HDD PROBLEM TYROS 2

[Fran MB]

Hello good morning.

I have tried to install a hard drive in my Tyros 2.

To do this I have followed the instructions in the manual, and even those in the PSR Tutorial.

I have tried installing two hard drives that meet the characteristics that Yamaha publishes in the manual.

One of them is even within the list of compatible models published by Yamaha. The two disks have been checked by a computer scientist, and both of them are working correctly.

I installed one of them without any format or volume or partition, as if it came from the factory.

The other, already prepared for FAT32, which I believe is the system used by the Tyros 2.

In neither case does it recognize the hard drive when accessing it through the rhythms or sounds screen, where all the available disk drives are shown.

It also does not recognize them by entering "hard drive mode", that is, turning on the keyboard while holding down the "Music Finder" key.

I don't know what the problem could be, or if it's worth it to keep buying new hard drives until one of them works.

I don't know if anyone has had a similar problem or if there is anything else that can be tried.

The hard drives are firmly connected via the PATA connection and when I boot up or shut down the Tyros, the mechanical sound of the HDD spinning internally is heard.

Thank you so much.

Greetings.

[ChrisH]

Hi Fran

It's an old keyboard so are you sure you are using an ATA 40 pin connector on it.  I found this comprehensive page that might help (I have a Tyros 4 so not very clued up on the previous models)

https://www.max.grenkowitz.net/?topic=228 

Chris

[Fran MB]

Hello Chris,

Yes, the connections are made correctly. I had also consulted the tutorial in the link.

Thank you so much.

Greetings

[Fred Smith]

Doesn't sound like it's the drive that's the problem, so it must be the connection. You need to get your computer scientist to check the cables.

Cheers,
Fred

[Fran MB]

Thanks for your response Fred. Although the connection between the HDD and the Tyros is not through cables, but through a 41-pin PATA/ATA connection.

Greetings!

[Fred Smith]

Thanks for your response Fred. Although the connection between the HDD and the Tyros is not through cables, but through a 41-pin PATA/ATA connection.

It's been so long since I had a T2, it's hard for me to remember the exact setup. I actually had 2 T2s, one in each house, and would transport the HDD from place to place. All I remember was unscrewing about four screws, and screwing them back in. Never had a problem with the HDD being recognized.

Sorry I can't be of further help,
Fred

[Fran MB]

Thanks again.

Indeed, as you say, you have to unscrew four screws on a cover, etc.

In some other forum I have read that there are other people who have also had a similar problem, although there is no indication if they solved it, or how they did it.

Greetings!

[ChrisH]

Hi Fran

What size is your drive ... Tyros 2 is fussy it seems with drives that are too large ...the user that wrote the article was only using a 10GB drive..but he did say something about not exceeding 137gb Yamaha over all are fussy with electronics ..when I still had an S650 it refused to read a 32gb USB but was happy with a 16gb USB.

Look at this page too  https://www.max.grenkowitz.net/?topic=631

Chris

[overover]

Hi Fran,

Please first check if the hard disk is shown in the Device List in the [FUNCTION] > UTILITY > MEDIA display. If the HDD is recognized correctly, there should be the item "HD1".

Select the "HD1" item in the list and then press FORMAT. This is the recommended way to format the hard disk.

This will also automatically create the hidden folder "HDR.ROOT" on the hard disk (which is required for the internal Hard Disk Recording function).



After the hard disk has been formatted as described, the additional tab "HD1" should be displayed in the file selection displays (e.g. in the STYLE selection display).

If no "HD1" entry appears in the Device List, the hard disk used may not be compatible with the Tyros2 (e.g. too large storage capacity), or there may be a problem with the internal connection or the internal hard disk controller.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

[Fran MB]

What size is your drive ...

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your answer.

It's only "40" GB, so it's compatible with Tyros 2.

Greetings!

[Fran MB]

Hi Fran,

Please first check if the hard disk is shown in the Device List in the [FUNCTION] > UTILITY > MEDIA display. If the HDD is recognized correctly, there should be the item "HD1".

Select the "HD1" item in the list and then press FORMAT. This is the recommended way to format the hard disk.

This will also automatically create the hidden folder "HDR.ROOT" on the hard disk (which is required for the internal Hard Disk Recording function).



After the hard disk has been formatted as described, the additional tab "HD1" should be displayed in the file selection displays (e.g. in the STYLE selection display).

If no "HD1" entry appears in the Device List, the hard disk used may not be compatible with the Tyros2 (e.g. too large storage capacity), or there may be a problem with the internal connection or the internal hard disk controller.


Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

Hello Chris,

Thank you very much for your detailed response and for the explanation with photos.

Although I didn't mention it, I had already done that test and it was also negative.

Regarding compatibility, as I had previously read that there were users with the same problem, I looked for and purchased a hard drive model from those that appear on the list of compatible devices published by Yamaha at the time. Therefore, the disc I have meets the characteristics specified by Yamaha, in terms of capacity, connection size, etc.

Perhaps the problem, as you say, may be in the connection inside or in the internal disck controller of the Tyros. Although on the other hand, from the appearance of the unmarked screws, it seems that no hard drive has ever been installed or that connection previously manipulated.


Thanks again and Greetings!

[ChrisH]

Hi Fran

Is the drive listed on the last link I sent you ..if not it probably won't work ..Yamaha electronics are super fussy! I assume it's also a notebook drive not a standard hard drive  I see the Samsung 40GB drives MP0402H are available on eBay and Yamaha say they are compatible

Chris

[Fran MB]

Hi Fran

Is the drive listed on the last link I sent you ..if not it probably won't work ..Yamaha electronics are super fussy! I assume it's also a notebook drive not a standard hard drive  I see the Samsung 40GB drives MP0402H are available on eBay and Yamaha say they are compatible

Chris

Hello again Chris,

I had previously consulted that list, which is an extension of the one that Yamaha had published.

My hard drive appears in both lists.

Thanks again for your interest.

Greetings!

[Amwilburn]

There is an additional criteria (that Yamaha themselves didn't know about until I informed them); check the bottom of the hard drive, there should be mA rating. It turns out that the T2 could only handle up to 700ma (I found this out empirically, as we had a ton of customers purchase hard drives for their T2's, and there is *no* rating on the box; it's not until you open the box that there's a little mA rating for current draw underneath... even for the same exact model, current draw can vary individually.

So after looking at a bunch of successful and unsuccessful hd installs (customers usually asked me to install it) I noticed the mA ratings, and any HD that was 750ma or over wouldn't read in the T2.

Incidentally some of the larger USB sticks also have larger current draws; my current Lexar 256GB has too much for my CVP309 or the T2 at the store to be able to read, but my old Sandisk 256gb *can* be read by both, which means it has a lower current draw. And yes in case anyone is wondering how the heck a Fat16 CVP309 can read a 256gb stick, I'd updated it to FAt32.

Mark

[ChrisH]

Hi Mark

I didn't think about that cos my old S650 would never read a 32gb USB but was happy with a 16GB so it is very logical that a heavy current draw on a hard disk could quite easily cause the issue! Just for interest what USB drives work well in the Tyros 2 ?  I don't even use my HDD in the Tyros 4 (all it seems to have in it is a bunch of different to the standard presets but named the same and intros sound different) I find it easier to just use 16GB usb drives for styles and load them from there. When I also had my SX900 I only used playlists on a USB. Maybe Bob can simply use USB's instead of a hard disk??

Chris

[Amwilburn]

Yup, you could simply use a USB stick. Really anything that's not too high a current draw (not listed on the USB packaging, I know); but generally that means anything 32gb and under will work just fine; Sandisk's typically have lower current draw, so you could safely go up to a 128gb if Sandisc (and frankly even 256gb, but that's pushing it... it may or may not work because each individual hard drive, usb pen drive.... even within the same model, the current draw varies.

Mark

[Fran MB]

There is an additional criteria (that Yamaha themselves didn't know about until I informed them); check the bottom of the hard drive, there should be mA rating. It turns out that the T2 could only handle up to 700ma (I found this out empirically, as we had a ton of customers purchase hard drives for their T2's, and there is *no* rating on the box; it's not until you open the box that there's a little mA rating for current draw underneath... even for the same exact model, current draw can vary individually.

So after looking at a bunch of successful and unsuccessful hd installs (customers usually asked me to install it) I noticed the mA ratings, and any HD that was 750ma or over wouldn't read in the T2.

Incidentally some of the larger USB sticks also have larger current draws; my current Lexar 256GB has too much for my CVP309 or the T2 at the store to be able to read, but my old Sandisk 256gb *can* be read by both, which means it has a lower current draw. And yes in case anyone is wondering how the heck a Fat16 CVP309 can read a 256gb stick, I'd updated it to FAt32.

Mark

Hi Mark,
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge based on your own experience that will surely be very useful to many more users.

It's interesting what you're saying, and surprising that Yamaha wasn't aware of it.

It is also interesting to know that you saw for yourself how many hard drive installations were failed (at least it's a common thing).
Actually, as I had already read some cases of users who did not manage to install the hard drive, I was not very optimistic.

On the other hand, on my hard drive, a FUJITSU MHT2040AT (included in Yamaha's list as a compatible device), it says: "RATING +5V --- 0.55A."
I suppose that data was what you were referring to. I understand that it would be 550 mA, a value lower than 700 mA.
Maybe the hard drive has other problems.

From my ignorance, it has occurred to me that maybe it was a matter of "Master/Slave/Jumper/Cable Sel" configuration. And I say from my ignorance because I will be saying something stupid, since I don't remember if to make those configurations, they were made in the BIOS of a PC, or from the HDD itself. I insist, what I have said must be quite absurd.

On the other hand, on my Tyros 2 I use two USB sticks, only 2GB (SanDisk) and 32GB (unknow). The keyboard reads both, but the 2GB one is fast when it comes to reading data.

My intention of installing a hard drive was because the internal memory of the Tyros is limited to about 92 styles (I don't remember the exact number), and reading from the USB is very slow for me.

I also intended to use the Tyros' recording function, which is only available on HDD.

Thanks again!

Fran.

[ChrisH]

Hi Fran

On my Tyros 4 my user drive is totally empty ..it's hardly worth putting anything in there UNLESS you have a temporary use for it before saving it elsewhere.  Mark can correct me here as I don't have a T2 but the T4 is a USB2 drive and I only use 16gb drives (probably because my older keyboards didn't read 32 gb drives)   Bear in mind that your T2 should read a small drive almost instantly and also bear in mind that 30 good quality styles with 3 intros, 3 endings and 4 variations plus CASM and Music Finder data would take up a massive 0.99mb of your USB drive so you really don't need a big drive. Also bear in mind that 30 song based styles equals around 90 minutes of playing time  Your only limit is usually too many styles on a folder on the USB  ..Dunno about the T2 but my T4 sorta gets fussy if you put more than 300 or 400 styles in one folder which makes it slow to find stuff ..even alphabetically ..to page thru 400 songs takes you as an individual time!  I normally make "gig" folders and put around 30 songs in each folder so they are quick and easy to find. 

I know you want a hard drive to record music so also head in that direction still .. used small drives are easy to find as most computer users are after huge drives not small ones .. As before the information I got was the T2 can only fit a notebook Drive so bear that in mind ..Set the drive jumpers to Master if not already done as you will only have HD1

Chris

[Amwilburn]

There is an additional criteria (that Yamaha themselves didn't know about until I informed them); check the bottom of the hard drive, there should be mA rating. It turns out that the T2 could only handle up to 700ma (I found this out empirically, as we had a ton of customers purchase hard drives for their T2's, and there is *no* rating on the box; it's not until you open the box that there's a little mA rating for current draw underneath... even for the same exact model, current draw can vary individually.

So after looking at a bunch of successful and unsuccessful hd installs (customers usually asked me to install it) I noticed the mA ratings, and any HD that was 750ma or over wouldn't read in the T2.

Incidentally some of the larger USB sticks also have larger current draws; my current Lexar 256GB has too much for my CVP309 or the T2 at the store to be able to read, but my old Sandisk 256gb *can* be read by both, which means it has a lower current draw. And yes in case anyone is wondering how the heck a Fat16 CVP309 can read a 256gb stick, I'd updated it to FAt32.

Mark

Hi Mark,
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge based on your own experience that will surely be very useful to many more users.

It's interesting what you're saying, and surprising that Yamaha wasn't aware of it.

It is also interesting to know that you saw for yourself how many hard drive installations were failed (at least it's a common thing).
Actually, as I had already read some cases of users who did not manage to install the hard drive, I was not very optimistic.

On the other hand, on my hard drive, a FUJITSU MHT2040AT (included in Yamaha's list as a compatible device), it says: "RATING +5V --- 0.55A."
I suppose that data was what you were referring to. I understand that it would be 550 mA, a value lower than 700 mA.
Maybe the hard drive has other problems.

From my ignorance, it has occurred to me that maybe it was a matter of "Master/Slave/Jumper/Cable Sel" configuration. And I say from my ignorance because I will be saying something stupid, since I don't remember if to make those configurations, they were made in the BIOS of a PC, or from the HDD itself. I insist, what I have said must be quite absurd.

On the other hand, on my Tyros 2 I use two USB sticks, only 2GB (SanDisk) and 32GB (unknow). The keyboard reads both, but the 2GB one is fast when it comes to reading data.

My intention of installing a hard drive was because the internal memory of the Tyros is limited to about 92 styles (I don't remember the exact number), and reading from the USB is very slow for me.

I also intended to use the Tyros' recording function, which is only available on HDD.

Thanks again!

Fran.

You are correct, 550ma, and that's under the 700ma so it's *not* an issue with the current draw of the hard drive itself. The only other thing i can think of, do you remember when USB sticks were all formatted to Windows ME? None of those USB sticks worked in *any* keyboard due to them coming from the factory with a partition; Most of them I told customers to format them Fat32 on Windows (you couldn't even format them on the keyboard, as the PSR's/Tyros/CVP's couldn't even read drives with a partition) and that usually worked (but not always; some sticks had made the partition non rewritable! I don't even know how that was possible)

Is there any chance your HDD came from the factory with partition? If not, I'm out of ideas... the current draw was the issue in all the previous T2 hard drive installations I did. Sorry! I'm out of ideas,

Mark

[Amwilburn]

Hi Fran

On my Tyros 4 my user drive is totally empty ..it's hardly worth putting anything in there UNLESS you have a temporary use for it before saving it elsewhere.  Mark can correct me here as I don't have a T2 but the T4 is a USB2 drive and I only use 16gb drives (probably because my older keyboards didn't read 32 gb drives)   Bear in mind that your T2 should read a small drive almost instantly and also bear in mind that 30 good quality styles with 3 intros, 3 endings and 4 variations plus CASM and Music Finder data would take up a massive 0.99mb of your USB drive so you really don't need a big drive. Also bear in mind that 30 song based styles equals around 90 minutes of playing time  Your only limit is usually too many styles on a folder on the USB  ..Dunno about the T2 but my T4 sorta gets fussy if you put more than 300 or 400 styles in one folder which makes it slow to find stuff ..even alphabetically ..to page thru 400 songs takes you as an individual time!  I normally make "gig" folders and put around 30 songs in each folder so they are quick and easy to find. 

I know you want a hard drive to record music so also head in that direction still .. used small drives are easy to find as most computer users are after huge drives not small ones .. As before the information I got was the T2 can only fit a notebook Drive so bear that in mind ..Set the drive jumpers to Master if not already done as you will only have HD1

Chris

Oh there's actually another issue; previously Yamaha arrangers used a single byte to store file directories, so if your folder contained more than 255 items, it would actually be unreadble on your instrument. You've no idea the number of people who came to me with their USB sticks giving them an error, and it turned out they hadn't put *anything* in subfolders; this was ok if they did it on a USB stick, since we could re-organize on a pC, but when someone did it on the user drive...argh. *IF* that instrument had PC mode (and not all do) then you could connect it to a PC to reogranize; but if it didn't have a PC mode? The only solution was to delete *all* their data and start from scratch

Please note that the limit changed once they used a 2 byte directory (some keyboards the limit was 500 files, some over 1000) but it was always baffling to me that they never stopped you from copying / saving into a directory that was already too full.

Since 255 was the cap when I started collecting data for Yamaha PSRs/CVPs, I make sure to *never* put more than 255 items (that includes subfolders) into any single folder. This way my USB stick still works on all Yamahas (and Korgs. Roland forces you to format on *each* instrument!

Mark

[Fran MB]

Hi Fran

On my Tyros 4 my user drive is totally empty ..it's hardly worth putting anything in there UNLESS you have a temporary use for it before saving it elsewhere.  Mark can correct me here as I don't have a T2 but the T4 is a USB2 drive and I only use 16gb drives (probably because my older keyboards didn't read 32 gb drives)   Bear in mind that your T2 should read a small drive almost instantly and also bear in mind that 30 good quality styles with 3 intros, 3 endings and 4 variations plus CASM and Music Finder data would take up a massive 0.99mb of your USB drive so you really don't need a big drive. Also bear in mind that 30 song based styles equals around 90 minutes of playing time  Your only limit is usually too many styles on a folder on the USB  ..Dunno about the T2 but my T4 sorta gets fussy if you put more than 300 or 400 styles in one folder which makes it slow to find stuff ..even alphabetically ..to page thru 400 songs takes you as an individual time!  I normally make "gig" folders and put around 30 songs in each folder so they are quick and easy to find. 

I know you want a hard drive to record music so also head in that direction still .. used small drives are easy to find as most computer users are after huge drives not small ones .. As before the information I got was the T2 can only fit a notebook Drive so bear that in mind ..Set the drive jumpers to Master if not already done as you will only have HD1

Chris

Hello Chris,

Thanks for your contribution.

Since installing a hard drive is not going to be possible at the moment, I stick with your idea of using the smallest USB memory organized in subfolders and limited to 30 styles (or less in my case) to make reading faster.

Greetings!

Fran

[Fran MB]

There is an additional criteria (that Yamaha themselves didn't know about until I informed them); check the bottom of the hard drive, there should be mA rating. It turns out that the T2 could only handle up to 700ma (I found this out empirically, as we had a ton of customers purchase hard drives for their T2's, and there is *no* rating on the box; it's not until you open the box that there's a little mA rating for current draw underneath... even for the same exact model, current draw can vary individually.

So after looking at a bunch of successful and unsuccessful hd installs (customers usually asked me to install it) I noticed the mA ratings, and any HD that was 750ma or over wouldn't read in the T2.

Incidentally some of the larger USB sticks also have larger current draws; my current Lexar 256GB has too much for my CVP309 or the T2 at the store to be able to read, but my old Sandisk 256gb *can* be read by both, which means it has a lower current draw. And yes in case anyone is wondering how the heck a Fat16 CVP309 can read a 256gb stick, I'd updated it to FAt32.

Mark

Hi Mark,
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge based on your own experience that will surely be very useful to many more users.

It's interesting what you're saying, and surprising that Yamaha wasn't aware of it.

It is also interesting to know that you saw for yourself how many hard drive installations were failed (at least it's a common thing).
Actually, as I had already read some cases of users who did not manage to install the hard drive, I was not very optimistic.

On the other hand, on my hard drive, a FUJITSU MHT2040AT (included in Yamaha's list as a compatible device), it says: "RATING +5V --- 0.55A."
I suppose that data was what you were referring to. I understand that it would be 550 mA, a value lower than 700 mA.
Maybe the hard drive has other problems.

From my ignorance, it has occurred to me that maybe it was a matter of "Master/Slave/Jumper/Cable Sel" configuration. And I say from my ignorance because I will be saying something stupid, since I don't remember if to make those configurations, they were made in the BIOS of a PC, or from the HDD itself. I insist, what I have said must be quite absurd.

On the other hand, on my Tyros 2 I use two USB sticks, only 2GB (SanDisk) and 32GB (unknow). The keyboard reads both, but the 2GB one is fast when it comes to reading data.

My intention of installing a hard drive was because the internal memory of the Tyros is limited to about 92 styles (I don't remember the exact number), and reading from the USB is very slow for me.

I also intended to use the Tyros' recording function, which is only available on HDD.

Thanks again!

Fran.

You are correct, 550ma, and that's under the 700ma so it's *not* an issue with the current draw of the hard drive itself. The only other thing i can think of, do you remember when USB sticks were all formatted to Windows ME? None of those USB sticks worked in *any* keyboard due to them coming from the factory with a partition; Most of them I told customers to format them Fat32 on Windows (you couldn't even format them on the keyboard, as the PSR's/Tyros/CVP's couldn't even read drives with a partition) and that usually worked (but not always; some sticks had made the partition non rewritable! I don't even know how that was possible)

Is there any chance your HDD came from the factory with partition? If not, I'm out of ideas... the current draw was the issue in all the previous T2 hard drive installations I did. Sorry! I'm out of ideas,

Mark

Hello Mark,

The truth is that I was not aware of what you mentioned about USB memory partitions.

In my case, I bought the hard drive used. A computer scientist checked the disk and deleted all the partitions/volumes that the disk had.

He also lent me another hard drive (with similar characteristics, but from a different brand, and 60GB) but formatted to Fat 32.

T2 did not recognize either of them.

But I just checked right now that the 60 GB one was 1000 mA, so in that case it would be normal for it not to recognize it.

Thank you, you have provided many possible causes of the problem.

It is true that my 40GB hard drive (550 mA) the first time the computer technician connected it to his PC, he recognized it immediately.

But the next time the computer technician connected it to his PC to check/delete volumes/partitions, he had to make several attempts for it to be recognized.....Then he did a test, etc., he deleted partitions and the hard drive was Ok.

Perhaps physically the HDD works correctly but has a "small" problem that a PC can "handle" but the T2 cannot (simpler operating system and more sensitive to compatibility).

Thanks.

Fran.

[Fran MB]

Hello again Mark,

I have some doubts that you maybe know the answer, from your experience installing so many hdd in T2.
This questions is for in case I get other additional hdds.

1. For T2 to detect an HDD (that meets the necessary requirements), does it have to be in all the cases/obligatorily as "factory" mode (without any partition or volume)?

2. Could T2 recognize an HDD previously formatted in Fat 32 on a PC, and after properly formatted to work on the T2 from the FUNCTION/UTILITY/MEDIA screen?

3. Suppose the case of an HDD (both factory or Fat 32) that is correct to be recognized by T2. If we access the screen in which the USER/USB drives, etc., appear when pressing STYLE or VOICE, the HDD would appear without having previously performed it with the formatting application from the FUNCTION/UTILITY/MEDIA screen?

4. Curiosity. Do you know if the list of T2-compatible HDD models that Yamaha published in those time, was after you reported them the additional criteria of problem if  > 700 mA current?

5. Do you remember if the HDD models that customers brought to install, were the ones that failed on the aforementioned list? and/or those that it did recognize were or were not? (I know this was many years ago and it's hard to remember)

Mark, excuse so many and perhaps specific questions, but your experience on this subject is very valuable to me.

As I am using translator, some issues may not be entirely understandable.

Thanks a lot.

Best regards!

[Amwilburn]

T2 (and in fact, *any* keyboard I've come across, any brand) needs to have no partition on the hard drive or USB, correct.
And yes if you format fat32 on PC it should work

Yamaha never updated the list; they just told people after that if it was over 700ma it won't work, as per my findings

Nope, can't remember which models. just remeber we just kept buying the 80gb toshiba one that was on the list

[Fran MB]

Hello Mark,

Thanks for your answers.

And I take note of Toshiba model to take it into account.

Greetings!