Genos and MFC-10

[usaraiya]

Does Genos support MFC-10 Foot Controller which  T5 supported?

The specs avoided this, it should but I'm not sure?



Uday

[Marcus]

I couldn't any reason why the Genos would not support the MFC-10. Yamaha appeared to put a lot of thought into the Genos and was very careful not to remove any important functions and features from previous arranger models.

You are correct that Yamaha left out the mention of the MFC-10 in the published Vital Specs list, but this list doesn't appear to be as comprehensive as the typical Specs list from the owners manual. The MFC-10 is a nice pedal unit. I cannot see why Yamaha would withdraw its support or fail to keep it in the Genos Function MIDI menu. Just have to wait for the more detailed Genos manuals and specs to make sure.

Marcus

[Spirit of the old South]

I couldn't any reason why the Genos would not support the MFC-10. Yamaha appeared to put a lot of thought into the Genos and was very careful not to remove any important functions and features from previous arranger models.

You are correct that Yamaha left out the mention of the MFC-10 in the published Vital Specs list, but this list doesn't appear to be as comprehensive as the typical Specs list from the owners manual. The MFC-10 is a nice pedal unit. I cannot see why Yamaha would withdraw its support or fail to keep it in the Genos Function MIDI menu. Just have to wait for the more detailed Genos manuals and specs to make sure.

Marcus

even if it doesn't have the menu inside the Genos.
You can always make it work programming the MFC10 with midi calls.

[voodoo]

even if it doesn't have the menu inside the Genos.
You can always make it work programming the MFC10 with midi calls.

Yes, but by programming the midi cc not all functions are accessible that are in the t5 mfc10 menu. I tried the mfc10 with the s970 and sent it back because it was not helpful.

I hope that the Genos supports the pedal (by translating midi notes to internal functions not accessible by midi directly).

[frankmusik]

Hi Uday,
I made a small video with the midi pics ..
https://youtu.be/d3dqr9rhVW4
frank

[DavidB]

Very useful, thanks Frank.

I couldn't see anywhere on those screens where it said it was set up for the MFC10, just MIDI. I thought there would be dedicated MFC10 set up screen(s) like there is on the Tyros?

Or did I miss something?

[usaraiya]

Thank you so much for your effort, very useful.

Uday

[pjd]

Hi --

Thanks, Frank!

Hey, that "External Controller" page looks interesting. Looks like the replacement for the Tyros MFC10 page.

CC/Note     Function          Part
----------  ----------------  ----------
CC#7/ -     Expression        Right1   
CC#1/ -     No Assign         Right1
CC#2/ -     No Assign         Right1
CC#3/ -     No Assign         Right1
CC#4/ -     No Assign         Right1
CC#0/C#-1   Style Start/Stop  -
CC#5/D-1    Fill Down         -
CC#6/Eb-1   Fill Self         -

I didn't realize that any old MIDI controller could be used in place of the MFC10! Having note number control opens up some interesting possibilities... Maybe use a Reface to control Genos?

-- pj

[tyrosaurus]

Hi pj,

The MFC10 assignments made on the Tyros models, respond to MIDI notes generated externally on the designated channel, however they are produced!

I have even tried it successfully on my Tyros4 with notes sent from my computer, generated by MIDI-OX, so an external keyboard should work fine.

Unfortunately MIDI notes generated from the keyboard's internal Song Player do not work.

The GENOS screenshot in Frank's video seems to suggest that as an alternative to using notes, you can also send MIDI CCs instead, which is new!

Regards

Ian

[Kari V]

Unfortunately MIDI notes generated from the keyboard's internal Song Player do not work.

They would if you send the MIDI notes to MIDI out A and loop them back to MIDI in B. However, I don't know for what
purpose you would do that?

[pjd]

Hi Kari --

With loop back, it would be way to control aspects of the Genos from the keyboard itself. That might be appealing to some folks.

On a related topic, I'd like to repurpose (via mapping or whatever) a few buttons or keys to control page turns in forScore or some other notation viewer app. Maybe send MIDI over wifi to an iPad app that can flip pages in response to MIDI. It would be great to do this without having to drag a dongle, wires or external interface to the gig. I've got enough wires already. 

All the best -- pj

[soryt]

To be clear , there is not a dedicated MFC10 Page in the Midi set-up ?
You have to make youre own template's on the Genos ?
It would be a big "minor" for me 

Soryt 

[Spirit of the old South]

Hi Uday,
I made a small video with the midi pics ..
https://youtu.be/d3dqr9rhVW4
frank

I like how you can assign a midi channel to upper and lower sounds.
Which i will use for connecting to my DAW and playing VST's.

I am going to change my Pc's audio interface, to be compatible with the Genos digital out.

Now, this leaves me with a question about V-console.
What outputs does it use on Tyros 5?
I hope it doesn't use the upper and the lower outputs.

[zionip]

Does Genos support MFC-10 Foot Controller which  T5 supported?

The specs avoided this, it should but I'm not sure?



Uday

Hi Uday,

Yamaha has the following instruction published to program MFC-10 buttons to trigger style play control for PSR and Tyros lines of arrangers,  I configured my MFC-10 the same way for Genos and it works flawlessly:
http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/musical-instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/psr-s910/427/7187/

lacobo posted a very helpful message about setting up the expression pedal of the MFC-10 for volume control, I programmed mine accordingly and it works and has replaced my previous volume foot controller, freeing up the volume pedal port on Genos for other assignable functions:
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,31526.msg234617.html#msg234617

lacobo said:
"To Program the Foot pedal: (the volume pedal on the right side of the MFC-10)
1 Hit button 1 of the MFC10 in F-mode (F01 appears in the display)
2 Press the FC Edit button
3 Set the Status to bF (+ FC Edit button)
4 Set DataContrl to 007 (+ FC Edit button)
5 Set Max to 127 (+ FC Edit button)
6 Set Min to 0 or higher (+ FC Edit button)
7 Press the Write/Exit button
8 Press the Inc/Yes button to save the setting
9 Set in the PSR-S970 the receiving midi-channel A16 to Keyboard  <-- On Genos, the default midi channel for this is already A16.

And voilla, you can alter the volume of the voices you play."

Now my foot pedal controllers for Genos, include MFC10 for style triggers and overall volume control, M-Audio SP-Triple pedals for sustain, and other assignable functions:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/w47cKpQMHt9VRuKp1

In the above button programming process, the MFC-10 does not even have to be connected to Genos.  After you finish programming, just connected the MIDI out of MFC-10 to MIDI in (MIDI A) of the Genos and you can trigger style play and volume control right away.

Paul

[Nunnus]

It works! but badly or i´m missing something....


the SP buttons, for song control don´t works!!! big fail, if i´m not missing something, because in manual yamaha say that is possible to control the sp buttons by midi message

the rest of comands seems to work ok

[usaraiya]

Thank you, Paul & Lacobo for  the instructions in programming the MFC-10.
It works great for the Genos!



Uday

[Joe H]

This same question came up recently on another thread.  I believe the Genos manual refers to an "external MIDI device"  because there are other MIDI controllers than can transmit the sy*** Style Control messages and continuous controllers that the MFC-10 does.

Joe H

[lacobo]

Picked up my Genos yesterday. Now reading my own instructions to get the good old MFC10 working 
And within minutes it indeed was controlling the Genos.

Bert.

[Nunnus]

Picked up my Genos yesterday. Now reading my own instructions to get the good old MFC10 working 
And within minutes it indeed was controlling the Genos.

Bert.

can you check if you can control the sp1-sp4 buttons? because I can't, 
thank you

[tyrosaurus]

According to the Genos Reference Manual, the Song Pointers and Looping functions can be assigned to notes received from the external controller (MFC-10) if you set it to send notes to the keyboard on the same MIDI port/channel that is set for the controller on the relevant Genos MIDI page. 

There is a list of assignable On/Off switch functions 'Functions that Respond to On/Off Input' starting on page 140 of the Reference Manual.  The Song Pointers are at the very end of the list (on page 141).  Presumably they will also be at the end of the list displayed on the Genos.

The entry in the list says:

"Song Control SP 1–4, Loop.      Same as the Song Position Markers [1]–[4] and [Loop] in the Song Player display."

Are you saying that this doesn't work for you?


Regards

Ian

[Nunnus]

According to the Genos Reference Manual, the Song Pointers and Looping functions can be assigned to notes received from the external controller (MFC-10) if you set it to send notes to the keyboard on the same MIDI port/channel that is set for the controller on the relevant Genos MIDI page. 

There is a list of assignable On/Off switch functions 'Functions that Respond to On/Off Input' starting on page 140 of the Reference Manual.  The Song Pointers are at the very end of the list (on page 141).  Presumably they will also be at the end of the list displayed on the Genos.

The entry in the list says:

"Song Control SP 1–4, Loop.      Same as the Song Position Markers [1]–[4] and [Loop] in the Song Player display."

Are you saying that this doesn't work for you?


Regards

Ian

isn't working working,

all seems to work fine except this command, probably a firmware issue, that's why I ask if someone tried and if works, because I couldn't...

[zionip]

isn't working working,

all seems to work fine except this command, probably a firmware issue, that's why I ask if someone tried and if works, because I couldn't...

Hi Nunnus,

You said that it is not working.  Did you mean that you know the MIDI CC / note values corresponding to the SP1 to SP4 buttons?  Can you share what MIDI messages / control / program change values you used for SP1, SP2, SP3, and SP4 buttons correspondingly on Genos?  I could not find any such information on Yamaha's published manuals.  P. 141 of Genos reference manual mentioned it without showing the corresponding MIDI CC / note values.  I looked into the Data List menu of Genos, but could not find anything relevant to this either.

There is also no corresponding MIDI CC / note values provided for SP1 to SP4 buttons in the following Genos menu path:
Menu - Menu2 - MIDI - External Controller

We discussed this on the following thread and you have not replied my question yet:
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,41328.msg325304.html#msg325304

Thanks,
Paul

[Nunnus]

Hi Nunnus,

You said that it is not working.  Did you mean that you know the MIDI CC / note values corresponding to the SP1 to SP4 buttons?  Can you share what MIDI messages / control / program change values you used for SP1, SP2, SP3, and SP4 buttons correspondingly on Genos?  I could not find any such information on Yamaha's published manuals.  P. 141 of Genos reference manual mentioned it without showing the corresponding MIDI CC / note values.  I looked into the Data List menu of Genos, but could not find anything relevant to this either.

There is also no corresponding MIDI CC / note values provided for SP1 to SP4 buttons in the following Genos menu path:
Menu - Menu2 - MIDI - External Controller

We discussed this on the following thread and you have not replied my question yet:
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,41328.msg325304.html#msg325304

Thanks,
Paul

Hello Paul,

I worked with the mfc10 very well with T3 to T5 now with Genos is like I said before, as soons as I can have a tyros 5 with me again I will see it in detail, but like I said is nothing to much only a cc## or note number,

I can send you a small video with this problem in genos, I already send it to yamaha,


ps: I miss my tyros5 in several things.... :-(

[jpcoco]

Hi,
I want to program the MFC-10 so that the foot controller activate the pitch bend. The MFC-10 manual says to enter the code EF but it does not work. Have you got a solution?
Thanks

[valimaties]

Hi Nunnus,

You said that it is not working.  Did you mean that you know the MIDI CC / note values corresponding to the SP1 to SP4 buttons?  Can you share what MIDI messages / control / program change values you used for SP1, SP2, SP3, and SP4 buttons correspondingly on Genos?  I could not find any such information on Yamaha's published manuals.  P. 141 of Genos reference manual mentioned it without showing the corresponding MIDI CC / note values.  I looked into the Data List menu of Genos, but could not find anything relevant to this either.

There is also no corresponding MIDI CC / note values provided for SP1 to SP4 buttons in the following Genos menu path:
Menu - Menu2 - MIDI - External Controller

We discussed this on the following thread and you have not replied my question yet:
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,41328.msg325304.html#msg325304

Thanks,
Paul

Hi Paul.
According to "External Control" page, on Midi section, you can assign a function to a CC/Note. So, I think wherever you put those functions (you will find them in page 14 if you click on a function, like "Song Control SP1", "Song Control SP2", "Song Control SP3", "Song Control SP4" and "Song Control Loop") it has to work. I don't think it is a standard note or Control Change in this case, because Genos let you select a function from the list to a CC/Note.

Regards,
Vali

[valimaties]

Hi.
Please tell me what cables did you used between MFC-10 and Genos?

The Yamaha MD-BT01 Wireless Midi Adapter cannot be use, didn't?!

Thank you.

[zionip]

Hi Vali,

You only need one standard 5-pin MIDI cable to connect the MIDI out of MFC10 to MIDI A In port on Genos.  MFC10 has no wireless connection capability.

The Yamaha MD-BT01 bluetooth wireless MIDI adapter is plugged into the MIDI B in and MIDI B out ports on Genos (pay attention to the arrow indicators on each end to match the MIDI ports) to draw power from Genos, to provide bluetooth MIDI connection between Genos and iPad / iPad Pro.

Thanks,
Paul

[valimaties]

Hi Vali,

You only need one standard 5-pin MIDI cable to connect the MIDI out of MFC10 to MIDI A In port on Genos.  MFC10 has no wireless connection capability.

The Yamaha MD-BT01 bluetooth wireless MIDI adapter is plugged into the MIDI B in and MIDI B out ports on Genos (pay attention to the arrow indicators on each end to match the MIDI ports) to draw power from Genos, to provide bluetooth MIDI connection between Genos and iPad / iPad Pro.

Thanks,
Paul

I need to connect only Midi Out from MFC-10 to Midi In in Genos?!
So I don't need a dual midi cable?

[zionip]

Hi Vali,

In the past, we needed dual MIDI cables to connect between Tyros and MFC-10 when we configured the MFC-10 with the MFC-10 MIDI template on Tyros.  The Tyros needed the MIDI cable between its MIDI A out and MFC-10's MIDI in to send Sys Ex messages to MFC-10 to set the associated values.  However, after the configuration of MFC-10 is done, the MIDI cable between Tyros MIDI A out and MFC-10 MIDI in is no longer needed.

In the case of Genos, since there is no MIDI template for MFC-10, we configure MFC-10 itself directly.  So there is no need for a MIDI cable between Genos MIDI A out and MFC-10 MIDI in.  We only need a MIDI cable between Genos MIDI A in and MFC-10 MIDI out so we can trigger start / stop, intros, variations, break, endings etc from MFC-10 when playing on Genos.

Thanks,
Paul

Here is the recap of the MFC10 configuration method from Yamaha (good for Genos and PSR-Sxx0s):

Changing Style Control from the MFC10 MIDI Foot Controller

Last Update: 06/29/2012

NOTE: Make sure that the 2 switches in the back of the MFC10 are set to 'NORMAL' and 'MIDI'.

1. Turn on the MFC10.

2. Connect a MIDI cable from the MFC10 'MIDI OUT' to the keyboard 'MIDI IN'.

Assigning pedal [ 1 ] Controlling Style 'Start' Section:

1. Press the MFC10 [FUNCTION] button.
NOTE: The red FUNCTION led should be on.

2. Press the [ 1 ] pedal.

3. Press the [MEMORY EDIT] button to make the LED next to 'STATUS' blink.

4. Use the [DEC/NO] and [INC/YES] buttons to select 'F0' in the display.

5. Press the [MEMORY EDIT] button once to make the LED next to 'DATA/CTRL' blink.

6. Use the [DEC/NO] and [INC/YES] buttons to select 'c41' in the display.

7. Press the [WRITE/EXIT] button.

8. Press the [INC/YES] button to store the setting.

The MFC10 button [ 1 ] has now been assigned to control the Style Control 'Start' function.

NOTE: If needed, repeat steps 1 - 8 to assign commands to different pedals (using a different pedal in step 2).

TIP: Below is an example of how the different MFC pedals can be programed for different style commands.

Button [ 2 ] Controlling Style 'Stop'.
In step 2: Press [ 2 ] button.
In step 6: Select c42.

Button [ 3 ] Controlling 'MAIN A' Section.
In step 2: Press [ 3 ] button.
In step 6: Select c09.

Button [ 4 ] Controlling 'MAIN B' Section.
In step 2: Press [ 4 ] button.
In step 6: Select c10.

Button [ 5 ] Controlling 'MAIN C' Section.
In step 2: Press [ 5 ] button.
In step 6: Select c11.

Button [ 6 ] Controlling 'MAIN D' Section.
In step 2: Press [ 6 ] button.
In step 6: Select c12.

Button [ 7 ] Controlling 'BREAK' Section.
In step 2: Press [ 7 ] button.
In step 6: Select c32.

Button [ 8 ] Controlling 'ENDING I' Section.
In step 2: Press [ 8 ] button.
In step 6: Select c33.

Button [ 9 ] Controlling 'ENDING II' Section.
In step 2: Press [ 9 ] button.
In step 6: Select c34.

Button [ 0 ] Controlling 'ENDING III' Section.
In step 2: Press [ 0 ] button.
In step 6: Select c35.

lacobo posted a very helpful message about setting up the expression pedal of the MFC-10 for volume control, I programmed mine accordingly and it works and has replaced my previous volume foot controller, freeing up the volume pedal port on Genos for other assignable functions:
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,31526.msg234617.html#msg234617

lacobo said:
"To Program the Foot pedal: (the volume pedal on the right side of the MFC-10)
1 Hit button 1 of the MFC10 in F-mode (F01 appears in the display)
2 Press the FC Edit button
3 Set the Status to bF (+ FC Edit button)
4 Set DataContrl to 007 (+ FC Edit button)
5 Set Max to 127 (+ FC Edit button)
6 Set Min to 0 or higher (+ FC Edit button)
7 Press the Write/Exit button
8 Press the Inc/Yes button to save the setting
9 Set in the PSR-S970 the receiving midi-channel A16 to Keyboard  <-- On Genos, the default midi channel for this is already A16.

And voilla, you can alter the volume of the voices you play."

In the above button programming process, the MFC-10 does not even have to be connected to Genos.  After you finish programming, just connected the MIDI out of MFC-10 to MIDI in (MIDI A) of the Genos and you can trigger style play and volume control right away.

[valimaties]

This post of you (zionip - previous post) must be a sticky post in the Genos Foot Pedals Forum.

I did those settings before I read this post, even if I don't have yet the midi cable (I forgot purchase it when I bought MFC-10 )

I did it in the same way, but personally, I will use the pedal as Expression Pedal, not Volume. Because the Genos has not implemented yet expression on sliders (only volume control can be assigned to sliders, the expression control change does not exists in the list of controls), I think is more useful the expression, because (personally) in live performance the instrument used (accordions, guitars, trumpets,etc) can be more realistic using expression. For example, you can use expression to give the accordion's bellow technique(/operation), or when you use an S!Art Guitar, the sliders are given only when you hit harder till next upper 2 1/2 tones, this makes a loud sound for slide effect, but using expression pedal, you can make slide effect and softly... and so on... The Pedal is a little bit useless if I use it as a master Volume. I don't change to much the master volume, but the expression I use a lot (especially on strings )