playing and using the Genos for two months I could not go back to a Tyros 5 without deep regret. The Genos is simply fun to play and for the home player it is simply
wonderful. I am not one to want to do a lot of fooling around with custom this or that but for those who do the Genos will also give enjoyment. 

Some updates are in order and Yamaha will give them to those who wait.  Like Eileen, I love to play and enjoy all the Genos has to offer. I do not regreat a penny of the cost
because I get that much enjoyment from it.   Lloyd
PS: I am running two KRK speakers that have a separate amp. for each of the three speakers and they have great sound. I also have the Genos speakers and since tweaking
them by way of the mixer they sound really excelllent for home play or for small groups.   

[Al Ram]

Will
I have owned a T4 and a T5 and now a couple of days with Genos.   It is still too early to quantify the differences and provide a rate.   But instead, i can give you some points that i find worth mentioning.

I copied/pasted this from another post but it will give a good idea.

Just a couple of days playing with Genos.   To tell you the truth at first i thought about sending it back.   !!!!

That is because i am so used to T5 and Genos is not entirely but somewhat different.  Things are now in different places.   Even after reading the user manual a couple of times, it was exasperating at first.  Still is, but the exasperation level dropped to 2% now that i am more familiar with it and the two of us are getting to know each other much better. 

I realized that i was expecting the new keyboard to adapt to me. That was not happening and it was so frustrating.  After changing my mindset for me to adapt to the new keyboard is like the light turned on.  Also, got a lot of help reading old posts on this forum and asking new questions.   The members response is great and extremely valuable.

Sound is excellent.    There are things that you can do easier/faster/better with Genos.  There are other things that were easier on T5.

Genos is a bit larger than T5-61.   A bit lighter too, not much but it is lighter. At least it is not heavier - that is an advantage.  Color is not that important to me but it looks nice. (like everything that is new !!).

- Transferred all T5 registrations, external styles, external multipads, etc,  to Genos.   All registrations playing well so far. I have only tested about a hundred but so far so good.  New keyboard is smart enough to play everything from old registrations, styles, etc.  If old style/voice is not present, Genos is smart enough to automatically replace by a similar new style.   But i can still copy the old style from T5 to Genos and reprogram my registration if desired.  In some cases the new style sounds better.  In other cases, i reprogrammed registrations with the old style.

- instruments/voices sound great and have more expression, my perception.

- Already Setup iPad with SongBook+ connected to Genos.  I am telling you, this combination is by far much better now.   In the past i was controlling SongBook PDF's with the T5 keyboard.   Now, I use Songbook to call the keyboard registration from the iPad and display the PDF on the iPad.  The linking is so easy now.  No more midis are needed for this. 

- Playlists, are a great feature in Genos.  However, i do not need it because now that i control the registrations with SongBook, i create playlist in SongBook and control the gig from there.   It is much easier.   In the past with T5 i created my playlists manually in excel and then renamed the songs with a numeral prefix from 01 to 99 and copied to USB stick inserted in T5.   No need for that anymore.   So, I have not even explored the Playlist feature in Genos and probably will not for a long while.

I like the new touch screen, it is clear and readable, although for people like me with old tired vision, characters could have been just a bit larger, since the screen is big enough.  (Yamaha engineers are probably youngish and did not have old folks in mind when designing the screen).
So much for the myth that Yamaha keyboards are for older people !!!

Need to explore and see if the size of fonts can be changed on main screen, probably no.

Also, the touch screen is not tilt-able, probably to diminish risk of damage to the screen.

I like the new location of registrations memory.  Right below the touch screen. In front of player and easier to access.

I do not use OTS, so for me nothing to compare to.

- To be quite honest, IMO T5 is still a great excellent keyboard and not too distant from Genos in quality, etc.    (really do not want to start a controversial topic).

IMO there are a few minor design flaws in Genos but so far I managed to find workarounds.

For example, the USB underneath the Genos keyboard was designed more like a car needing an oil change.  You have to get underneath the keyboard.  If the keyboard is on a flat surface, good luck.  It is not designed for easy access.  Perhaps that was the idea behind this and purposely placed there.  The cover has a screw and you need a phillips screwdriver . . . really ?

This one could have been placed in an easier to access location like the back of the keyboard with a self-secured cover and it would have been much better and still secure, or keep the screw but change the location.  Once i finish my setup i will install the USB stick there and place back the screw to try to never open it again.

On the other hand, i have not had any problems whatsoever with the naming of the USB sticks.   I have been reading other posts where people complained about this. I have used all 3 USB locations.

The Genos main display does not show Transponse values when playing.  However, i fixed that by bringing it into the main menu.   

The Genos main display does not show Bar count.  In some cases this is needed.  I managed to find a workaround and display bar count now. (already discussed and reported in another post on this forum).

Hope you are having a wonderfull time and enjoy the festivities.

Greetings from Tijuana/San Diego Area.

[Will49]

Torben
I didn't make any claim to be comparing it. I clearly explained I have no history with arrangers but gave my views on my fun with the Genos and a score out of 10 overall to help the original poster.

Hi Steve, With all due respect, Torben was right in his comment to you, as I'm afraid your statement doesn't help me at all really. All you did was tell me how amazing Genos is (but you are not the only one... Eileen did exactly the same thing)! But that's not what I'm after here, as I've already read loads of such comments in other threads. What I want is to hear from those who have actually owned a Tyros 5, and their honest truth (in points out of ten) regarding how much better (or not) they think Genos is than its predecessor. Never mind, glad to see that you are enjoying your Genos.

Kind regards,
Will

P.S. I have just edited my opening post to clearly point out that I only want to hear from those who have actually owned a Tyros 5 prior to acquiring a Genos.

[manuel]

I had the T5 since it came out, and now I have the Genos also, since came out.....
Genos is Awesome.....!!!! it has so much Headroom on the sound, almost tri-dimentional...The new styles, the revamped styles, and if you want, you could transfer the styles that did not make it into the Preset styles, so, you have the best of the very best.

For me, Genos is a 9.9999999
(I reserve a tiny porcentaje just in case for a future improvement if it is possible).

Manuel

[Will49]

new PIANO sounds : +0.5
new strings, sa2 cello, sa2 oboe, other new sa2 sounds : +0.75
new ensemble voices : +0.25
arpegiattor: +0.25
drums : +1.25
new styles : +0.5
sliders and real-time possibilities : +0.75
new overall sound quality & effects : +1.25
new os, touch screen, memory management : +0.5
around 6/10 for me

Hi soundphase, Many thanks for taking the time & effort to list all those categories, and to give them their score on an individual basis to make a total score of 6/10 improvement margin over a T5. I hadn't even thought of it that way!

Kind regards,
Will

[vanray]

For me personally
I do miss the  "CD/Studio-Finished"  sound ,that the Tyros 5 provides so easily.

The genos has a more "Chunky" sound , which im trying to Avoid.
as i prefer my Songs , and tunes, to have that " MASTERED " finish
i dont want to sound like a "Bedroom-Demo".

I decided from the beginning never to sell my tyros 5/76
as it was my 1st love, and got me back into music after 25 years,abstinence.

Both boards are a 10 for me
Yamaha are HUGE ! , and know what their doing

some company's haven't got a clue .

[Will49]

A huge thanks to all who have taken the time & effort to respond so far to my little research... some with a detailed analysis/reasons as well as their total score between zero and ten! I find it all a very interesting read; thanks again everyone!

Best wishes,
Will

[Eric, B]

A huge thanks to all who have taken the time & effort to respond so far to my little research... some with a detailed analysis/reasons as well as their total score between zero and ten! I find it all a very interesting read; thanks again everyone!

Best wishes,
Will

Hi Will,
It would help a little if we knew what you want to do with the KB and how you use it.
As a gigging musician I need great drums and good base. It is the back bone of a dance song and groove.
The new Genos  Revo drums and Bases are just amazing.
If you are a home musician it might be different.
Second: what type of music do you play mostly? Big band? Classic? Standards? Oldies?
I would say the T5 is more than sufficient for that.
I play more modern music. Even though I did not own a T5, I auditioned it many times, but it didn't quite have enough for me.
The Genos on the other hand is a dream machine for modern and 80's music.
I do own a S-970 though which has many features of the T5.
Plus as Manual said: the overall sound is almost like HD sound. Very defined, clear and full.
My T4 almost sounds tiny compared. And I know there wasn't a huge difference to the T5.
I know that wasn't exactly the answer you are looking for, but maybe some food for thought ...
Good luck with your search.
All the best.
Eric

[stephenm52]

I've owned both T4 and then a T5-76.  I upgraded to the T5-76 because I always wanted a 76 key Yamaha arranger T5 did that. What pushed me to the T5 was also the organs and ensemble feature plus the usual great Yamaha styles.  During that time I also owned a Pa3x, eventually the Pa4x was released and I purchased one to help finance that Pa4x I sold the T5. In all honesty I got a little tired of the T5 as great a keyboard as it is.    From my point of view the Pa4x from Korg was a better machine for my live gigs.  Songbook on Korg and the number of physical controls, excellent vocal harmonizer sold me.  I guess for the last 7 years I've owned both Korg and Yamaha, I love them both, they excel in their own ways, I'm fortunate to be able to own both.   

Now on to Genos, I'll give it a 9.5 as Manuel gave it a 9.9999, for the reason, there's  real possibility that Yamaha will be releasing updates that I'm sure we'll all like.   I absolutely live the Revo drums and re-worked styles.  A couple of key factors for moving the Genos:
1. Live Physical Controls
2. Revo Drums
3. A major reason for my 9.5 is the new Playlist feature that mimics the Korg Songbook.  For me this feature is the proverbial "goose that laid the golden egg."  Although I used MFD on gigs along with registrations the ability to store registrations is a Playlist is fantastic.  Yes I could work registrations from folders for gigs but having the ability to arrange the Playlist in an order of my preference rather than alphabetical order that folders use is a huge feature.
4. I'm sold and have been on touch screens since I owned my first Korg a Pa800.
5. Although the OS is a bit different it still has many of the characteristics of Yamaha arrangers.

I'm not saying I'll give up my Pa4x but gotta say the thought crossed my mind to sell it after having the Genos for a couple of weeks.  My wife who thinks I needed a new arranager like I need a "Hole in the head" was very surprised at the sound.  She said wow, this sounds better than any other board you've owned.

At gigs in December I got some very positive responses from venues that I have played on a regular basis using both T5 and Pa4x.  I'm sold and in my opinion this board was worth the dollars paid.


Will I hope this answers what you were looking for.
Happy New Year everyone!

[Al Ram]

3. A major reason for my 9.5 is the new Playlist feature that mimics the Korg Songbook.  For me this feature is the proverbial "goose that laid the golden egg."  Although I used MFD on gigs along with registrations the ability to store registrations is a Playlist is fantastic.  Yes I could work registrations from folders for gigs but having the ability to arrange the Playlist in an order of my preference rather than alphabetical order that folders use is a huge feature.

Stephen
Just an additional resource for you to try.  Since You mentioned that you have Songbook. You can create playlists in SongBook+ instead of the Genos.   It is extremely easy to create and then move songs around in any order you want.    Then, the playlist is controlled from the iPad and automatically calls the corresponding registration.

You probably are ok with what you are doing.  Just to give you another alternative if desired.

thanks

[soundphase]

Hi soundphase, Many thanks for taking the time & effort to list all those categories, and to give them their score on an individual basis to make a total score of 6/10 improvement margin over a T5. I hadn't even thought of it that way!

Kind regards,
Will

Hi Will

Happy new year !

I thought it helps you to understand what I consider as a major or minor improvement (but it's my personal way to use the Genos). I didn't regret at all the change and it could have been considered as a « 10 ». But I think 10 would be a revolution and Genos is only a main Tyros evolution.

It would have been more than 6, if there were new edition tools for example. Styles are better but are less generalist. And it's always difficult to edit them because the style creator tool is not very powerful and Yamaha doesn't allow us to edit all tracks.

Regards
Soundphase

[mus07]

At gigs in December I got some very positive responses from venues that I have played on a regular basis using both T5 and Pa4x.  I'm sold and in my opinion this board was worth the dollars paid.

Hi Steve

I am still hanging on my Genos decision - I was hoping Yamaha would have come out with a newly designed OS but I am unsure about it - now of course this is all very personal and I fully respect all the views and reviews here. What frustrated me with my Tyros was its poor control surface with regard to performing/recording-live and from reading the Genos manual it looks like little has changed since the Tyros. (Just a couple of examples:- things like convenient bass inversion switching during a song and tempo locking for ease of style switching during a song (just 2 of my issues) and no "fingered" mode to support 1/2/3/4/5 note chords e.g. play a full major with just one key or with 2 or 3 or 4 etc... most other brands of arrangers have this - I don't believe Genos does.

As I said, this is purely personal and not a criticism of the the Genos or Yamaha.

Would appreciate your views...

Thanks
Pete

[alans]

Hi Pete

"and no "fingered" mode to support 1/2/3/4/5 note chords e.g. play a full major with just one key or with 2 or 3 or 4 etc... most other brands of arrangers have this - I don't believe Genos does."


Genos and all Yamaha arranger keyboards have the ability to play major,minor,major 7th and minor 7th chords using single finger mode,in full fingered mode the player has the ability to form many more  chord types.
Maybe I have not fully understood your meaning,but perhaps you would be best to read the Genos reference manual,it explains fully all the chord fingering modes.

Alan


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[Mark Z.]

My 10 points go to the Genos for giving me more and better
possibilities to be creative .

Happy New Year !

When you have a Genos and found out how everything works which
will take some hours you will see how good this instrument is .

I expect a good 2018 with my Genos and I hope many of you will
do the same .

MarkZ.

[Fred Smith]

Hi Steve

I am still hanging on my Genos decision - I was hoping Yamaha would have come out with a newly designed OS but I am unsure about it - now of course this is all very personal and I fully respect all the views and reviews here. What frustrated me with my Tyros was its poor control surface with regard to performing/recording-live and from reading the Genos manual it looks like little has changed since the Tyros. (Just a couple of examples:- things like convenient bass inversion switching during a song and tempo locking for ease of style switching during a song (just 2 of my issues) and no "fingered" mode to support 1/2/3/4/5 note chords e.g. play a full major with just one key or with 2 or 3 or 4 etc... most other brands of arrangers have this - I don't believe Genos does.

As I said, this is purely personal and not a criticism of the the Genos or Yamaha.

Would appreciate your views...

Thanks
Pete

You can certainly play a full major chord with just one key in Fingered mode. Also, I have no trouble maintaining the tempo when switching styles. I do it with registrations, but if you switch manually, there's a Parameter you can set to hold the tempo.

You should have asked your questions long ago.

Fred

[Will49]

You should have asked your questions long ago.

I quite agree Fred. And no disrespect to Pete, but perhaps it would have been better placed in another thread as well, as the intended purposes of this one is to directly evaluate the level of improvements Genos may have over the T5. Of course, a lot of 'straying off-topic' happens in most threads, but it just muddles things up eventually I reckon. 

Regards,
Will

[EileenL]

I Had Tyros 5 since it first came out and as I said to me Genos for me is better all round. Once you get used ti the small differences it is a joy to play so I stick by my 10.