s970 & s770 erratic behaviour / faulty [A] to [J] buttons - is yours affected?

[Joe H]

Thanks for the reply.  Sounds like you and I have had just about identical experiences with our own S970s.

I notice the firmware update for the Tyros 5 also made mention of the button issue.  That's a curious bit of info!

Cheers,
Joe H

[Happy Jack]

Cameron,

Question: On the S770 that suffered serious buttons problems, did you by any chance try the System Reset thing by holding down the right-most white key while powering on the keyboard?  This helped with my board before the v1.05 update. 

Like you, it appears the update fixed my button problem completely.  I'm going to test a couple more times before I give my official feedback to Steve Deming at Yamaha.   In his email to me today he states he sees a noticeable improvement with his own testing, and asked for my feedback. 



Joe H

  Hi there,

   So Joe,  this recent software upgrade, whilst affording some improvement on a couple of affected keyboards, is not yet a cure-all?   Still, am glad to hear that your own keyboard is now clear of the button blight. 

   Beware the previous 'false dawn' episode, when it was suggested (perhaps you yourself suggested it) to close this topic down, nothing more to be gained... etc?   

      Anyone here rushing for closure?  I hope not, because the Fat lady is yet to sing.   

     Need lots of keyboard owners to do the upgrade and perform  'button test' thing, so too early to generalise.

     Joe, with respect, but what do you mean by this:   

      "before I give my official feedback to Steve Deming at Yamaha."

         I know of your tireless efforts to share information regards this bad button issue, but on whose behalf are you officiating? 

       best regards
    Jack

[Joe H]

Not to worry Jack,

(thanks for the question)

My official feedback to Steve will be regarding my own experience I can't speak for others and will emphasize that point.  I will obviously relate the fact that a reasonable time is needed for reports back to Yamaha and also that not everyone is realizing a fix. That's why I asked Cameron about the S770. It appears that at least some of the S770s are not positively affected in an equal manner by the v1.05 update.

As I have stated above (somewhere) this is a bit baffling, but I suspect Cameron is correct (as others are) it's a hardware problem being mitigated by a firmware fix, and as he stated above, some boards have a greater (button) problem than others.

Anyone here who has had direct contact with Yamaha should report their experience to Yamaha Support.  They need feedback from as many people as possible.

Cheers,
Joe H

[textbook]

Thanks for the reply.  Sounds like you and I have had just about identical experiences with our own S970s.

I notice the firmware update for the Tyros 5 also made mention of the button issue.  That's a curious bit of info!

Cheers,
Joe H

I think we can all agree it's a little early to really tell whether any improvements noticed are indeed the effect of this firmware or just wishful thinking on our part as that's what we want to believe.  IOW the old placebo effect...lol  As it may simply be the act of re-installing the firmware that's giving a positive spin to it.   Re. The T5  I noticed that too Joe...so yes very strange, they also had the wrong date for those T5 firmwares, as they put 16/5/2016. instead of March.
Having a suspicious nature,  on downloading the update I even checked to ensure it was not a re-packaged 1.04.. but the difference in file size and checksums on each file does suggest something's changed. 

In conclusion, after adding a couple more registration banks this morning to give it a final test,  it did not exit once, and my friend Alans 770 which I knew would be the real test has seen significant improvement.

So, if the improvement I've seen is not down to this firmware, (which for the more sceptical is certainly possible).... then I look forward to receiving more placebo firmwares...lol.....keep em coming. 

Best wishes...Cameron

[Joe H]

Cameron,

"Oh ye of little faith"  LOL.  It's not your imagination.  I'm waiting to hear from my brother who has an S970 and who has had the same degree of erratic button behavior as you and I have had. 

What "appears" to be the case is that the v1.05 update has a positive affect. For those with a minor button problem it pretty much goes away, and for those with a severe button problem... they are seeing the button problem reduced.

It's still a mystery to me. I'll give it a couple more days of testing before I get back to Steve Deming. But I can only share with him my own experience and what I'm reading here from others.  If people like your friend don't report their findings, Yamaha can't do anything.  Taking a keyboard back to the dealer and getting a refund doesn't help either.  Yamaha needs feedback.   Since you are a programmer and I am a beta tester, we understand these things.

For those who choose to bash Yamaha... they will never get positive results.  Good software / firmware is never developed and tested via human emotions... it's strictly a "logical" process.         

Stay tuned!



Joe H

[Chronos1976]

Hi everyone!

I hope all is well in PSRTutorial land. I've been away for a while so here's my 6 pennies worth:

1. Don't forget you can run the tests as per my opening post to the thread. The videos should still be up. By running the same test on different firmware versions you will confirm if 1.05 has solved the issue for you because the screen won't exit. It doesn't matter that it is the voice screen in I use in my tests, it is just an easy way to see the fault occurring. The fault will affect all screens.

2. There appears to be two issues here:
i.) Functioning keyboards that have a larger than should be tolerance in their button movement. This means Eileen can get a perfectly functioning keyboard because the tolerance of movement in her keyboard is minimal, but Yamaha also accept a wider tolerance in the button movement that allows the double press fault due to button roll on the contact.

ii.) There are keyboards that have faulty logic boards that cause the same issue.

Keyboards fixed by the 1.05 firmware update could safely be in category i.) while the remaining keyboards would be good candidates for category ii.) which need Yamaha servicing. Any else follow my thinking here?

3. If v1.05 is supposed to fix this issue, then I think Yamaha need more detail at this point on the frequency of the double clicks if they still occur. Count the number of key presses before a fail (e.g, 1 in 30, 1 in 40 etc) for ten tests and also the button that failed. My second keyboard had a faulty circuit board where only the [H] and [J] keys were affected. Please feedback this back to Yamaha.

4. v1.05 appears to have fixed my keyboard. At least, I gave up after 200 key presses.

Kind regards,

Paul.

[jwyvern]

I notice the firmware update for the Tyros 5 also made mention of the button issue.  That's a curious bit of info!

Cheers,
Joe H

The Ty5 firmware update mentions buttons, but not "the" button issue as per this thread

Here's a copy:
"Fixed a problem in which updating of the display and button response would slow down when many Expansion Voices were installed in the instrument."

John

[Joe H]

Hey John,

Here is ther Release Notes for the PSR firmare update:

"[V1.04 to V1.05]
- Fixed a problem in which updating of the display and button response would slow down when many Expansion Voices were installed in the instrument".

Joe H

[Joe H]

Chronos1976 wrote:

"My second keyboard had a faulty circuit board where only the [H] and [J] keys were affected. Please feedback this back to Yamaha".

How do you know this and what is the part # for the board that was replaced?  If you want us to "report" how about you doing the same here so we have more knowledge to offer Yamaha.

Regards,
Joe H

[Chronos1976]

Chronos1976 wrote:

"My second keyboard had a faulty circuit board where only the [H] and [J] keys were affected. Please feedback this back to Yamaha".

How do you know this and what is the part # for the board that was replaced?  If you want us to "report" how about you doing the same here so we have more knowledge to offer Yamaha.

Regards,
Joe H

Hi Joe,

Yamaha Service Department UK told me the circuit board for the buttons was faulty in the lower right side of the display. However, as the keyboard was new the entire machine was replaced and so there was no mention of part numbers, batch numbers or any other information that I would have already shared. I'm just as keen to get this issue resolved as you but feel the tone of your comment is unhelpful.

Kind regards,

Paul.

[jwyvern]

Hey John,

Here is ther Release Notes for the PSR firmare update:

"[V1.04 to V1.05]
- Fixed a problem in which updating of the display and button response would slow down when many Expansion Voices were installed in the instrument".

Joe H

Hi Joe,
OK, similar to wording used in the Ty5 description. There seems to be a possible issue related to  expansion voices affecting both keyboards which they have now addressed. I can see why it caught your attention.

John 

[Joe H]

John,

It's not just similar wording... it's identical wording.  My comment was that I find it curious.

Joe H

[textbook]

Which of course is why I quickly asked Robert from Yamaha if he could clarify what buttons he was referring in the discription in his first post when he announced the update.

And I quote his reply.
---------------------------------
Thanks Textbook,

Yes, I meant primarily the A-E/F-J buttons. And we hope to see and hear reported improvements concerning unintended exits to the main screen, when using them.

Best regards,
Robert R
Yamaha U.S.A.
----------------------------------------------

As you can see Robert clearly states in the quote above and in the link below it was the the A-E/F-J button issue they were referring.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,33508.msg250372.html#msg250372

I have no reason whatsoever to doubt Roberts integrity as his statement is there for all to see, and indeed I for one appreciate and thank him for clarifying that 1.05 does have firmware changes to help alleviate the A-E/F-J button issue and the fact that improvements are being seen after installing 1.05 supports his comments. 
I agree however they could initially have been much more specific, and also the fact the T5 update has the same original description too does make one wonder, or as Joe stated curious.   

Cameron

[szwarc]

I am still waiting form my PSR-s970.
When he come back to me i will check firmware 1.05.

[textbook]

I am still waiting form my PSR-s970.
When he come back to me i will check firmware 1.05.

I hope it turns out to be a good one when you do get it,  after the issues you have had..   fingers xxx...hopefully it won't be much longer, and you can get back to playing it again. 

Cameron

[Rrgramps]

Szwarc, hope your new PSR-970 is working properly; sure would like to know.

March 21 was the last post, and no one has been back since to complain.  It looks like the firmware update took hold.

[Joe H]

TrentN,

I posted elsewhere, but I should have posted here too.  The v1.05 firmware up date fixed my S970 button problem and also brother's S970 button problem too.



Joe H

[Tanas]

Yes, it is the truth. The problem with buttons has left with new firmware updating 1.05 Probably there was a program mistake.

[szwarc]

I am still waiting for may psr-s970

[JohnH]

I purchased my 970 in Sept----week ago did the latest update--1.05---everything works perfect !!!  THANKS to all you guys that brought out the problem---- THANKS YAMAHA !! for the fix------JohnH

[textbook]

I am still waiting for may psr-s970

Sorry to hear,  you still have not received your S970 back yet,   it does seem to be taking an awful long time.
It might be worth posting a message to Robert, at Yamaha Support in this thread,  maybe he can find out why it's taking so long.

http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,33778.msg252427.html#msg25242

Cameron

[Joe H]

I am still waiting form my PSR-s970.  When he come back to me i will check firmware 1.05.

Yes I agree it has taken way too long.  You have had a bad experience.        Maybe Yamaha should give you a new keyboard and keep that one you returned.

Joe H

[szwarc]

I think that Yamaha (in Poland) have his customers in ass )
I send mail to shop, service, central yamaha Poland, yamaha music Europe, president Yamaha and they done nothing.
Service says that they are waiting for new case for my instrument, maybe they will do my instrument in next week (MAYBE).
I am still waiting (from 10.02.2016) - 2 months

When my instrument comes back i will sell it imediatelly and i will by KORG PA3X.

I dont wont YAMAHA never again.

[DonM]

I think that Yamaha (in Poland) have his customers in ass )
I send mail to shop, service, central yamaha Poland, yamaha music Europe, president Yamaha and they done nothing.
Service says that they are waiting for new case for my instrument, maybe they will do my instrument in next week (MAYBE).
I am still waiting (from 10.02.2016) - 2 months

When my instrument comes back i will sell it imediatelly and i will by KORG PA3X.

I dont wont YAMAHA never again.

The joystick on my PA3X broke shortly after I bought it.  Korg took care of it, but it took two months to get the part!!  So it's not just a Yamaha thing.  Thanks to the touch strip, I was able to use the 3x until the part came in.
LOVE my PA4X though.   

Overall I would save that Korg customer support is better than Yamaha.  They monitor the forum and react quickly to valid compaints and even suggestions.  However Yamaha SERVICE is far quicker and easier to access.  Of course I'm speaking of the United States.  Can't speak for other countries or areas.

[szwarc]

In Poland it is not too good.
I think that the instruments now are very week.
Everything through the race behind the new technology.
Companies are taking part in a race and are selling new not checked instruments with defects.
The customer isn't taking into account.
I had a PSR-9000 - this instrument was very good and strong.
I'm really sorry, that I sold it and I bought PSR-S 970.
PSR-9000 had far more better loudspeakers, strong casing, comfortable arranging buttons.
Psr-s 970 very much disappointed me and company so Yamaha failed therefore never again I will buy the instrument from the stable yamaha.

[EileenL]

The 9000 was the flagship in its day and was good but very very heavy. The 970 has more up to date technology  and is much lighter. I find sound wise it is very good.

[Joe H]

szwarc,

I suspect that when you get your S970 back everything will be good.  Yes you have had a bad experience, but I think once you see everything is working correctly, you may find you like the keyboard after all.   It's really a very nice instrument!

Cheers,
Joe H

[szwarc]

I dont think so.
Yes PSR 9000 was very heavy but this instrument had a very strong loudspeakers.
Loudspeakers in PSR-S970 - they are probably taken out of the toy for children.
It was in order to better if they weren't at all.

Yes i heve very bad experience.

How I will only get the instrument at once I am putting him up for sale.

[Happy Jack]

I dont think so.
Yes PSR 9000 was very heavy but this instrument had a very strong loudspeakers.
Loudspeakers in PSR-S970 - they are probably taken out of the toy for children.
It was in order to better if they weren't at all.

Yes i heve very bad experience.

How I will only get the instrument at once I am putting him up for sale.

    Hi there, szwarc

    Yes, the PSR-9000 has got a 56-watt amplifier with built-in speakers enclosed in  wood / particle board cabinets.   What other arranger keyboard could compete with that BIG PSR-9000 sound!   And silly me, for selling my fully-upgraded PSR-9000. 

   To Big Betty (my departed PRS-9000), wherever you are, I hope your new owners are treating you kindly and using the dust cover.  Hope they appreciate your floppy disk emulator, your fully upgraded RAM, your fresh internal batteries, your hard disk. 

     szwarc, if loudness of integral speakers is now paramount to you,  perhaps you might check out the new Casio arranger keyboard - 40 watts output?   (see the Musikmesse exhibition 2016). 

   When your repaired PSR-S970 keyboard is returned to you, would you mind please checking to see if the A-J buttons are now fully working as they should? If so, perhaps you might give it another chance.  Otherwise, good luck with whatever path you choose. 

   best regards,
  Jack 

[szwarc]

In PSR-9000 I had a compact flash card reader installed not hard disk. The floppy disk drive worked perfectly but I replaced it with the USB reader. everything acted perfectly.
RAM Was full.
I bought PSR-S 970 because I thought that Yamaha had such instruments qualitatively super as PSR-9000 - unfortunately very much I made a mistake.

Casio is instruments for children.

How I will only get PSR-S 970 I will inspect buttons A-J and I will write on the forum.