MIDI to initiate new song and its registration bank

[ClosedSessioner]

Eight years ago I had my PSR-S950 MIDIed up to my iPad. I used SongBook+ to display my PDF music. I cannot remember whether I chose the song to play on the PSR, which triggered the appearance of the correct PDF on the iPad (per Fred's YouTube of some years ago) or whether the choice of the PDF triggered the PSR to set up the song with its associated registration bank. I have just taken the PSR out of its 8 year resting place and set it up again. It is working fine, when I use the instrument itself to set everything up. But I cannot for the life of me get the PSR and the iPad to cooperate as before.

The MSB, LSB and program change numbers are still shown in relation to the same songs in both Songbook+ and on the PSR (the latter viewable through the 1-16 tab in Song Creator), and both the Receive and Transmit monitors show that a MIDI signal of some sort is moving between the two devices. But the signal (which is presumably the MSB, LSB, PC info) triggers no response in either device.

I have also tried using MobileSheets on a Windows laptop in place of Songbook+ on the iPad. Again, the MIDI monitors show signals are being sent and received but they are producing no discernible effect. The PSR set up is considerably more complex than the settings for Songbook and MobileSheet programs, so I suspect I have missed or inadvertently changed something on the PSR side which is causing the problem.

Anyone point me in the right direction, please?

Ideally, I want to use MobileSheets as my means of choosing and displaying the sheet music, with that choice being communicated by MIDI to the PSR which then sets up the same song and its associated registration bank ready to play.

[overover]

Welcome to the PSR Tutorial Forum, @ClosedSessioner!

Unfortunately, the PSR-S950 does not offer the option of switching registrations from an external MIDI device. The only option in conjunction with Songbook+ (SB+) or MobileSheets (MS) is (as you have probably done before) to call up the relevant text or sheet music (e.g. PDF) in SB+ / MS when selecting registrations on the S950.

Since older models (e.g. PSR-S and Tyros models) do not send usable MIDI commands by default when calling up registrations (in contrast to PSR-SX and Genos models), you have to work with so-called "dummy MIDI files" on the S950. In each individual registration, i.e. per registration button, a dummy MIDI file must be linked, which is then loaded when the registration is called up and simultaneously sends the desired MIDI commands (normally Bank Select MSB (= CC 0), Bank Select LSB (= CC 32) and Program Change (PC or PRG).

As in your case, as you mentioned, MSB/LSB/PC are displayed when you call up registrations on the S950, these dummy MIDI files are already linked (memorized) to your registrations and are loaded correctly, i.e. they are also located in the correct storage location (presumably in a specific folder on the USB stick used). Such dummy MIDI files are usually named with the MSB/LSB/PC numbers so that they are displayed in the Main display under "Song" when the dummy file in question has been loaded by the registration.

So that these MIDI commands can be sent to the external MIDI device (e.g. iPad) that is connected to the USB-to-Host terminal or the DIN MIDI Out terminal of the S950, a custom MIDI template must be used on the keyboard. I recommend the preset MIDI template "All Parts" as a basis. Under "Transmit", the part "SONG 1" must be set for "Port 1 / Channel 1". Then press "EXIT", switch to the "USER" tab and save it as a User MIDI template with a meaningful name.

Such a user MIDI template should actually already exist on your S950. Please make sure that it is actually activated.

In the MIDI settings of SB+ / MS, the MIDI IN must of course be switched on, and Channel 1 (on which the MSB/LSB/PC commands of the dummy MIDI file are sent) must be activated here.

And finally, every "song" in SB+ / MS must be set so that it reacts to the MSB/LSB/PC combination that is sent by the dummy MIDI file when the relevant registration is called up on the S950.

Based on your description, I suspect that "only" a "wrong" MIDI template is activated and everything else is still OK. Please check the MIDI template first.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[ClosedSessioner]

Second go at replying - the forum decided to disappear just as I finished writing a four paragraph response...

First, thank you for the prompt and helpful reply. Your insight into the way the S950 works (and doesn't!) with MIDI was interesting. At least I know now that some of what I was trying to achieve was not possible within the limitations of the S950 architecture. I guess 8 years ago I must have just set up the activation of the sheet music in response to a registration. That would explain why I have a MIDI template with the same name as Fred's, OpenTextSetup.

In the meantime, I have now taken the MIDI interface out of the equation and connected instead through the USB to Host. And I have substituted MobileSheets on a Windows tablet for SongBook+ on an iPad, largely because aging eyes prefer a bigger screen. All is now working, but with one possible peculiarity in the set up. Though MS allows the insertion of MSB, LSB, and PC numbers (though as a Patch rather than a Program Change), this does not lead to any sheet music being displayed. What does is if I set the MS MIDI page for the song to listening mode and activate the registration for the song on the S950. A load of System Exclusive messages are displayed on the MS MIDI monitor, but amongst them is a single Program Change message. If I tick the box alongside it and exit and save the MIDI page, MS associates the message with the song sheet, which from then on will display when the registration for that song is activated on the S950.

I only have 880 songs left to apply this rigmarole to...

Once again, thanks for your elucidation. If you have any further comment on the whys and wherefores of the procedure I have set out above (and particularly any way of shortening the process of associating MIDI message with song sheet!) I would of course be interested.

[ClosedSessioner]

Ah, another snag. Because MS picks up only one number (ie no MSB or LSB coordinates) as a program change, I am limited to identifying 127 songs. Currently, it reads 100/2/34 and, say, 52/5/34 as the same songsheet though each set of three numbers actually identifies a different song. Anyone versed in MobileSheets know how to get round this?  Is there something among the string of System Exclusive messages I need to add to the MS song file?

Meanwhile, I'll dive into the MS manual in case I can find any clue there.

[ClosedSessioner]

Sorry folks, this thread seems to have turned into a discourse with myself.

But I am setting down here what I have discovered in case it is of use to anyone else seeking to use a PSR-S arranger with MobileSheets.

I find in looking more carefully through the messages that the MS MIDI-listening-function lists, that they are not, as I originally thought, all Sy*** apart from the Program Change. In fact, just above the Program Change entry are two Control Change entries which provide the missing LSB and MSB numbers. Ticking the boxes alongside these, as well as the box beside the Program Change, and then clicking on the plus sign associates all three as a batch file with the song sheet in MS. Once that is done, choosing the registration on the arranger brings up the associated sheet music in MS.

Hurrah!     

[ClosedSessioner]

Chris
I'm still wrestling. The batch thing I described above worked as I was setting the songs up, but not when I subsequently chose a song to play. MS responded to the Program Change number alone, and pulled up an earlier song on the alphabetic list (ie identified by 100/2/PCnumber). And this morning the MS MIDI monitor is no longer showing the Control Change lines I mention above, solely Sys Ex messages and a one Program Change line. I'll run MidiView to see whether this is MS filtering them out, or the S950 not sending them.

However, responding to your earlier warning that I need to have the right MIDI template activated on the S950, how do I know that any of them is activated and if so which? Is it just automatically the last one highlighted when I exit the MIDI screen?


PS. I was a bit mystified by the asterisks in my use of the usual abbreviation for System Exclusive messages, until I realised that the forum's 'spare our blushes' algorithms are Victorian in their sensitivity...! Good job I live in Cornwall and not Es***!

[overover]

... However, responding to your earlier warning that I need to have the right MIDI template activated on the S950, how do I know that any of them is activated and if so which? Is it just automatically the last one highlighted when I exit the MIDI screen? ...

Hi ClosedSessioner,

Please make sure the desired template is highlighted in the MIDI display, then press the EXIT button to close the MIDI display. This will ensure that this MIDI template is automatically loaded every time you restart.


P.S.
I am aware of the problem that the common abbreviation "Sys Ex" (without a space in between) is "decorated" with asterisks here in the new forum. The Admin should definitely fix this, because it is really quite annoying.


Best regards,
Chris

[ClosedSessioner]

Chris

Thanks for that.

[ClosedSessioner]

A further progress report, and another request for guidance.

I am not sure how, but I have now found a reliable method of getting MobileSheets to recognise MSB, LSB,  and PC data sent by the S950 so as to display the appropriate songsheet. The method is to bring up a song by hand on the MS screen, go to Edit, put MS into MIDI listening mode, press the button on the S950 alongside the same song title, and read off the CC0 CC32 and PC numbers received on Channel 1. The MS plus sign is then clicked, bringing up a screen in which the numbers can be entered and thus associated with the song sheet in MS. From then on, pressing the button on the S950 alongside the song title displays that sheet on the laptop running MS. 

But this depends on the S950 having the data available to send, and I have forgotten how I originally was able to input specific MSB, LSB and PC numbers to associate with a particular song sheet. (That data is now sitting on a USB stick plugged into the back of the S950.)

Can anybody remind me how to input this data for new songs?  - I can't find anything in the S950 manuals. 

[overover]

... But this depends on the S950 having the data available to send, and I have forgotten how I originally was able to input specific MSB, LSB and PC numbers to associate with a particular song sheet. (That data is now sitting on a USB stick plugged into the back of the S950.)

Can anybody remind me how to input this data for new songs?  - I can't find anything in the S950 manuals.

Hi @ClosedSessioner,

As I mentioned above, Registrations on older models (i.e. pre-PSR-SX and pre-Genos) do not send unique MIDI commands that can be used to switch in apps like Songbook+ or MobileSheets. Therefore, with PSR-S and Tyros models you have to work with the dummy MIDI files mentioned.

Each of these dummy MIDI files may only be used once, i.e. for a specific registration bank (a specific song title). Normally the dummy files are named by the MIDI commands they contain, e.g. "01_000-001-002.mid" for a file that contains the commands "MSB (CC 0) = 0", "LSB (CC 32) = 1" and " Program Change = 2" on Channel 1.

Suitable dummy MIDI files can be downloaded free of charge from the manufacturer of Songbook+, for example. There is probably a folder on your USB stick in which the dummy MIDI files are stored.

By the way, it is advisable to document in a list which dummy file you used for which registration bank (song title) so that you don't accidentally use a file multiple times.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[AndyT]

Hi,
I used the above approach with a Tyros 5 and it worked very well.
You mentioned - "I am not sure how, but I have now found a reliable method of getting MobileSheets to recognise MSB, LSB,  and PC data sent by the S950 so as to display the appropriate songsheet."

I had the same issue and I would just go to the end of the thread at https://www.zubersoft.com/mobilesheets/forum/thread-11916-page-2.html
The issue has now been fixed on Windows and I suspect that you have the latest build. It has always worked on Android which is what I use now as there is a rendering variance for smart button positioning between windows and Android. 

[ClosedSessioner]

Andy - thanks.

Chris - I hadn't properly taken on board the totally 'dummy' nature of the MIDI commands to which you drew my attention before, and therefore that they had to be generated externally. I suppose I allocated the 800 or so which already are associated with songs, through Songbook+. I'll investigate that route further in respect of new songsheets.