Extremely Disappointed with Genos

[Spirit of the old South]

Everytime i read this topic title, it makes me wonder.

How can anyone be dissapointed by the Genos?
I just don't get it, i am having so much fun, and enjoying the sound so much.

[1-man-band-berlin]

I think, Yamaha praised Genos too much, so we expected too much.
Is the Genos an organ or not?
Well, the portable D-Deck type Electone organ hasn't a wooden cabinet, it is more like a Tyros/Genos with one more keyboard.
And in the 1970's there were much organs with one keyboard only in a suitcase.
I guess, that much organ users ignored the bass pedalboard, used auto bass and auto accomp instead, had a spinet organ with 2 x 44 keys - for these people a Genos/Tyros wouldn't be a disadvantage and if they dislike the look, they could buy a CVP arranger piano instead.

[StuartR]

Everytime i read this topic title, it makes me wonder.

How can anyone be dissapointed by the Genos?
I just don't get it, i am having so much fun, and enjoying the sound so much.

Agree. I've had several other arrangers, sold them all and bought two Genos arrangers, one for home and one for the studio. All around great keyboard.

[stephenm52]

Everytime i read this topic title, it makes me wonder.

How can anyone be dissapointed by the Genos?
I just don't get it, i am having so much fun, and enjoying the sound so much.

PLUS ONE!  42 years ago I worked in sales for a Hammond Dealer, at the time the top of the line spinet organ was the Aurora........selling price $4500.   Fast forward to today it was in the price class of the Genos, but could not nearly come close to what Genos is capable of sounding like. 

[Will49]

How can anyone be dissapointed by the Genos? I just don't get it...

Well, I think that question has already been answered. Some (including DavidB here in this very thread) have already given us their very explicit reasons why they feel Genos is not suited for their needs and/or tastes! I guess it's very much like the old saying goes: 'One man's meat is another man's poison'! I don't think there will ever be one keyboard (not even Genos following future updates) that will be everything to all people! 😉

Regards,
Will

[agoldstraw]

I have a Yamaha CP4 stage piano, which has the CFX sample as its 'centrepiece'. I also have a Tyros 5, and have played the Genos extensively in store.

In some respects. one could categorise the CP4 as disappointing. There is no string resonance, pedal noise etc implemented and there is quite audible looping on the decay of each note. However, in live stage situations, these are the little details which often get buried anyway, so one could argue (and I suppose Yamaha would) that the points I raise are not as critical as they might first appear.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get over is that this is a board of some compromises. However, even within these parameters, I can tell you that neither the pianos on my T5 nor those on the Genos get CLOSE to the richness and complexity of the CP4's CFX voice. Sure, not having a lovely, properly weighted action to play them on doesn't help (the CP4's NW-GH keybed is probably the nicest stage piano action on the market right now) but the pianos on the Yamaha arranger series sounds like those on a digital piano from around five years back.

David, for what it's worth, if pianos are a real priority, I would sell the Genos and attempt to track down a recent, lightly used CVP. However, all the above pales into significance regarding your recent health news, and I am very glad there is room for positivity there.

[keynote]

I'm not sure why some people think the Genos acoustic pianos are lacking in substance. The only reason I can think of is maybe their hearing is impaired - hearing aids do have a tendency to distort what it is you are listening to) or they haven't adjusted the EQ settings to a suitable preference. Listen to these Youtube demos and then tell me again why it is you dislike the CFX Concert Grand or perhaps one of the other acoustic pianos on the Genos??

Genos CFX Concert Grand Piano Demo

Genos C7 Grand Piano Demo

Genos CFX Concert Grand Piano

Genos - All Pianos, note... a few mistakes along the way

Genos acoustic pianos including S.Art CFX Concert Grand Piano plus other Voices

PS: Certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion but nobody is entitled to their own facts. No disrespect but the fact is the Genos acoustic pianos are perhaps the best of any arranger currently on the market and that includes the Korg Pa4x as well as the Ketron SD-9. Using a sustain pedal will also add more depth and realism too. 

Sincerely,

Mike

[StuartR]

Wonderful playing, Mike.

[SciNote]

That's the exact feeling I got when I had the first ever glimpse of Genos in one of the first video demos - by Martin Harris, I think. When I saw that his left hand was more occupied on the sliders and knobs than it was actually playing the keys, I remember thinking: "Goodbye arrangers... welcome to synth land"! I turned 69 last week, so maybe I'm losing touch as well!

And as for this whole thread in general, I'm amazed at how much it's turned into a discussion about piano voices and speakers/PA systems etc., etc., especially as there was much more than that to DavidB's displeasure about the Genos in his opening post. I'm also surprised that I'm the only one to have complimented him on his choice of instrument (the Roland AT-800 organ) when he announcement (Reply #86) that he had just acquired such a magnificent instrument! Makes me think that those who come from an electronic organ background (like myself) are a bit thin on the ground here. Heck, am I THAT old? Hmm, like I said earlier, I was 69 last week so maybe that explains it then!!!

Regards,

Will
To David B: If you still pop in here from time to time, and if you come across this... I hope you are still very happy with the AT-800. And, even more importantly, hope that you are also continuing to respond well to your cancer treatment.

I'm 54, and I originally learned keyboard on home organs, starting in 1978.  This coming March 21 will be 40 years from my first lesson!  My first organ was a small Wurlitzer 375 -- It was a (relatively) low-cost spinet, but had a very neat feature -- a small, synth-like 3rd solo keyboard (it was even called an Orbit Synthesizer).  Then, later in the year, when it was clear I was interested in music and that it wasn't just a passing childhood fad, they got me a Yamaha D-80.  This also had a 3rd synth-type keyboard that even had portamento!

I sold the D-80 in 1985, and since then, I have made an organ-style cabinet and have mounted a variety of keyboards on it.  I currently use a Yamaha PSR-E433 as the main instrument, and have a lower-cost Casio 88-key weighted-key digital piano as the lower keyboard.  For the bass pedals, I bought a cheap set of 1-octave pedals back in 1985 when I originally started this type of set-up, but they kept going out of tune.  When the tuning potentiometer was as far as it could go and I still could not tune it, I gutted it, then hard-wired the bass pedals to the lower octave of a small Casio MT-68 mini keyboard, which I use to this day.  Everything goes through an inexpensive multi-channel mixer, then on to a set of JBL powered speakers and -- when I really want to risk an eviction notice -- a 100 watt Realistic amp hooked to a Cerwin Vega speaker with a 15 inch woofer!

As for Yamaha dropping consideration of their traditional arranger customers all at once, I would certainly hope that is not the case.  If they have people with over four grand laying around to spend on a keyboard, they had best do what they can to keep those customers happy as long as possible!

[gary3917]

Why not just get an MP11 ? That is one hell of a set up Abby .you are awesome on youtube WOW !!!

[Seagull29]

Hi everybody,
As I said when it came out, although there has been some evolution in the sound, Genos is a scam in the sense that we have been told a revolution, whereas it is only an evolution certainly interesting of Tyros 5 of which it takes at least 90% of the characteristics. It is not the touch screen or the so-called live control which is used by a very little part of users , that justify such a price and such hype. Moreover, many have separated to go elsewhere, at least in France, on the side of Pa4X Korg which offers many more opportunities and especially regular updates, while at Yamaha, they are really few and bring nothing very new on the last model, as on the Tyros 5 besides when there was one!

[ton37]

Mmm, I wonder who you want to convince with your 'statement'? Yamaha... The Genos-owners certainly not! So what remains is ... yourself?? 

[Lee Batchelor]

Interesting comment Seagull 29. I had a hard time understanding your post, likely due to poor translation software.

At any rate, your "scam" comment holds very little water because even months after its release, Yamaha still can't keep up with the demands for a Genos. I owned three Tyros keyboards and I can tell you, the Genos is a huge step forward in sound alone. The Tyros is still a legend, but Genos kills it hands down in most ways.

Just my two cents worth  .

[EileenL]

Hi Lee,
  I have to agree that Genos is great and hundreds of us are enjoying it. No scams here.

[metcam]

Hi Lee,
  I have to agree that Genos is great and hundreds of us are enjoying it. No scams here.

Same here, the GENOS is great.

[Chris79]

I also love my GENOS which is for me an infinite source of inspiration.

the controversy with the Korg PA 4X makes no sense. These are two extraordinary machines.

We may prefer the sound color of one or the other; as we would have a preference for a BMW or a MERCEDES.

Both are beautiful and serve musicians.

[vadesriux]

Just received my brand new Genos yesterday. Have gone through:

- Roland D-20 with floppy disk drive (remember 1990?)
- Yamaha Motif XS6 (Wow...)
- Roland VP-770 (beautiful vocal ensemble + vocoder)
- Roland TR-707
- Korg Kronos 1st gen (great keybed, lightweight, but over complicated menus)
- Korg PA-900 (too plasticky for my taste)
- Yamaha AN1X (damn... why I had to sell it?)
- Novation Bass Station 2 (great keybed also + step sequencer delight)
- Korg Volca Sample + Volca Bass
- Roland SH-01a module
- KAWAI ES110
- KAWAI ES8
- KAWAI MP7 SE
- Roland RD-2000
- Yamaha Montage 6
- Native Instruments S61 MKI and MKII

and finally a Yamaha Genos. Uffff....

All of the above sold. Why? Just because I didnt connect with the instrument. The exception? Yamaha Motif XS6. Then why sell it? The weight... 15kg + bag on your shoulder stairs up and down = disloged shoulder sooner or later!

Why Genos? As soon as I realised the Genos only weighted 13kg and had the FSX keybed I was thrilled.

The Montage 6 was close but it came with a keybed issue (noises), and was over complicated to work with. Besides I realised I didnt want to spend my time tweaking / programming sounds but simply playing along.

There came the Genos auto accompaniment which works.... WOW! + great sounds + super intuitive and simple menus = playing and composing on the fly satisfaction.

So thats it. A trully great instrument that is worth every cent. Mine was 3150€ brand new, which is a great price (the best) in all Europe at this moment.

[SeaGtGruff]

Wow, that's a lot of keyboards you've been through over the years! I'm glad you're happy with your new Genos.

[Joe H]

As you grow older you will find that you may be young at heart ......

Thank you for that!  I'm pushing 71 years old and I... LOVE... EDM.  Give me more features on the next arranger too.  I would like to get rid of some of my external MIDI hardware if Yamaha add more Live Control capabilities to the arranger.

"Different strokes for different folks"



Joe H

[AlBags]

Genos is great!
The more you get your head round it, the more capable it becomes, and you will come to absolutely love it.

Al. 👍😁👌

[stephenm52]

In simple terms.   I LOVE MY GENOS!!


P.S. For gigs I use a Bose Compact or a Maui LD5.  When I'm rehearsing at home I use both units in stereo.

[AlBags]

If you use the Genos only/mainly at home, treat yourself to some active speakers.
Good ones are expensive, but will give a great improvement over the cheap accessory speaker set Yamaha designed for the keyboard.
Good Piano sounds carry a lot of bass, and the standard set wont give the quality.

Al.

[gary3917]

I would say do like Abby and get the best piano in the world .....Kawia MP 11

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

If you get the Genos make sure you have a decent speaker system and not the tin pot ones that go with it.
The Genos speakers are tinny with a sub boom box. All Tin and boom, boom.
To me It is like a transister radio with AMSTRAD written on It. Also comes with battery wires and a very messy layout.
Yamaha HS &,HS8 ,or better still Focal Alpha 50's.
No good running a Rolls Royce with a Mini engine.
The Genos on a decent system brings the 3d out more with realism.
Albags has also got It right
I cannot recommend the Focal Alpha50's enough,they are class. £187 each. The detail is mind blowing. A no brainer deal.
They have no volume knob, but are controlled by the Genos. These speakers are muted when switched on and when you turn up the Genos about half way they come alive after pressing a couple of keys. if you turn up Genos volume any less they just take more seconds to come alive. After they come alive, just use the volume that suits you
I am running them In at the moment which is 20 hours and I sit there with amazement at what they do. They are flat to pick detail out and when I tried Kraftwerk Autobahn and Music Non Stop It was astonishing. I am running the speakers In with lower frequency music as suggested by the Maker. Not EDM though. Kraftwerk Is where I stop at and Jarre. Just music that uses lower sound In general. On the Genos the Strings are 100% now. The whole lot is sheer clarity. Not if you have a bad hearing aid!!
ATB
John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

If you use the Genos only/mainly at home, treat yourself to some active speakers.
Good ones are expensive, but will give a great improvement over the cheap accessory speaker set Yamaha designed for the keyboard.
Good Piano sounds carry a lot of bass, and the standard set wont give the quality.

Al.

I totally agree Al and even a £1000 for speakers would be not over the top for a £4000 machine
If people pay a lot of money for a class keyboard then It is no good hooking It up to a transitor radio!!!or anything made by AMSTRAD!!! made In Timbuktu.
I would say to Alan Sugar  " Your Fired"!!


all the best
John

[DerekA]

I am wondering, if you buy a better speaker set, do you need to mount them on stands at ear-height or can they be placed on the floor?

Sorry if that's a stupid question.

[Robert van Weersch]

That depends on the speaker type. Studio monitors are normally very dependent on the direction and best mounted at ear level, directed at your head position.

[guitpic1]

Genos.  Best keyboard I've ever owned.

In the past I've had Tyros 4, PA4X, still have the S970 and owned PSR models before that.

Guess I've bonded with the Genos.

[Pianoman]

I would say do like Abby and get the best piano in the world .....Kawia MP 11

It truly is the best piano in terms of sound and key action. No arranger piano can substitute the feel of real wooden keys plus the synthetic Ivory.

This piano has the same key length and action of a Concert Grand, where the key action is
on a fulcrum, as opposed to springs.

I see that you have the MP7, which also has a very good action.

I find that the MP11, coupled with my T3, fully satisfies my musical needs for the moment.

It pays to take plenty of time to delve into the EQ and Compression of the T3, to make it sound
as rich and full as any other more recent arranger.

In fact it pays to delve into the EQ and Compressor of all arrangers, something that is frequently
overlooked, or underrated, or sometimes applied only as an afterthought.

My amplified mixer also has a compressor for each individual channel. I apply compression to my
microphone, and now and then very slightly apply this compression to the MP11 and the T3 channels.
The sound becomes absolutely phenomenal.

On the subject of speakers and monitors, while there are plenty of very good speakers and monitors on
the market, the perfect speakers or monitors do not exist.

The sound always has to be EQd and compressed to perfection in the instrument and the mixer,
before it actually winds it's way to the speakers.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Focal alpha 50s  You will be blown away!!


ATB
JOHN