Idea for a new Yamaha keyboard model -- Double keyboard!

[SciNote]

I've come across this thing online...

https://www.matrixsynth.com/2007/08/casio-dm-100.html?m=1

This is an old Casio DM-100 portable keyboard that actually has 2 separate keyboards built in!  The lower one is a 4 octave manual with many of the standard sounds available around the time this instrument was introduced -- which appears to be the late 1980's.  And the top keyboard is a 2.5 octave manual that has sampling capabilities, though also appears to be able to play other sounds, as well.  Main drawback is that it's all mini-keys.  There are YouTube videos that show some of its capabilities.

Imagine Yamaha making an updated version of something like this.  Give it full-sized keys and 5 octaves, with E473-type capabilities for the lower keyboard.  And then for the upper keyboard, either have a set of a couple dozen preset polyphonic sounds with some basic sound shaping controls like tone and sustain (release), or have something like a mono-synth, with several waveforms that can be modified with envelope generators, filter controls, LFO, basic effects, and portamento, with the ability to store settings in a set of presets.

Registrations would either apply to the lower main keyboard, or they could also include all the settings of the upper keyboard, as well.

This would be amazing!  As I have been playing some gigs with my E433 and Roland Gaia 3-octave synth, I am seeing it can be a lot of equipment to carry around, when you add in the amp, speakers, cables, and custom 2-tiered stand.  Something like this would put much of that in one instrument.  When in the market for a new rig, I'd pay about $600 for it.

Of course, there could be SX-level versions, and even a super-Genos verson!  Imagine a Genos with a second synthesizer keyboard all in one unit!

Just an idea.  What do you think?

[Oldden]

I used to play and loved my Yamaha D85 organ. Three keyboards, bottom two were organ and the top one a basic, but good for the time synth. Plus not forgetting pedals. Looking at my Genos nowadays , yes it does a lot more but looks like a toy plastic  keyboard.

[Oldden]

Even older keyboard. I was given a Phillip Philicordia. It had a seperate valve oscillator for every key, and they used to wander off tune. Answer was get one of my wife's plastic knitting needles, file the end to look like a screwdriver and retune every note. Happy days.

[Graham UK]

That's not a new idea because I was playing Twin Keyboard Set for over 10 years.Started with Tyros 2 + NP30 as lower.
Richard Bower then Yamaha demonstrator gave me the initial idea when he first used the TwinsSet at the UK Keyboard festival.
Later my Tyros 2 was replaced with Tyros 5-76 + NP30.
Main benefits because the NP30 was dealing with all the Style Acc's, the now full upper keys could be split into a number of different voice zones.I found it very enjoyable to play.

[mikf]

One heavy instrument versus two lighter instruments - I think a lot of people would go for the second. Especially since it gives more choice. Obviously there was insufficient market demand for this style of keyboard or I am sure we would have seen updated versions.
Mike

[SciNote]

Of course it's not a "new" idea to use more than one keyboard.  Multi-manual electronic organs have been around for decades.  And like I said, I use an E433 and a Roland Gaia together.  I'm just talking about combining two flexible keyboards into one instrument that is easier to carry around.  It is curious that Casio did not further develop this concept, but then again, they used mini-keys, making it more like a toy than a serious instrument.

One double keyboard might be heavier than each of two single ones (though with today's technology, I bet the difference wouldn't be that great), but remember -- with two separate keyboards, there's still the more complex (and larger and heavier) stand, additional cables, and an amp and speaker system that can handle multiple stereo inputs over a wide range of frequencies.  Combine the two keyboards into one unit, add a decent powered onboard amp/speaker system, and you greatly simplify your set up.  Maybe you might want to add a small amplified subwoofer for a fuller sound that likely could not be produced from onboard speakers, but that would be about all you'd need for most small to medium sized venues.

And for Oldden, in reference to your old D85 -- I hear ya!  I had a D80, the model previous to the D85, a long time ago, and I loved using that third keyboard synth.  It wasn't really a true synth, as it had little in the way of custom sound-shaping, but it was still quite flexible with multiple presets, portamento, and even the ability to generate vibrato/tremolo effects by physically wiggling they key you're playing back and forth.  Before that, I had a more basic Wurlitzer model home organ -- I believe it was called a 375 -- and it also had a small third keyboard mono-synth -- and they actually called it a synthesizer -- the "Orbit" synthesizer, to be precise.  Still very basic, but along with about a half dozen or so instrument presets, it also had switches for sine waves of various footages that could be combined, and it had attack and sustain (technically, release) controls, as well as pitch LFO speed and depth controls.

[BogdanH]

I think that those who need or wish two keybeds already have them in whatever combination (i.e. arranger & midi or arranger & synth). Yes, cabling can be problematic, but it also has important advantage: flexibility. And because of that, even if it happens that I would need two keybeds (really?), then I would prefer to have two separate keyboards.

On the other hand, a single two-keybed keyboard definitely also has advantages. I would say it's more comfortable to play because keybeds are closer together. If we have two keyboards, then we need certain space between them, so we can access and see the panel of bottom keyboard.

And finally, it looks quite cool.. if you have money for it 


Bogdan

[soundphase]

Yamaha Electones still exist.

https://asia-latinamerica-mea.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/electone/elcu-m02/index.html

[Oldden]

There were two problems, at least for me when I used to play organs... the size and the weight of it if needed to be moved. Playing them was a totally different experience than my Genos and to my mind was more fun. OK not so many sounds, and real drawbars instead of a touchscreen. Would I go back if I could, sorry no, they were just to big for where I live now. Plus my wife would kill me..... 

[Amwilburn]

Yamaha already has the StageA

https://www.yamaha.com/en/about/experience/innovation-road/collection/detail/2122/

Mark

[John T4]

There was the yamaha D Deck back in the day.

[Del]

Yamaha StageA have a listen at this 21yr old young lady playing Star Wars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp5HpjhKHKs

[Amwilburn]

She is incredible; all of her videos are better than mine (I already liked her Star Wars, Back to the Future, etc); her keyboard skills are through the roof.

Mark

[andyg]

We should never forget that the instruments that we now call 'arrangers' were originally just called 'keyboards' or 'single keyboards' and are ultimately all descendants of the home organ. Back in the late 1970s many organ manufacturers were working on the then novel idea of keyboards. I helped to design one in 1979 but my bosses said that 'keyboards would never catch on' and it never went past the prototype! Casio and Yamaha's bosses were more clever and the rest is history! from 1980 onwards.

For sheer comfort and ease of use, nothing beats an organ. Yamaha's Stagea models are superb, and perhaps due for an update to incorporate sounds and features from Genos 2. Wersi, Bohm and Ringway are the other major players, still active but alas Yamaha won't ship outside Asia. You need to contact Tarotrade for exports to the rest of the world, something that Yamaha seem to be quite happy with.

[Oxford1035]

I have a Genos 2, NP32 lower manual and a Roland PK9 pedal board. I can have the best of both worlds. Organ when l want, or just single keyboard.

Russ

[SciNote]

Yes, I've come across the Electones before when looking at the Japanese part of the Yamaha website.  There's even this item...

https://jp.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/electone/elcu-m02/index.html#product-tabs

This appears to be just the keyboard section, with no stand or pedals.  It appears meant to be hooked to the compatible stand and pedals, but I would guess it could be operated alone, like an arranger -- not sure about that, however.  When I used Microsoft Edge to translate the specs, it seems pretty capable.  I didn't see anything about sound editing -- filter, envelope generator, etc. -- but it's got tons of effects.  But with two four-octave keyboards, it's a different design than I have in mind -- more like an organ, instead of an arranger-plus-synth.  And with a suggested retail of 462000 Yen -- which Google currently converts to about $2885 US -- it's much more than I'd want to spend -- not to mention the cost of having a third party ship it from Asia, as andyg said Yamaha won't ship these outside of Asia.  And, again, if it can even work on it's own, it would still need an amp and speakers.

Again, I realize you have much more flexibility when choosing which two keyboards to use.  As I've said, I do this myself by using an E433 and a Roland synth.  And as Yamaha has been producing portable keyboards for about 4 decades, it does not seem likely that they would now start producing such an affordable (at least less than $1000 US) double keyboard with decent arranger and small synth keyboard functions.  Still seems like it would be a useful idea for all-in-one portable/gigging use, and it would certainly stand out from the rest of the portable and arranger keyboards available.

[Divemaster]

There were two problems, at least for me when I used to play organs... the size and the weight of it if needed to be moved. Playing them was a totally different experience than my Genos and to my mind was more fun. OK not so many sounds, and real drawbars instead of a touchscreen. Would I go back if I could, sorry no, they were just to big for where I live now. Plus my wife would kill me.....

Yeah

Exactly the same feelings about home organs.
Fabulous to play, and my last one was an Orla.
But the sheer size and weight of them makes keyboards a much more attractive proposition.

I would have loved one of the big Lowerys but I think I'd have got a hernia installing it!

I have the Yamaha PSR SX 700 and my Korg Pa5x with amp system, and I'm a very happy bunny. They complement each other very well.

Keith.

[Amwilburn]

Yes, I've come across the Electones before when looking at the Japanese part of the Yamaha website.  There's even this item...

https://jp.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/electone/elcu-m02/index.html#product-tabs

That's still literally the Stagea, which is a disassembleable portable Electone organ series.

[donmac875]

Here's a link to a 2 manual setup for Genos - by Wilbraham

https://youtu.be/uN6sS4BbtWc?si=oQcOpYjLg1k6g7N4

Don

[Del]

That's the set up I have Don