Two technical questions about sampling in YEM

[gabrielschuck]

Hello everyone, how are you?
As I don't know where or whom to consult about these doubts (which are also my curiosities), I come here to the forum to see if anyone has the answer or even a solution to the case.
The situation is as follows:

I'm creating a pack with various accordion bellows voices. I'm choosing and putting in this pack registrations of some accordions, one for each voice, where the sounds of the instrument's keys change (in MIDI starting somewhere between F3 to G3), but the bass
voice is always the same for the left hand (C1 to E2/F2).
I'm creating this in SFZ format, converting it to SF2, and then importing it into YEM.

My first question: Since the bass voice is always the same for each registration, does YEM leave these samples duplicated? If so, how do I resolve this and save space?
Second question: In one of the WAV samples, I forgot to insert the loop region. Can I find the specific file in the YEM packs folder with this missing region, or will I have to import the SF2 again with this corrected?
I appreciate in advance anyone who can clarify!
Gabriel

[mikf]

These questions are pretty deep into technical detail. I wouldn't expect anyone on this forum to know these answers. In fact the questions are probably beyond most people's knowledge/interests, never mind the answers. But I might be proven wrong, because it surprises me how much some people delve into the weeds.
Mike

[gabrielschuck]

These questions are pretty deep into technical detail. I wouldn't expect anyone on this forum to know these answers. In fact the questions are probably beyond most people's knowledge/interests, never mind the answers. But I might be proven wrong, because it surprises me how much some people delve into the weeds.
Mike

Well, I'm one of them.
I've always been very curious about how things work and finding a way to overcome limitations.
Regarding more technical answers, you're right, although there are some (few) experienced people who also go beyond the limits. It's a matter of luck. I've seen well-grounded technical topics that sought to explain certain things.
Anyway, I think I'll have to rebuild the pack, dividing these accordion parts into two voices and then combining them on the keyboard with left+right. I didn't want it to be like this, but it'll have to do.

[danand]

First question: YEM handle quite good this situation with "duplicate samples".
If a sample used in more than one sounds or layers YEM hold this sample only once!
So no worry, the size of your pack will be limited. NO duplicates.

Second question: Yes it is possible to import the soundfont and then continue the editing within YEM. No reason to return to another soundfont editor in order to tweak details.
Unfortunately you can't create sample loops with YEM so... you have to create the sample loop to another software, then inside YEM just replace the old (no loop sample) with the new one (looped sample)

[BogdanH]

hello Gabriel,

...
I'm creating a pack with various accordion bellows voices. I'm choosing and putting in this pack registrations of some accordions, one for each voice, where the sounds of the instrument's keys change (in MIDI starting somewhere between F3 to G3), but the bass
voice is always the same for the left hand (C1 to E2/F2).
...

-I'm quite familiar with YEM and voice creation, but I must honestly admit that I have no idea what are you saying. The reason for that is, because you talk about voices, pack, registration and midi in the same sentence, which is kinda confusing. But maybe that's because you're working in SFZ format that I'm not familiar with.

My first question: Since the bass voice is always the same for each registration, does YEM leave these samples duplicated? If so, how do I resolve this and save space?

-that's what I meant above... I don't understand what has voice to do with registration?

Second question: In one of the WAV samples, I forgot to insert the loop region. Can I find the specific file in the YEM packs folder with this missing region, or will I have to import the SF2 again with this corrected?

Once sample is imported into YEM, you can not find any info about it's source and you can not export it as a sample (wav) file. That is, you need to replace it by importing corrected (looped) sample again.

Bogdan

[gabrielschuck]

First question: YEM handle quite good this situation with "duplicate samples".
If a sample used in more than one sounds or layers YEM hold this sample only once!
So no worry, the size of your pack will be limited. NO duplicates.

Second question: Yes it is possible to import the soundfont and then continue the editing within YEM. No reason to return to another soundfont editor in order to tweak details.
Unfortunately you can't create sample loops with YEM so... you have to create the sample loop to another software, then inside YEM just replace the old (no loop sample) with the new one (looped sample)

Hello Danand, thank you for the help!
Regarding the first question, I was really going to redo the pack, creating a
voices just for the bass and the other voices for the other accordion registers to see if the size would change. But if there are no duplicates, then I don't need to worry about it, right? The size would be the same?
About the second question... That's the problem, I'm not able to find in YEM where to make this replacement of the wav already with the loop! I create my samples in SFZ and then convert to SF2, so I've never been able to deal with this directly in YEM because this part is not very accessible for my screen reader and a bit confusing.
I tried asking my mom for help to see if she could find the sample I wanted to replace, and she couldn't either. She only told me about the voice parameters that I'm already used to adjusting.
Best regards,
Gabriel

[gabrielschuck]

Hi BogdanH, I'll try to clarify the confusion here:

SFZ is the format I use to create the samples. We can look at an SFZ file as a script where you determine which sample, which key of a certain region will trigger that sample, initial and final velocity, etc. In fact, you can do much more than that with SFZ, but it's enough to then convert it to the SF2 format, which is what YEM supports.
This is the alternative I found to insert samples into YEM for the reasons mentioned in my other post above. That's why my difficulty now lies in replacing the wave already with the loop.
Inserting the loop is not a problem; I do that with Awave Studio.

Regarding the registers, I was referring to the different sounds of a bellows accordion for the right hand that you can switch, maintaining the same bass sound for the left hand. Some accordions also have variations for the bass sound, but generally accordionists change the voices more for the right hand.
In this sense, I asked if there would be sample duplicates when creating these voices in YEM because in many of them, the bass sound is exactly the same.
Best regards,
Gabriel

[BogdanH]

hello Gabriel,
Thank you for explaining.. but as I said, I'm really not familiar with SFZ workflow -at voice creation, I always import wav samples directly into YEM.

About replacing non-looped sample with looped sample... In this case, I think you can easily find out which sample in voice you need to replace.

Select the voice in YEM and then execute menu Edit Voice and a new panel will open where you can set all kind of parameters for each sample. Now click on "gear wheel" icon on the top right side of the panel and set Audio Output according to you listening device (your speakers or headphones).

On top of the panel you can see piano keybed and corresponding samples below. If you click/press on any key (that is linked to some sample), you will be able to hear the sound of that key. In case of looped sample, you will be able to hear the sound as long you keep mouse button pressed. If you hear sound only for few seconds, then that means that the sample that belongs to that key (below keybed), is not looped. Now you know which sample you need to replace.

I hope that was somehow understandable 

Bogdan

[gabrielschuck]

Ok! I'll check with my mom again to see if she can identify that keyboard that appears at the top. I usually use my Tyros5 as a MIDI controller to play the samples directly through my interface. All of this is already set up. I know which sample is not looped; to replace it, do I need to click on the non-looped sample? Thank you for trying to help me!
Best regards,
Gabriel

[mikf]

Most of us on this forum have to go to a spiritualist to get advice from their mom.

[BogdanH]

Hahahah.. Mike, that's a good one 

[gabrielschuck]

Most of us on this forum have to go to a spiritualist to get advice from their mom.

Sorry, what did you mean by that? Is it related to my particular situation? It's just that I'm visually impaired, I need someone who can see to help operate with things that are not very accessible, like the YEM interface. That's why I mentioned "mom" here. She's the only one who lives with me and can see.

[mikf]

Sorry, the humor obviously by passed you, - most everyone is so old on this forum their mom is long gone .
Mike

[gabrielschuck]

Aaah, yes! Now I get it. 🤣🤣🤣 Thank God I still have mine, and she's the only one who still tries to help me, even though she's not that familiar with computers. That's why I also turn to the forum to try to solve things on my own with your help. This part of individually replacing the sample is one I won't be able to do alone. And believe me, I research a lot before anything. I know there are programs that can extract samples from a pack to WAV, but in my case, I would need the reverse because directly through the YEM interface, it's not accessible.

[BogdanH]

Gabriel, I admire your enthusiasm and passion. Big hug to your mom.

Bogdan

[gabrielschuck]

Gabriel, I admire your enthusiasm and passion. Big hug to your mom.

Bogdan

Thank you, Bogdan.
I asked for her help earlier, and she managed to see the virtual keyboard. But I still don't understand how to replace the sample.
I noticed that in this part you have to handle the mouse with care; a slight slip and it's already off the intended key.
I asked her to click with the mouse on the G2 key that contains the wave to be replaced, and I heard a sound that doesn't correspond to that note.
With the screen reader, I can see that there's a checkbox "wave assign" that was unchecked, could it be that?
Best regards,
Gabriel

[BogdanH]

hi Gabriel,
On the right side just above virtual keybed image, there are three icons on which you can click to zoom-in the keybed -that way it's easier to target with the mouse.

It's somehow hard to explain what and how to make corrections without sitting behind your screen, But the general idea is as follows:
The grid below the virtual keybed contains all imported samples: grey rectangles represent samples, white area means no sample covers that note range. Horizontal dimension of the rectangle shows the keybed notes range that the sample is covering and vertical dimension shows the velocity range that the sample is covering. If you move mouse over one of the rectangles, then a message appears (next to mouse cursor), which gives you numerical info about note and velocity range that the sample is covering.
If you click on one of the rectangle (which represents a sample), then the settings on the right side of the grid will be updated. Here you need to pay attention on the Original Key value of the sample (i.e. C3) -if this value is wrong, then the region that the sample is covering won't play correct notes. That is, at importing the sample, you need to know what note the sample represent.

Let's say, you click on G2 key on virtual keybed and you realize that this note is not looped. Means, all notes that the corresponding sample is covering, are not looped.
Select the rectangle below G2 key and remember the settings on the right side (Original Key, etc.). Now click on "-" (minus) button above virtual keybed and selected sample will be removed. Now click on "+" button to import looped sample (after importing you can drag the sample rectangle into right place.

Finally you make correct settings on the right side (as they were before).
Now.. that was only Wave Assign section and as you can see there are additional sections (General, Amplitude, etc.) which contain additional settings for particular sample.

Yes, it's kinda complicated.. and so I think, why don't you simply import new SF2?

Bogdan

[gabrielschuck]

Thank you, Bogdan. I think that's exactly what I'll do. Import the SF2 with the correction. This part of setting the parameters for each sample individually is another challenge that I just can't seem to overcome, only for all the samples in the pack. But still, thank you very much once again for trying to help me!
Best regards,
Gabriel