PORTAMENTOO!!!!!!

[metcam]

Request for all future new arrangers  from Yamaha:

Portamento on sampled Custom voices:

Yamaha : wake up please and make PROFESSIONAL PORTAMENTO on new arrangers.
There is a lot of musicians from Eastern Europe,Balkan,south east Europe ....and every were else who need PORTAMENTO same as KORG PA arrangers or DX models....
For a lot of musicians wil be a BIG reason to bay NEW Tyros6 or whatever is going to be named...

Since """psr9000PRO""" we keep asking you (Yamaha) and for some reason YOU don't LISTENING.


Please Give as PROFESSIONAL PORTAMENTO!

Thank you Yamaha.

[FantomX]

The new Yamaha PSR A3000 Legato and Portamento is similar to Korg models, currently is the sole arranger of the Yamaha has so! This makes the Yamaha PSR A3000 best arranger from Yamaha in my opinion (I wanted the same thing and I)

[travlin-easy]

The feature is already in the keyboard, and can be utilized by the foot pedal. Press the direct access button, then step on any of the foot pedals you have plugged in, and scroll down the list. It's that easy.

Ask and ye shall receive,

Gary

[metcam]

Offcourse Feature is there.


Questions how good is compare other competitors. NOT GOOD.


The Portamento on all Yamaha arrangers are very poor.

Regards.

[tyrosaurus]

Hi Metcam,

I don't use portamento much myself, but just out of interest, in what way is the Yamaha implementation different to Korg's, and what are the additional features of 'Professional Portamento'?

Perhaps you can point me to a YouTube video which shows what you want to see on Yamaha keyboards.


Regards

Ian

[metcam]

Hi Ian

Only Yamaha arrangers das NOT have Good Portamento.

The Best portamento is on Yamaha DX series keyboards and Korg Triton series.Also need to play that kind of music to really understand.

KORG PA arrangers are also very good.

Here is very good example of Yamaha DX-11 portamento;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVhVGz8nGtw


regards

[Brnjeuska74]

Finally someone get on this subject !!! Let me start of with thank you METCAM for bringing this subject up. It is about time Yamaha take a second look at this mystery subject. We are talking about THE BEST Keyboard there is and yet still missing this application on board. For those of you that are not very knowledgeable of informed about this effect please keep your comments to your self you are not helping. If you work with WAV sampling of sounds you would understand.
Portamento MONO/LEGATO is a MUST effect for many instrument if you want to play it like a live instrument.
So Yamaha please implement PORTAMENTO MONO/LEGATO on WAV format. Thank you

[overover]

Hi metcam,

what do you think about "PORTAMENTO Quality" in the brand new T5/PSR Expansion Pack "Phat Analog" (by Peter Krischker/Easy Sounds)?

---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BQAl4gFXLs

(for example, when you start the video at time position 6:05)


Regards,
Chris

[travlin-easy]

Personally, I never used that feature, and I play all kinds of music using a wide variety of right hand voices. And, I don't know of anyone that uses it. So, if it's such a necessary feature to employ, how about those of you that require it post some of your music so we can hear how it is employed in the specific songs where it it is required.

Gary

[metcam]

I don't think is meters who posting,,is meters that yamaha emprove in next generation. ....

Yamaha already knows about this and a lot of musicians who play portamento already contact yamaha.

Please my friends if you can't help,,,don't make it worst.

I love Yamaha,,and definitely Yamaha is my instrument. As a valued customar there is nothing wrong If we Ask them for something that's is important for kind of music we play.

Thank you

[pjd]

Hi metcam  and brnjeuska74 --

Thanks for posting about this.

You mentioned "Eastern Europe, Balkan, and south east Europe". I would like to learn more about the kind of portamento that you want, especially in the context of the desired music itself. I'm assuming that it's music within the native regional style.

Please, would you be kind enough to post a few more links or the names of artists/tracks to listen to? Thanks!

I'm working on a programmable MIDI controller project and listening to examples would expand my musical education. More info might help Yamaha, too, if they are reading this forum.

All the best and peace -- pj

[metcam]

HI pj


Basic words that is MONO-LEGATO playing!And on Yamaha arrangers with sampled custom voices (wav or aiff) not working at all.

It's hard to explain,but if you have near any other keyboard:Dx11,Dx21,Dx100, or Korg PA 800,900,pax3-4......... I am more than welcome to send yo you example and you try.

[Joe H]

metcam,

Have you tried adjusting the Portamento to suit your needs by using VOICE SET?.  The correct Portamento speed is critical for many instruments. Even for western instruments like Saxophone, whistles and Violin.

Joe H

[pjd]

Hi metcam --

Thanks! Unfortunately, I sold my DX-21 back in 1995 -- like everything else which went up in value after I sold it. :-)

Finally, "MONO-LEGATO" dawned on me. For other folks, here is a long quote from the DX-21 manual:
[blockquote]
Two different portamento modes are available: Full Time Portamento and Fingered Portamento. When the POLY/MONO function is set to POLY, only the Full Time Portamento is accessible. In the MONO mode, you have choice between the Full Time and Fingered portamento modes:

1. Full Time Portamento: A conventional portamento effect in which portamento occurs whenever a new note is played.

2. Fingered Portamento: Portamento only occurs if the previously played note is held while the next note is played. This mode is useful in recreating the effect of guitar string bending techniques, wood bass slide effects, etc. If you lift your hand off the DX21 keyboard between notes, there will be no portamento effect.
[/blockquote]

So, yeah, I see your point. I can't remember if the DX suppressed the attack of the second note or not? It's been a long time!

SA2 (Articulated Element Modeling) is supposed to handle playing techniques like this. Of course, SA2 is only on Tyros.

All the best to you -- pj

[travlin-easy]

In music, portamento (plural: portamenti, from Italian: portamento, meaning "carriage" or "carrying") is a pitch sliding from one note to another. The term originated from the Italian expression "portamento della voce" (carriage of the voice), denoting from the beginning of the 17th century its use in vocal performances[1] and its emulation by members of the violin family and certain wind instruments,[2] and is sometimes used interchangeably with anticipation.[3] It is also applied to one type of glissando as well as to the "glide" function of synthesizers.

I know what portamnento means, however, as I stated above, I've never used it, or heard it used in any kind of music that I've performed in more than 60 years. So, Metcam, if you think there is something that Yamaha can do to improve on this feature, I implore you to sit down and write a well thought out, constructive letter to Yamaha, something I have done many times, and for the most part, if it is something that can be done, they will do so, either with a software update, or changes in upcoming, new models.

Good luck,

Gary

[Joe H]

pj,

Thanks for the info.  Per the above definition... On the arranger we have only Fingered Portamento in Mono Mode, adjustable in Voice Set.  We also have "Glide" available by Foot Switch.  I've never used it but maybe that works on both Poly Mode and Mono Mode. 

Joe H

[tyrosaurus]

Hi Metcam,

I listened to Sadin Idic in the YouTube link that you posted and a few more videos including ones where he was using a DX11.  It's not a musical style that I am familiar with, but it certainly gets your foot tapping!   

I thought that Yamaha arrangers did produce what I would describe as Mono Legato portamento, which is presumably what you want.   So I checked a few voices on my Tyros4, and it does produce Mono Legato portamento - but only on some voices!

I would expect Mono Legato to only produce a glide if two successive notes are played legato, and for voices such as Ocarina and other flute type voices this is what it seems to do, as long as Mono is turned on and the portamento time is set greater than zero.  If you play staccato, then you don't get a glide.  The non SA2 string voices such as Violin, Viola  and Fiddle do this too.

However on other voices, accordions for example the effect is different.  If you play two successive notes with Mono turned on and a portamento time set above zero, there is always a glide whether you play legato or staccato.  In fact you can play one note and release it, then play the next note even an hour later (as long as you don't change the voice), and you will still get a glide from the first note to the second!   I assume that this is the problem (feature in Yamaha speak!) that you are referring to with Yamaha arrangers!

I think that I now understand what you were trying to convey.

Now even though I don't really use portamento myself, I can't see immediately see a situation where this latter effect would be of any use.  Remembering a note's pitch and envelope for any length of time after the note is released until the next none is played doesn't make sense to me, but I suppose it could be what some users want, synth players for example!  Incidentally if you use such a voice and play the second note very briefly and then press the same key again, the note is re-triggered from the beginning with all of it's attack and without further glide.

I assume that Yamaha feel that only certain voices would (or should) be used with portamento and have only programmed these to correctly play Mono Legato.   However the choice seems a bit arbitrary.  For example none of the accordions do, but then I don't see how you could play an accordion with portamento any way, so that may be sensible. 

However some of the pad voices do correctly play Mono Legato if adjusted (Sinespere, All or Nothing), but others don't (Heaven Pad, VPSoft).   

In the brass category, of the non SA2 voices that can be set up as Mono, Silver trumpet and Trombone play Mono Legato portamento correctly, whereas Cornet and Flugelhorn don't.

In terms of Custom WA voices (which use only external samples) I can't find any in my collection that play correctly in this respect.

In general terms it looks as if when you open the Common page of the Voice Set for non SA2 preset voices, those voices that have the Portamento Time set to zero will not play Mono Legato portamento, even if adjusted.  Those voices which already have a non zero Portamento Time programmed into them, do play as expected.

You say that Korgs do play Mono Legato portamento 'correctly'.  Do they do this with any instrument voice, even those where it would not be possible to play glides from one note to the next on the real instrument?   If they do then maybe Korg's implementation of the portamento function is flawed too!


Regards

Ian

[angelonyc]

Excellent summation Tyrosaurus;

[metcam]

Hi metcam --

Thanks! Unfortunately, I sold my DX-21 back in 1995 -- like everything else which went up in value after I sold it. :-)

Finally, "MONO-LEGATO" dawned on me. For other folks, here is a long quote from the DX-21 manual:
[blockquote]

2. Fingered Portamento: Portamento only occurs if the previously played note is held while the next note is played. This mode is useful in recreating the effect of guitar string bending techniques, wood bass slide effects, etc. If you lift your hand off the DX21 keyboard between notes, there will be no portamento effect.
[/blockquote]

So, yeah, I see your point. I can't remember if the DX suppressed the attack of the second note or not? It's been a long time!



All the best to you -- pj

BINGO!


""Ian""

Meaning Korg play 'correctly" I meant that MONO-LEGATO portamento working fine with Sampled programs.
One more time:Mono-Legato portamento working on internal Tyros voices,But not working on Custom voices made from "wav-aiff" samples.
  And Yes,I already contact Yamaha,continue doing since 1999.So many folks Ask them this questions and Yamaha so far about this problem newer listen.
   We know Yamaha watching this great forum so I posted here also....
Thanks

[jwyvern]

Hi metcam,
Here is further info about Tyros5 if of interest :
I recall portamento operating on earlier Tyros's as described by Ian. According to the manual Ty5 should operate the same way (set to mono and set a suitable PO time).  PO then works as Ian described in mono mode. And if you use the PO pedal it also works if you leave it in Poly mode with some difference to the effect.
Concerning custom voices, I have some installed on Ty5 which were originally uvn's made on Ty4 or earlier. I also have a few newer ones created in YEM for Ty5. I can hear Portamento occurring on all types, whether they are made from wavs, whether from preset elements, or a mixture of both- provided I press the assigned pedal and set a long enough PO time!
John  (Edited)

[Fred Smith]

Meaning Korg play 'correctly" I meant that MONO-LEGATO portamento working fine with Sampled programs.
One more time:Mono-Legato portamento working on internal Tyros voices,But not working on Custom voices made from "wav-aiff" samples.
  And Yes,I already contact Yamaha,continue doing since 1999.So many folks Ask them this questions and Yamaha so far about this problem newer listen.
   We know Yamaha watching this great forum so I posted here also....

So, you're now saying that Portamento works properly on Yamaha arrangers, right? That's quite a change from your first post.

And the problem you're having is with custom voices, not anything standard on keyboard. So isn't it the voices that need fixing, not the keyboard?

Regards,
Fred

[metcam]

So, you're now saying that Portamento works properly on Yamaha arrangers, right? That's quite a change from your first post.

And the problem you're having is with custom voices, not anything standard on keyboard. So isn't it the voices that need fixing, not the keyboard?

Regards,
Fred

On internal voices,Yes,on sampled voices NO.

Same custom voice (from same wav file) on my pa900 working Perfect.That is a fact .Somebody like or not ,that is a true.

For those who use portamento they know what is a problem.

For those who not use portamento and fill hurt because complain on Yamaha.....sorry.

I Like Yamaha 10 times more than Korg,,but fact is fact.

here is one of previus conversations: http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,27490.0/nowap.html

Regards

[FantomX]

metcam Hello, I am from Romania (Balkan area) and I understand very well what you mean ... BUT, the problem is not the Yamaha arranger Portamento function ! The problem is Mono-Legato function is not implemented! That was until coming to the market the new Yamaha PSR A3000 Oriental, which is the only Yamaha arranger that was implemented this function (which can be used including Custom Voice)! So if you want to Yamaha arranger -legato mono-portamento (Korg Triton or similar models Korg PA series), you buy Yamaha PSR A3000 Oriental! If you need an example audio Yamaha PSR A3000, to convince you .... at your disposal !

[metcam]

Heloo Fantom

Yes!!!!!!

That's it.I check owners manual and yes,under Voice edit there is options mono-legato.

I hope Yamaha will put into Tyros6.
ENOUGH reason for me to bay Tyros6.

Thank you

Regards

[FantomX]

Yes... and for me it was one of the reasons ( and the most important ) I bought Yamaha A3000 Oriental, instead of buying Tyros 5 . The other reason -Drum Setup !

[metcam]

I am very happy for you.
I'm waiting Tyros6 or whatever it be called. If that implementation is not going to be there I will bay A3000.
I see you have Prophecy and Juzi.Now you can do sampling and importing files from them into Yamaha A3000.

Best wishes.

[FantomX]

Exactly, that's why we have not sold Korg Prophecy ... Juzi Sound ... is something else ... it contains several types of mono legato (including Porta Speed, and more) that makes it unique in music Balkan ... but that's a different discussion  ! Most important ..Yamaha made a great step forward by introducing new functions: Mono-Legato and Drum Setup! Congratulations Yamaha. P.S.- If Yamaha will introduce the synthesis VL ( Virtual Acoustic Synthesis )example :Yamaha Vl1 , Vl7 , Vl70m , Yamaha EX5r ...will have "great weight" on the market  arranger or workstations !    Best regards  !

[Brnjeuska74]

Let's just stay on the subject !!! All that we need is tools !! Arranger Keyboard is all about make it the way you want it !!! If Yamaha wants to stay on that course than make it works !! It really doesn't  matter where you from !!!
What we need is Portamento MONO/LEGATO on WAV format !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   That goes for the new Tyros or however you name it Yamaha !!!

[Fred Smith]

Let's just stay on the subject !!! All that we need is tools !! Arranger Keyboard is all about make it the way you want it !!! If Yamaha wants to stay on that course than make it works !! It really doesn't  matter where you from !!!
What we need is Portamento MONO/LEGATO on WAV format !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   That goes for the new Tyros or however you name it Yamaha !!!

The problem is that Yamaha has only so many resources. They can't possibly implement every suggestion. They have to choose which they think will be the most popular and provide the biggest boost to sales.

If implementing this suggestion crowds out other suggestions, or raises the price beyond reason, is that fair? I think not.

Fred

[SeaGtGruff]

On the other hand, the fact that the newish PSR-A3000 apparently does what they're asking for in this thread might-- might-- suggest that Yamaha is thinking about implementing this behavior on other upcoming models. Did the PSR-A3000's predecessors behave the same way, or is it new to the PSR-A3000?