Genos and the best Daw

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Just as you get your Genos and set it all up another bombshell arrives.
Someone has dropped an EMP warhead on Sonar Platinum. GIBSON!! Bang!!

If you jump ship with a Sonar product, you can get a crossgrade, but having to learn a new pro daw will take another century.
Well for the home studio production with the Genos, It Is time to consider Cubase Elements at only £86 as this will be updated to have the Genos Instrument files and also compatible.
For people owning Sonar platinum considering a Crossgrade immediately, I would hold on.
Get Elements for now as Mixcraft may well take Sonar on and Mixcraft is so easy to get around at the moment for Vst, but not for midi. Also no Sys Ex. So a little wait there maybe.

I have looked at Cubase Elements 9  for the Genos and that would be great for the Genos and not so complicated as the pro version with all It's tweaky bits which runs into the thousands.
Does anyone know when the Instrument definition file will be  put out as an update  for the Genos??
The real limitation with Elements is 24 track and that is not so bad as you could turn a Genos song to wave and then add vst's if you wanted to. If you want to put In loads of orchestra instuments and articulations etc maybe the pro version is needed.
For me I am going for cubase Elements 9.5 as it will suit the Genos and use Mixcraft for vst
I have read also for people who do not want to lose some vst's from Sonar like Breverb etc ,you can approach the maker and get a vst version for a small fee. I will have to sift through my Sonar Instruments and effects.
Guess what there is a new word "Sonar Refugees"!!!what!!
The only trouble with Cubase Is all the Dingles and Dongles!!


All the best
John

[Spirit of the old South]

For a Yamaha product, there always seems more integration with Cubase.
I don't see much reasons to choose anything else if you just want to use it for recording.

[maartenb]

I agree with "Spirit". Cubase seems like a logical choice, since it's Yamaha.

Peter Baartmans uses Logic Pro on an Apple.

I use REAPER, because it runs rock solid, doesn't need a fast computer, doesn't have limitations (it has unlimited tracks), has a very fair pricing scheme, and... no dongle! It may be a bit more complicated than Cubase, although I don't know for sure.


Maarten

[Christophermoment]

I tried most DAW's a couple of years ago and settled on Cubase (They are all good). It can be as simple or as complicated as you need, support is very good. On the Steinberg Youtube site they have excellent tutorials from basic to advanced. If you move up onto the higher versions once you are comfortable with what you have learned in Elements you have features like external instruments where you can use your Genos as a VST. Another good feature is the Transformer where all 16 incoming midi tracks can be routed to VST's and you could play live using your part select on keyboard to turn on and off the channels. I also just for fun had the 8 tracks in the style play voices from various VST's, sounded great.

Christopher.

[SeaGtGruff]

John, if you leave your existing copy of SONAR on your computer then Mixcraft and other DAWs might possibly be able to use SONAR's virtual instruments and effects. Do you see them listened in Mixcraft when you look at the available instruments and effects?

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Mike
You are right there a a few instruments and effects in Mixcraft from Sonar showing
I have downloaded some the  Lp,  Eq  and multiband effects and put the serial numbers in the same folder and  Dimension Pro, Zte synth.
I am going through what I can salvage before the program is cut off.
I also heard that Mixcraft are Interested In taking on Sonar. Maybe, maybe not or rumour.
For the midi side I could go with Cubase Elements as the Pro version would be another giant learn curve.


All the best
John

[markstyles]

I had bought Logic, before it was owned by Apple.  I figured once they acquired it; it would be around a long time.. At this point, all the major DAWs. are good.

But I would NOT want to learn a new DAW at this point..  Because Yamaha owns  Cubase, I believe it would be an excellent choice.. Yamaha will continue to support and improve it. In fact I complain to Apple the Logic needs a 'chord' track like Cubase.

I feel bad for Sonar users.   I absolutely HATE to see these large companies, being acquired and bought up by even bigger companies.. Cause once a company wipes out the competition, they can raise their prices, and the user has little choice.

[SeaGtGruff]

I also heard that Mixcraft are Interested In taking on Sonar. Maybe, maybe not or rumour.

I logged into the Acoustica Mixcraft forums to look for any mention of this, and saw references to active discussions about Mixcraft in the Cakewalk SONAR forum, so I followed the link there. It seems that there are a number of SONAR users who are looking into Mixcraft as a possible replacement for SONAR, and one or two folks from Acoustica are involved in the discussions, but I don't see any mention of Acoustica being interested in acquiring SONAR, just ex-SONAR users.

[agoldstraw]

If you already have a Mac, it's hard to get past Logic Pro X for sheer value for money. Otherwise, a lot of people are saying nice things about Presonus's Studio One.

[SeaGtGruff]

a lot of people are saying nice things about Presonus's Studio One.

I have PreSonus Studio One Prime-- the free edition of Studio One-- and like it a lot. The free edition is pretty limited, of course.

[Kokoriz]

I tried most DAW's a couple of years ago and settled on Cubase (They are all good). It can be as simple or as complicated as you need, support is very good. On the Steinberg Youtube site they have excellent tutorials from basic to advanced. If you move up onto the higher versions once you are comfortable with what you have learned in Elements you have features like external instruments where you can use your Genos as a VST. Another good feature is the Transformer where all 16 incoming midi tracks can be routed to VST's and you could play live using your part select on keyboard to turn on and off the channels. I also just for fun had the 8 tracks in the style play voices from various VST's, sounded great.

Christopher.

Hi Christopher! Do you mind explaining to us novice in simple term on how to set up Genos to do exactly what you just said in Cubase? Just upgraded to Cubase 9.5 and would love to have my Cubase and genos set up just like your set up. I am also using the Steinberg UR824 audio interface. Thank you much sir!

[Christophermoment]

Hi Kokoriz, I'll put something together with a few screenshots to show how to setup.

Christopher.

[Jeff Hollande]

Plse do not forget PROTOOLS.
Many pro recording studio's all over the world do prefer this DAW.

Jeff

[Spirit of the old South]

I agree with "Spirit". Cubase seems like a logical choice, since it's Yamaha.

Peter Baartmans uses Logic Pro on an Apple.

I use REAPER, because it runs rock solid, doesn't need a fast computer, doesn't have limitations (it has unlimited tracks), has a very fair pricing scheme, and... no dongle! It may be a bit more complicated than Cubase, although I don't know for sure.


Maarten

Having an apple i guess makes things different
Logic X is so cheap and offers everything the pro version of Cubase offers.
Also it comes with Mainstage and a huge collection of free high quality VST's.

Seems i overlooked that by being a PC owner.
But for PC owners and Yamaha i don't see an other viable option but Cubase.

[Spirit of the old South]

Plse do not forget PROTOOLS.
Many pro recording studio's all over the world do prefer this DAW.

Jeff

Yes you said it, Protools has added value for professional studio's.

Its way to expensive for home use. And i don't think many over here would even use the Pro features you pay so much extra for.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
Well, As Sonar is no more  and an alternative has to be found , It has to be Cubase as the Genos Is compatible with It.
Now the question Is Crossgrade to Cubase pro 9.5 from Sonar Platinum which is going to be a big learn curve again or Just go for Cubase Elements which would deal with the Genos also perfectly.
I have Mixcraft which deals with vst great.
The cross grade is at the moment I have found at Absolute music UK £249 for pro 9.5 which is a good offer. Just send them a screenshot or invoice from Cakewalk and the sale is complete
Do you think really going for that would bring a huge benefit, when Cubase Elements at £86 and already owned Mixcraft could do the same combined???
It could be an expensive game If you make wrong decisions and I do want to keep things as simple as I can.
Hard decision.

All the best
John

[Oldden]

Hi,
Cubase might do a good update deal if you upgrade from elements to the full version, sometimes its cheaper than paying out for the full program first, its worth finding out. Its also possible that elements will do everything you need, the full version would give you lots of extras which you might never need and you have paid for.
Oldden

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Oldden
This Is what I am thinking ,that Cubase pro gives you all the extras that most of us never use.
I have saved a few eq and Multiband/effects/Instruments vst's  and extras from Sonar Platinum that will work In any daw.
There Is quite a bit that will not work outside Sonar, but some essentials do.
In Cubase elements you can edit all the midi In the Genos, but only 24 tracks.
So if you wanted ,you can bounce down all the midi tracks to a wave file and add vst If you so wish with 23 tracks left.I have only used about 20 at the most through time.
I also have mixcraft and plenty of scope In there for vst tracks.
There is quite a lean curve thoughto Cubase pro 9.5.

All the best
john

[Oldden]

Hi John,
As far as I remember cubase will let you have a thirty day trial, I think that the full version needs an e licencer but the elements doesn't .
Oldden

[pjd]

Well, As Sonar is no more and an alternative has to be found. It has to be Cubase as the Genos is compatible with it.

Hi John --

I'm thinking about the future, too. However, the situation is not that dire and there isn't any need to rush into another DAW. Shucks, I'm still running SONAR Home Studio (from 2006!) under Windows 7 along with various other versions of SONAR.

I'd like to see if Yamaha does release Genos-specific support for Cubase before committing to Cubase. MIDI editing in SONAR still excels over Cubase and SONAR always seems to do the right thing when it imports an SMF (an operation that I do quite often). SONAR always seems to map the volume CC, patch selections, etc. to the track properties correctly -- I haven't been as pleased with Cubase in this regard.

Time to download free trials and do a few imports. Try before buy is a good way to go.

Take care -- pj

[Oldden]

Hi,
You would think that for the price of the keyboard that Yamaha would have thrown in a basic copy of cubase which has been set up for it. Or at least if one is not ready a link to download one in the future when you register your genos.
Oldden

[pjd]

Hi,
You would think that for the price of the keyboard that Yamaha would have thrown in a basic copy of cubase which has been set up for it. Or at least if one is not ready a link to download one in the future when you register your genos.
Oldden

Good point! I wonder if Yamaha could create a promotion for new Genos owners -- download Cubase AI and get the authorization code on-line. With Cakewalk in the drain, this situation would be a good opportunity for Steinberg/Yamaha to grab new users and market share.

All the best -- pj

[zionip]

Good point! I wonder if Yamaha could create a promotion for new Genos owners -- download Cubase AI and get the authorization code on-line. With Cakewalk in the drain, this situation would be a good opportunity for Steinberg/Yamaha to grab new users and market share.

All the best -- pj

Great idea, pj!

I wonder if Heratch is reading this thread.

Paul

[Oldden]

Hi,
On the same theme, I have a Sony camera and use a program called Capture One Express For Sony.
It's free, anybody can download it, but if you have not got a Sony camera it's no good to you. I am sure that Yamaha could make a version of cubase to do the same. If you have a Genos, it works it's fine , if you haven't, well it just doesn't work.
Oldden

[Kokoriz]

Hi,
Cubase might do a good update deal if you upgrade from elements to the full version, sometimes its cheaper than paying out for the full program first, its worth finding out. Its also possible that elements will do everything you need, the full version would give you lots of extras which you might never need and you have paid for.
Oldden

I think so too! I upgraded to the 9.5 from 9 for only 50 bucks but I think it should have been free update from 9?

[SeaGtGruff]

I think that the full version needs an e licencer but the elements doesn't .

All versions of Cubase need a license, but Elements is the only version that lets you use the eLicenser; the other versions make you use a dongle, which has to be purchased separately. And the dongle is needed even for the free trial. So if you don't already have a dongle, and don't wish to buy one, then Elements is really the only version you can consider.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi to all
I have done some digging around and I am amazed with what I have seen and read about Cubase Elements .
Firstly a pro musician on utube explains the differences betweem Cubase Elements and Pro version.
Actually there Is not a great deal. His reasons were 24 tracks  and no side chaining and a few othe intricate things,whereas the pro version has more instruments etc and unlimited tracks.
To me 24 tracks is plenty and unlimited would be usefull for making a whole orchestra and all of it's articulations which I think I would not be doing.
Really for the average multi-tracker Elements is sufficient I think. You also want a workable Daw without too many bells and whistles.
I saw a German video that I cannot understand, but from the graphics, I see Right 1 ,2 and 3 on tracks chord track and chord names. It seems It can mirror the Yamaha keyboard connected.
It would be nice to have a great English video on how to set the Genos or Tyros up and do some multi-tracking or an on line manual.
I do not know if this Is all explained for the likes of the Tyros and Genos In the cubase manual in depth.
I am sure If Yamaha explained more the Cubase daw would be flying out the window to more users.
It Is daunting enough when your favourite daw goes to the wall.!!
For cubase owners not even a INS def file yet, so probably nothing else for a long time.
These companies need to know that people would like things explained more easily.
We are not all Einsteins you know!!

[Christophermoment]

Hi Kokoriz, First go to menu 'Studio', select Audio Connections, tab along to External Instruments, select Add External Instruments, in the window that opens up select Associate Midi Device, select Midi Device, select Genos press ok. Then select under Device Port the Inputs you have your keyboard audio outputs connected to. i.e UR824 Input Then close window. Go to Rack and in the drop down menu select External Plug-ins, select Genos. You will be asked if want to associate a midi track with the device, click yes and in the input/output channels the instrument will appear as a VST device with the midi and audio set up as is normal with a VST. You can then treat your external keyboard as you would any other VST instrument and use all the effects you might normally apply, render, freeze as well. As it is a keyboard the mix down will of course happen in real time as opposed for the seconds it takes to render a normal VST. Hope this helps.

Christopher.

[Mazeka]

Great idea, pj!

I wonder if Heratch is reading this thread.

Paul

Just started

[Mazeka]

Just as you get your Genos and set it all up another bombshell arrives.
Someone has dropped an EMP warhead on Sonar Platinum. GIBSON!! Bang!!

If you jump ship with a Sonar product, you can get a crossgrade, but having to learn a new pro daw will take another century.
Well for the home studio production with the Genos, It Is time to consider Cubase Elements at only £86 as this will be updated to have the Genos Instrument files and also compatible.
For people owning Sonar platinum considering a Crossgrade immediately, I would hold on.
Get Elements for now as Mixcraft may well take Sonar on and Mixcraft is so easy to get around at the moment for Vst, but not for midi. Also no Sys Ex. So a little wait there maybe.

I have looked at Cubase Elements 9  for the Genos and that would be great for the Genos and not so complicated as the pro version with all It's tweaky bits which runs into the thousands.
Does anyone know when the Instrument definition file will be  put out as an update  for the Genos??
The real limitation with Elements is 24 track and that is not so bad as you could turn a Genos song to wave and then add vst's if you wanted to. If you want to put In loads of orchestra instuments and articulations etc maybe the pro version is needed.
For me I am going for cubase Elements 9.5 as it will suit the Genos and use Mixcraft for vst
I have read also for people who do not want to lose some vst's from Sonar like Breverb etc ,you can approach the maker and get a vst version for a small fee. I will have to sift through my Sonar Instruments and effects.
Guess what there is a new word "Sonar Refugees"!!!what!!
The only trouble with Cubase Is all the Dingles and Dongles!!


All the best
John

Hello,

Best DAW is a quality that reflects how you use it and if it able to perform function you need.

1- "All" DAW will do the same function one way or another. Possible few exception. but its true when comparing similar level of each brand.
2- When it comes to MIDI, I would say "all" DAW have accurate MIDI timing ( Depending on the MIDI interface used or direct USB connection) generally both cases are good.
3- Each DAW does have its own "color" when it comes to record and play back audio. When comparison is made using the same audio interface.
4- The protection method, it is what it is. One thing I like about the "dongle" is I can install the software on several computers, and move the dongle to any computer even if it not my computer. But, be carful not loose the dongle. you are safe if it gets damaged " it can be replaced and code will be transferred"
5- Audio interface is part of "Best" DAW experience. There is a happy integration for example between Cubase and UR interfaces. especially, the models that have DSP.
6- Instrument definition integration is a big plus otherwise not the end of the world. you can used LSB MSB. I still do that ... yikes......lol
7- Now that the Genos has the amazing number of DSP, when your are done with midi editing, print the parts with their DSP. They are top quality and relives you CPU fr other specialty plug in. I don't print the reverb or delay unless I am mixing along the way of composing or I am very sure of what I hear.

So in  the DAW, well in my DAW I do the following :
1- I use the Piano roll to edit the MIDI events. Notes and controllers such as expression. Specially the controllers for the SA2 voices.
2- The drum editor to edit the drum midi tracks.
3- Opens the midi file I capture on Genos using the real time recorder, or my favorite, the chord entry feature.
4- Does all the needed edits,
5- Creates the score for every part. And I actually print them on fancy paper, frame them and hang them on my wall. Very cool decor art.
6- I convert each midi track to audio by creating and audio track for each midi track and record it.
7- I use the divide midi function to separate the drum midi track based on pitch to separate MIDI tracks. Now I have kick, care, hats ..etc on separate tracks and then record them as separate audio tracks. for more profession control over the mix to my standards.... at lease I think I know what I am doing... haha haha.
8 -few more functions here and there.......

Remember, you can capture the music content from the Genos, or you can use the Genos as a supper 32 parts sound module. so can sequence 32 MIDI part, because the Genos has two MIDI ports, each with 16 Parts.

If you want to know, I do use Cubase with UR824.

Please don't hesitate to ask specific question about the process.

I might have some time to record a video on this process.

Sorry for snd spelling or wrong words, I just finished few dealer visits, and it is 1 am here in Baltimore away from home. I am still on LA time.



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