Jørgen the Genos Styles cut out the VH settings .. Help Please.

[DrakeM]

I am working with a converted Genos style and the style Cuts out all the mic settings to a clean & clear sound. weird 

I simply load one of my other styles and the reverb setting and backup are restored.

Anyone have any idea what is causing this to happen & how to maybe fix it? For now I am going to move all the style parts into an exist old style that I know the settings work and hope that will fix what is going on with the Genos style.

I also did a quick check on about 20 other Genos styles and they also cleared the settings of the mic.

I wonder if this has something to do with Clearing the Revo Drummer maybe? I went and tried the Original Genos style and the mic settings are not cleared out with playing that style.

Regards
Drake

[DrakeM]

I moved all the style parts into an old style and then tested the style out  and .... the mic settings are CLEARED out ... ugh!

I am pretty sure this has something to do with running the style through the Remover RevDrummerCleaner program.

[DrakeM]

What confused me at first was not all the Genos Country styles I have worked up were effected. The reason for that was several of my first country styles, I worked up by hand and didn't run them through the RevDrummerCleaner program.

Regards
Drake

[XeeniX]

I didn't use REVcleaner in my conversions Drake. Not sure if that is causing the problem btw. But if you want to know if revcleaner does something to the style ruining mic settings test my conversions please. I solely used mixmaster to remap each and every midi note event.

For example a style with one or more midi note event in channel 10 that has a VintageOpen Genos drumkit

One of the midi note events has a value G#-1 (which is one of the closed hi-hats in that Genos kit).
I change the drumkit for channel 10 to let's say the T5 Acoustic kit first
Now I go to the G#-1 event anc change it to F#1 which is the closed hi-hat of the acoustic kit.

From time to I change a velocity level of for example a certain snare drum in this kit to sound at 90% of it's original level because the T5 snares overal seem to loud when used in a Genos style.
So no events get deleted and no events get set to zero.

The only program used to cactually modify/remap is Michael's Mixmaster.  use Jørgen's style revoicer and OST editor only to load a style and see which kits and instruments are used, not changing anything inthere. All other changes are made on my Tyros itself (effects, missing voices etc.)
Test it with one my latest conversions Drake and please let me know your findings?

regards,
Peter

[Jørgen]

Hi

Revo Drum cleaner software does ONE thing only...

The velocity of ALL Note On's in channel 9 and 10 BELOW note no. 28 - E0 - is set to zero... Nothing else... All other events are left untouched...

Jørgen

[DrakeM]

Well, this has got me confused as to what is causing the mic settings to be ignored by the style.

Peter had me check some of his styles as well. Out of 8 packs I checked only one styles let the mic settings work. He has been setting up his mapping of the drummer by hand.

Really weird what is going on. I will go back and redo some country styles by hand and see if I can figure out what is getting messed up in the style to cause this issue.

Regards
Drake

[DrakeM]

I have found the ISSUE is with the Original GENOS styles and not with the re- mapping done by hand or using the RevDrumCleaner program.

Now I need to find a work around to get them to work in older keyboards properly.

Regards
Drake

[Jørgen]

Hi

The value of "work arounds" must not be under estimated... 

Jørgen

[DrakeM]

Hi Jorgen

Do you have a program that will switch several style parts from one style to another quickly?

It looks like I need to transfer all the Genos parts into any OLDER style and everything will work fine.

[Jørgen]

Hi

Sorry, no program for this...

If you will have to move ALL parts to an old style, would it be easier to move the critical part of the old style to the problematic style...?

Jørgen

[XeeniX]

Drake,

Check out page 21/ beginning of 22 of the mixmaster manual. I think what you are looking for starts there or can at least help solving

Peter

[DrakeM]

Mix Master ... I have never understood what it does other than adjust the current style. What I want is the old program that you can import 2 different styles and then move all of MAIN A ( and everything else you want to do in one click).


Here is the program I am searching for:
VISUAL STYLER

http://web.archive.org/web/20071018023739/http://www.crestonhall.com/music/vs.php

This site in no longer up ... this is seeing it using the Wayback Machine.

Doses anyone still have this program to share?

[Patrick]

Hi Drake, Style works XT can help you; in style Edit mode you can copy and paste all the parts you want; you can also export some parts and then import these parts again in your style, all the best Patrick

[DrakeM]

Style works .. great, I have a copy of that installed ... I have only used it to work in midi files.

Okay, something new to figure out ... thank goodness I am retired .. some much work to do .. so little time.

I did just find my backup copy of Visual Styler ... but I am going to try and figure out Style Works.

[Patrick]

Ok Drake, good day Patrick

[DrakeM]

Looking at STYLE WORKS and I don't see that you can load 2 different styles at the same time and swap parts between them .. Am I missing something here?

I can see the program copying and swapping parts with in the same style but I don't see how to load a second style into the program.

[DrakeM]

I just installed Visual Styler and the program is too out dated and can't work with SFF2 styles it seems. When I went to save the style ... it "crashed".

Unless someone knows a way to move the style parts from one style into another faster than one item at a time ... I am done with trying to convert these styles.

I personally always just grab the parts from various styles to create my own custom song styles. So, I don't really need to get the whole style working in order to hear whether or not it has a part i can use and need for my own custom style.

It would have been nice to get these styles out correctly working to other keyboard users though.

Regards
Drake

[Jørgen]

Hi Drake

Visual Styler is no longer supported. It was actually my first programming project.
Well to be precise, I described some parts of the architechture only, as I had not learnt any programming in 1999... Yes, 18 years ago...
Besides discussing the program with Dan Phalen - Mojoflux - who is the programmer, I wrote the help file... in your language...

The programming is quite complicated. At the surface it is just swapping some parts around.
But behind the surface you will have to update several critical settings, i.e. the channel voice assignments, the CASM data, etc... etc...

Dan Phalen has stopped programming many years ago. He moved from California to Oregon - when he retired, I think - and is now manufacturing wood furniture...

Regards
Jørgen

[Patrick]

Hi Drake, you can export all the parts you want then import theses parts in the new style, have a good day Patrick
You can swap also parts from A to B, C or D as you want, ..... try it or delete the parts you want ....
cheers

[DrakeM]

Hi Patrick

I have an old copy of Style Works (I found on the net) and it doesn't really see the new GENOS style correctly. It works for SFF2 styles but I can't move the parts around on the Genos styles. I opened a Genos style and then saved it with a new name and only the first main was saved, nothing else.

Yamaha has really done some work on these new Genos styles in how they are set up it seems.

Regards
Drake

[pjd]

I am working with a converted Genos style and the style Cuts out all the mic settings to a clean & clear sound. weird 

Hi Drake and folks --

I've crawled through a few Genos factory styles in depth using SONAR. I'm curious about Yamaha's programming, etc.

I haven't found any Sy*** (or whatever) that explicitly configured MIC or the Vocal Harmony.

However, Genos DSP set-up is quite different than PSR-S950 DSP set-up.

Both the Genos and S950 configure DSP1. On the S950, DSP1 is used for the system variation effect or an insertion effect on a single style part.

Genos uses DSP1, too. No surprise. But, the Genos styles have additional Sy*** to configure DSP 2 to 9. These are XG EFFECT2 Sy*** messages. Genos uses *a lot* of insertion effects. I guess that's why it takes big money for a Genos. 

Here are just a few of the EFFECT2 messages:

F0 43 10 4C 03 00 00 4C 20 F7   EFFECT2 DSP2 Insertion Effect
F0 43 10 4C 03 02 00 53 25 F7   EFFECT2 DSP4 Insertion Effect
F0 43 10 4C 03 03 00 5F 20 F7   EFFECT2 DSP5 Insertion Effect
F0 43 10 4C 03 04 00 53 29 F7   EFFECT2 DSP6 Insertion Effect
F0 43 10 4C 03 05 00 4C 00 F7   EFFECT2 DSP7 Insertion Effect
F0 43 10 4C 03 06 00 53 29 F7   EFFECT2 DSP8 Insertion Effect
F0 43 10 4C 03 07 00 53 29 F7   EFFECT2 DSP9 Insertion Effect

The messages above choose DSP effect type. There are also EFFECT2 messages to change DSP parameters and to assign each DSP unit to a style part (MIDI channel).

The PSR-S950 factory styles do not contain these messages. DSP 2, 3, 4 are dynamically assigned by the S950, typically to RIGHT1, etc. However, DSP4 is assigned to the MIC/Vocal Harmony.

Perhaps the EFFECT2 DSP set-up messages are affecting the MIC/Vocal Harmony configuration?

Hope this info helps troubleshooting -- pj

P.S. Thanks for your great work, Drake!

[Patrick]

Hi Drake you've to convert the Genos styles in SF1 format before; in Edit style mode you can then make your change; all the best Patrick

[DrakeM]

Hi Patrick,

I guessed at what you want me to try.

I downloaded "Style Format 2 Convert" installed it and then ran the Genos style called "AcousticBluegrass.T554.prs" in the program.

I got an error message. "Sorry, but an excepton occured at sf2c.Form1.convertfile()"

So, in more detail .. what is it that works in converting the Genos styles for usage in the older keyboards.

Thanks,
Drake

[Patrick]

Hi  Drake i've ckecked the soft and all is working perfectly; you must use style format 2 converter from Jorgen to have SFF1 styles; then load the style in Style Works; open Style Editor; make your change here; you can swap the parts from one variation to the others you want; export some parts and the import theses parts back in the new style loaded; it's works so try again as you can mix the styles as you want; cheers Patrick


PS: perhaps you've use "style old format converter" it's not the good one! The beguine style loaded HP

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[Patrick]

Hi Drake, check the DSP used in the mixing console and save your setting in a registration; open VH, check the DSP4 used and check if your microphone is choosen! MIC/Guitare on right 1 for exemple; select the effects you want to add to the Right 1 voice and sing at the same time; so i hope you'll have soon a solution; DSP4 for the microphone on S970, cheers Patrick

I've just used it and its perfect!

[Jørgen]

...
I downloaded "Style Format 2 Convert" installed it and then ran the Genos style called "AcousticBluegrass.T554.prs" in the program.

I got an error message. "Sorry, but an excepton occured at sf2c.Form1.convertfile()"
...

Hi Drake

Just tried the same file in "Style Format 2 Converter" - ver. 1.18 -
Converted fine without any problem!

Is your style file corrupt?
Which software version do you use? Menu Help -> About

Jørgen

[Jørgen]

...
you must use style format 2 converter from Jorgen to have SFF1 styles
...

Hi Patrick

I am of course pleased to see you use my software program.

But to be honest I can not figure the idea in converting to SFF1 in this case...

Please explain...

Jørgen

[Jørgen]

...
the Genos style called "AcousticBluegrass.T554.prs"
...

Hi Drake

I have analyzed the style file now...

There seems to be an error in the style file in Ending A - beginning of the 2. measure. - check attachment
It looks like a "hanging note"... in the Bass channel...
To be more precise, you will have to wait a very long time for the "Note Off" event to occur...

This error has NOT caused any trouble in my software program; but it MIGHT cause trouble in other situations and other software...

Jørgen

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[Patrick]

Hi Jorgen, style Works is using SFF1 styles format for the old version; Drake want to convert the styles from Genos in SFF1; it can be loaded in style Works where in Edit mode he 'll be abble to change some parts between styles; all the best jorgen and Merry Christmas, Patrick

[Jørgen]

Thanks Patrick

And all the best wishes to you...

Jørgen