Arpeggiators on Genos and S970 Arranger keyboards

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Dromeus
I had a father Into german OOOOmPah music,"Drove me nuts"

Now Shclager music is Eurovision song contest nightmare music

The only thing good about It all Is the BEER!!!

You did not mention the dreaded Pat Methany DOOO DOOOS!   Ug!!

[Joe H]

Hey guys,

This thread is about arpeggiators... not what kind of music you like.  So let's stay on topic please.


Regards,
Joe H

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

It Is no different to all the nonsense that has been talked about.
It brightens the day.
Still nobody knows what is going on ,just arping on about It

It's Friday Night!!! "get the wine out and the Fillet steak" 
see you Monday!!!

[Joe H]

Where it comes to arps, i would be highly surprised if it wasnt exactly the same as the arps on the s970.... all signs seem to comfirm that...

It does look that way doesn't it?.  But for the TOTL arranger, there should be a major upgrade in the number of arps and Arp Types.   Since the Genos has some OS upgrades due to the touch screen lets wait for the manuals to see if pressing the Harmony/Arpeggio buttons leads to a more substantial arp menu than the S970.

The Tyros has always offered more of everything than the top PSR S series.  I don't want to jump to conclusions. 

Joe H

[hans1966]

Hello Joe, I want to share here this Song that is called !! The Oh Of Pleasure !! by Ray Lynch, in which you can appreciate an excellent handling of the arpeggiator, this theme is from the 90s, I hope this helps a little, if I am wrong please let me know greetings     Hans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5syZh-b5QsA

[Tommy 73]

Hi sorry for the late entry due to many constraints on my time at the moment I am only dropping in and out of the Genos threads... but thought I would put this link up as I was asked previously about Arranger style vs Arpeggiator based styles on montage this link is from the Yamaha Synth forum ...thought it might be interesting where this question came up in the Genos threads https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/figured-out-a-live-use-for-parts-9-16 P.s. this forum is a good source of information for the montage ...when I own my time again I will try to drop back in all the best.

[CalUKGR]

Arpeggios can be amazing. One of the reasons I love to use Omnisphere (from Spectrasonics) is for it's truly impressive arps. They add such a lot of texture and interest to almost any sound, especially if (like me) you favour a more dreamy and ambient sound. I really like what Montage does with arpeggios and I'm hoping we get some of that goodness on the Genos.

[Joe H]

Hans,

Interesting piece of music.  Another good example of the use of arpeggiators.  I think it is possible to create music like than on the S970 building one track at a time on the MIDI sequencer.

Joe H

[Joe H]

Hi sorry for the late entry due to many constraints on my time at the moment I am only dropping in and out of the Genos threads... but thought I would put this link up as I was asked previously about Arranger style vs Arpeggiator based styles on montage this link is from the Yamaha Synth forum ...thought it might be interesting where this question came up in the Genos threads https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/figured-out-a-live-use-for-parts-9-16 P.s. this forum is a good source of information for the montage ...when I own my time again I will try to drop back in all the best.

Hi Tommy 73,

I think we can do very well with our arrangers.  Eight part styles plus 4 Multi Pads, plus R1, R2 layer with an arp on one or both right Voices, plus a Left Voice Pad or string Voice.

What we don't know yet is if the Genos has more than one arp.  It appears at this point to be only one. And will that arp be available for only R1 and R2... or can it be played in a style Part or Multi Pad   

I've been experimenting with creating style Parts and Multi Pads with the S970 arpeggiator.  Since we can create variations of the arp playback depending on the notes we play on the keybed, it is possible to create new and unique custom style parts and Multi Pads.  While this may not be quite as good as 4 or 8 live arpeggiators, it's a new tool for the arranger... which is a good thing.

And with the help of Live Control and my Peavey hardware MIDI controller, I can create real-time filter and/or Pan sweeps, as well as variations in the Amplitude Attack and Release Envelopes... all these can be recorded simultaneously as a MIDI song file and converted to style parts or Multi Pads.   



Joe H

[Joe H]

Joe... been playing a lot with Karma.. ( the arps on the Kronos)

And i love adding them to the left hand, thats also comtrolling the chords for the areanger.. Setting chord detection to full chord, allows you a lot of freedom with your left hand for playing with the arpegiator..

Well I can't do that with the S970 alone, but S970 - Motif Rack XS (MRXS) integration is very good so I'm looking at all the ways I can play the MRXS as if it is part of the S970. 

Examples are:

1. over-lay the 4 part MRXS Multi (4 live arpeggiators) with styles and Multi Pads.
2. Use MRXS arps to play S970 Multi Pads channels using S970 Voices
3. Create a MIDI configuration on the S970 to have MRXS arps play with the R1
    or
4. play along with left hand chords.

I will be making many new style parts and Multi Pads using the MRXS arps.  I also have a E-MU Proteus 1000 with the v2.2 OS upgrade wich has 16 live arps.   And I can never get by without my Peavey PC1600x hardware MIDI controller with its 16 long throw faders and 16 buttons... all of which are fully programmable to send ANY MIDI message.  The PC1600x also has a CV foot pedal input that can be assigned as Master Fader to controll any or all 16 faders at once (Super Foot Pedal.. kind of like the Montage Super Knob)

It would be nice to have all this capability in a single instrument... but that would mean Montage plus Genos combined.



Joe H

[Spirit of the old South]

The Genos has 216 different Arps on board.
The arpeggiator only works with the R1 voice
And there is no way to import user Arps.

Which makes the whole feature quite useless to me.

[voodoo]

The Genos has 216 different Arps on board.
And there is no way to import user Arps.

This is, what I expect. 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I wonder If It has a randomizer and programable like In FM8 vst.

[Joe H]

I wonder If It has a randomizer and programable like In FM8 vst.

The manuals are not available yet... so we will have to wait and see.

Joe H

[billtracy]

The Genos has 216 different Arps on board.
The arpeggiator only works with the R1 voice
And there is no way to import user Arps.

Which makes the whole feature quite useless to me.

216 arps is probably a case of not wanting to undercut the Montage.

[billtracy]

So who wins from that staement
Certainly not the customers..

What do Montage owners care if the more expensive Genos has several 1000's of their arps?

Maybe it makes some montage owners buy the more expensive Genos..

I dont think many Genos buyers would ever buy a montage

I'm just saying that if Genos has all of the Montage features plus styles, why buy Montage? But you are right, the customer loses with the 216 arps if that is an important feature. Is that a deal breaker in your case?

[billtracy]

It is...
There are more tough...

- no onboard creation of new sounds
- no midi messages assignable to the knobs sliders and assignable buttons
- the knobs are not encoders
- no effects for the multipads
- the organ world is gone
And a few more...


So far there is not enough there to warrant paying more then €2500 on top of my pa4x

Thanks for the reply. I wondered how folks like yourself and Joe H would feel about the number of arps when I heard Harris mention it.

[Joe H]

Thanks for the reply. I wondered how folks like yourself and Joe H would feel about the number of arps when I heard Harris mention it.

I didn't hear him mention it.  But as I stated in another thread or this one... the MX keyboard @ $500.00 USD has 999 arps and 2 live arpeggiators.   So I think Genos buyers are ripped off.  The Motif XF has far more capability for far less money... not to mention the enormous support Yamaha has offered over the last 15 years with Motif-Cubase Integration, serious software editors, documentation, blogs and forums.

Joe H

[billtracy]

I didn't hear him mention it.  But as I satted in another thread or this one... the MX keyboard @ $500.00 USD has 999 arps and 2 live arpeggiators.   So I think Genos buyers are ripped off.  The Motif XF has far more capability for far less money... not to mention the enormous support Yamaha has offered over the last 15 years with Motif-Cubase Integration, serious software editors, documentation, blogs and forums.

Joe H

Yeah, it's not like they didn't have the arp content available and had to spend time on development. They have existed for some time. Deal breaker for some.

[Joe H]

Yeah, it's not like they didn't have the arp content available and had to spend time on development. They have existed for some time. Deal breaker for some.

I'm concerned about no dedicated buttons to solo style parts or for turning style parts on/off.   I'll have to wait for the manual to see how this is done from the touch screen.  Not a good design for the arranger.  Dedicated buttons are necessary for any number of reasons while editing styles or auditioning Multi Pads to play along with the style.  Now that Yamaha is taking a "use Multi Pads to enhance style" approach, Part On/Off buttons become even more important for the average person.  I've been using this approach for 5 years and can say just how important this feature is.

Joe H

[voodoo]

I'm concerned about no dedicated buttons to solo style parts or for turning style parts on/off.   I'll have to wait for the manual to see how this is done from the touch screen.  Not a good design for the arranger.  Dedicated buttons are necessary for any number of reasons while editing styles or auditioning Multi Pads to play along with the style.  Now that Yamaha is taking a "use Multi Pads to enhance style" approach, Part On/Off buttons become even more important for the average person.  I've been using this approach for 5 years and can say just how important this feature is.

Joe H

The slider and button design of the montage is perfect. For the price of the Genos they could have taken that.

[voodoo]

I didn't hear him mention it.  But as I stated in another thread or this one... the MX keyboard @ $500.00 USD has 999 arps and 2 live arpeggiators.   So I think Genos buyers are ripped off.  The Motif XF has far more capability for far less money... not to mention the enormous support Yamaha has offered over the last 15 years with Motif-Cubase Integration, serious software editors, documentation, blogs and forums.

Joe H

Unfortunately the Genos is aimed at another type of customer: more sit and play instead of creating sound themselves.

[Joe H]

Uli,

I must clarify that I am a fan of XG.  Yamaha sound designers have set the Voice Envelopes in such a way that the Part Parameter Offsets... Attack, Decay, Release controllers do a fairly good job.  The advantage of this is real-time changes in both Filter and Amplitude Envelopes.

But I will also say that there are times when I would like to go deeper editing at the Element level.  At least we can do that with custom Voices in YEM.

Joe H

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Make your own arps and stick them on a pad

[Joe H]

Make your own arps and stick them on a pad

There are many arps that would be very difficult to make if not impossible without a live arpeggiator.  That's simply a fact. The arps that I am planning to make will have multiple real-time controllers as well as note data.  An important element of EDM is fluid and animated loops and pads, that include Filter and Pan sweeps and side chaining 

Joe H

[Joe H]

This one's for Bachus... and anyone who likes Trance music.  there is 10 minutes worth so don't stop at the first demo, there is a lot more to be heard.

"It's not what you got but how you use it"  or sometimes... "Less is more"

One Guy, One Synth, One Arpeggiator (Yamaha S90 ES) | JayB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCwXyVF0p3U

Joe H

[jazz.preest]

I'm concerned about no dedicated buttons to solo style parts or for turning style parts on/off.   I'll have to wait for the manual to see how this is done from the touch screen.  Not a good design for the arranger.  Dedicated buttons are necessary for any number of reasons while editing styles or auditioning Multi Pads to play along with the style.  Now that Yamaha is taking a "use Multi Pads to enhance style" approach, Part On/Off buttons become even more important for the average person.  I've been using this approach for 5 years and can say just how important this feature is.

Joe H

Don't understand this comment...in the Genos brochure, the dedicated Part On/Off buttons are indicated on the Genos (section 25).  Seems just like on my Tyros 5;  what am I missing here?

[Joe H]

Mike,

I think you are referring to Parts R1, R2, R3 and Left

I was talking about the 8 style parts... those 8 buttons (x2) below your Tyros screen.

Joe H

[jazz.preest]

Mike,

I think you are referring to Parts R1, R2, R3 and Left

I was talking about the 8 style parts... those 8 buttons (x2) below your Tyros screen.

Joe H

Ah.  Doh.  Thanks, Joe - blanked on the "style parts on/off" in your comment.

Right;  looks like Genos is focusing the artist's attention on registrations as a primary tool in conjunction with the touch screen.  Won't be surprised to see the style parts on/off functionality in the touch screens.

[Spirit of the old South]

Joe you probably misread my comment about the 2 rows of 8 buttons to the right.. they would pretty much work like the 4 rows of buttons on the montage... somif you want dedicated buttons for style part on off, you would have them... want to use them for something else.. you could do that..

With another of those nice small screens above them to give you information

This would not only add all the functionality you want, but also give the design of the Genos a much more ballanced look between left and right side..


By the way, saw you posted a video for me, i am in kind of a hurry, but will watch later today when i get home...

I think having the 4 rows of buttons the Montage has would be perfect to suit Joe and everyone else.
I think that part of the Montage design is genius.

In the end, having the montage design, with all the Arranger buttons beneath it and the just a little bit bigger screen would be perfect.