Noise

[Oymmot]

Hello.
I've had all the Tyros and now the Genos.
I have always thought that the Yamaha keyboard has a closed sound and.....now I have started to record my creations and make CDs.
What I noticed is that there is always a distortion sound and it becomes more audible when I add, for example, several string sounds to parts.
Points of view?
Help !!!!!

Edit: Topic title edited by Roger Brenizer

[EileenL]

Make sure you are not over recording things. Keep the monitor in the green. I don't have problems with my Genos2 recordings.

[Oymmot]

I'm not a beginner, there is noise in my Genos.
If you want to give me your e-mail address, I will send you a midi file where you can test in your keyboard and listen if you hear any noise.
It therefore applies to midi files, not styles, as I do not use such.

[ton37]

First try to find out WHERE the cause/source lies.  So record directly (the shortest route, Audio!) on the keyboard.  Then play it on various media (with good headphones) until you have been able to trace where the most noise is created.  You can usually hear 'some' noise.

[Oymmot]

Hello again.
As I wrote before, I didn't see any beginners. There is noise. The closest thing to hand is that I go to a music store and test a new Genos. All I can do is done. What could give me is someone else testing in their Genos. The Genoese may not be better. It is a noise that is around 4000 hz. Very weak but there.

[Oymmot]

Is there anyone who can test if I send a midi

[ton37]

Yes, now I understand what you meant. When the amplifier is turned up fully, I hear (light) noise over my speakers, but my G2 is connected to a mixer . Then too, it depends on which source causes/amplifies the noise. The speakers or are there other sources that cause the interference (electricity, sockets, computer (parts), adapters, etc.). Sometimes putting the keyboard in a completely different place (and other electic group) and listening again can sometimes help for a correct analysis? Or take it to the keyboard dealer and put it next to another Genos and then listen? You will always hear some noise, but it is difficult to define how much is/should be 'acceptable'. Jm2c
PS. sending a midi doesn't help to judge the amount of noise you noticed. We all have several hearings and sounding setups. Do you use headphones? Tried another?

[Oymmot]

I am writing again. I have a problem and would like some kind of help. No simpler thoughts about problems.
Forget what I wrote, I can go to a music store and try on a Genos. Everything is done with the highest know-how from programming to recording.

[ton37]

If no one has experienced problems (yet), so no one can help you (yet), I guess? Would you be so kind to report back your findings here on the forum? Good luck and hopefully you will find either a solution or either a confirmation that it is the way it is? 
Btw. are you talking about a G1 of G2?

[Oymmot]

It is exactly the same noise in the Tyros as in my Genos 1.
I have listened to the recording in my gaming mate's Tyros 5 and it sounds the same.
It is not a major noise, but an unclean sound that is most noticeable with several, for example, string sounds in tune on a track.
Personally, I think that the Yamaha keyboard is no better.
Tommy

[BogdanH]

hi Tommy,
When talking about these things we need to be very specific. Is it the keyboard that has noise in audio section or only certain voices contain noise?
And finally, is it noise or distortion? I ask, because noise doesn't have specific (4000Hz) frequency: it covers wide frequency range (that's why it's called noise).

Anyway, it's almost impossible that someone can help you or even give an opinion, without exactly knowing on what to pay attention and under what circumstances. That is, you would need to clearly demonstrate your finding with audio examples.

Just my opinion,
Bogdan

[Oymmot]

I have offered to send a file but no one has offered so we forget the whole thing.

[overover]

I have offered to send a file but no one has offered so we forget the whole thing.

Hi Tommy,

I think it would be best if you uploaded this audio file to a file hosting service (e.g. Box.com or Dropbox) and then posted the download link publicly here.


Best regards,
Chris

[Lee Batchelor]

Tommy, we're all here to help you find out what's going on with your keyboard . There are some piano notes on the Genos that distort slightly. It is a flaw in the sample itself. My Genos is packed for a show, otherwise I'd tell you which one(s) it is.

Feel free to post the sound and tell us everything about your setup. From my experience, a strange noise coming from a Yamaha keyboard is usually caused by something else in the signal chain.

[Rick D.]

Oymmot,

I would try recording it again, and use a different  string voice if possible to eliminate that. Then as suggested before, try playing it thru headphones or external speakers eliminating the Genos speakers. As Chris has suggested load the recording up to a cloud service and post the link here so we can hear exactly what is going on.

Rick D.

[Oymmot]

Hi Bogdan.
That is exactly the distortion you see on YouTube. I feel that there are many sounds with vibrato.
Tommy

[Oymmot]

Hi Bogdan.
You've made a post on YouTube about saxophone sound distortion.
That's exactly the problem I mean but it's on more sounds than saxophone and it seems to have to do with vibrato.
You write that others on the forum do not hear what you describe, but you are quite right.
I will test the Genos 2 to get better visibility.
Tommy

[BogdanH]

hi Tommy,
Thank you for clarification! -now we know what you mean 
Yes, I posted that in video for saxophone sound and Lee (above) found out that similar exist on some piano voices -and probably on some other voices as well.
I know that such distortion (unpleasant sound) can be very subtle, but once you notice it, it's impossible not to hear it.. it becomes annoying actually.
There's no solution for that and so, as Rick D. suggested, maybe you try with some other strings combination.

Greetings,
Bogdan

[Oymmot]

I've tried all the string sounds and the noise can't get rid of it. Now there was a complete stop to our CD recordings. I also spoke to the music dealer I use when I buy instruments and he was completely confused. They have sold lots of Genos but never heard of this. My next step will be to visit someone who has Genos 2 and test. It is exactly the same on the Tyros models.
Tommy from Sweden!

[ton37]

Hi Tommy,

I think it would be best if you uploaded this audio file to a file hosting service (e.g. Box.com or Dropbox) and then posted the download link publicly here.


Best regards,
Chris

For further help I advise you  what Chris wrote, and the midi file of the song??

[mikf]

Tommy,  You seem a bit frustrated that no-one here has helped, but my feeling is that this is an issue well beyond the normal expertise on this forum.
You seem to be pretty astute and knowledgeable, and have not detected the source, so I doubt anyone here is going to be able to help further.  It might be unique to your instrument, or it might be a fault no-one else has noticed. But either way it seems to me this is a deep question for the Yamaha technical people. So my advice is to find a way to get their attention on the problem. It's almost certainly not going to get solved any other way.
Maybe it cannot be solved, maybe it's a design issue and Genos is just  not up to the top CD/studio quality you need - I don't know, and that's an issue for Yamaha.
Mike

[Oymmot]

Visit me on YoyTube
Tommy

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6Y_v5eCXFcpEkTzi_RwztrJHY_C6fXPY

[theoutlaws]

...to give us a better understanding it can help to tell us your exact signalflow. When you use a DAW and you look at the gainstaging controllers you should see where the distorsion is caused - in case you overdrive - single frequency ranges - in every DAW there are vst plugins that show you an excat frequency curve of the Genos output signal. Have you tried to lower by the Genos Master EQ the suspect frequencys?

[Oymmot]

Hello everyone!
It turns out that this is a problem that apparently exists in all Yamaha keyboards.
The SX models, the Tysos models and in Genos 1 and then I suppose it is the same in Genos 2.
The keyboard is no better!
It is also the case that all my keyboards that I have owned from Tyros 1 to now Genos 1 also have a closed sound that has to be compensated with eq. but......as this then increases the distortion, you may have to start rethinking.
The distortion is in all string sounds, almost all wind sounds and they are emphasized even more if you put more than one note on a track, multi-note harmonies.
There is no way around the problem with some eq and similar in the keyboard as it seems that it has to do with the effects that are on the sounds. Vibrato and more.
Easy way to hear is to add string sound to Right 1, take a C, add E, then G and you hear how the distortion becomes more and more.
I also spoke today with a keyboard player on the Genos 1 and he avoided or turned down the sounds that were most disturbing.
Tommy

[Lee Batchelor]

I don't doubt your word Tommy but where did you find this information? It doesn't sound like something the technical people at Yamaha would admit.
Nice playing of Before The Next Teardrop Falls. It's one of my favorite tunes from back when artists knew how to write music 🙃.

[Amwilburn]

I assume you're  talking about the impact of the bow right before the sample starts, which is noticeable on some notes (particularly noticeable on the seattle first violin or the Orchestral 1st violins, when playing hard on  a weird recording error with (both):If you tap a D right above middle C, staccato, *hard*, you'll hear what sounds like an early plate reflection baked into the sample (D, D# and E).

I think that's literally the recording of the bow hitting the string, unfortunately captured by the pickup.

It's similar to the low intensity blow on a tax; at high velocities, the recordings sound great, but at low velocities, when you're blowing on a real sax gently, a spittle sound from condensation (yes it's a real phenomenon; we've had many sax players in our store). It's part of the recording, unfortunately. I've been playing *around* avoiding those recorded noises.

I've mentioned this to a couple of other members, but almost nobody seems to notice the samples I'm talking about  *shrug*

[Oymmot]

I want to explain that I don't use styles, I only use my own made midi files and then it is almost impossible to use some sounds that match with several notes on the same track. As an end to this about distortion, it is impossible to make a recording without these unclean sounds that are present on several sounds. The problem exists, is built into the keyboard and cannot be fixed. I write in Swedish and use google for translation, so there are mistakes in the text at regular intervals. Tommy

[ton37]

I tried it myself and sometimes hear 'distortion'. Then I have to adjust or fine-tune that a bit. I don't see/hear the 'problem' yet? In my opinion it depends on the type of effect that is used and especially with, for example: strings (continuous musical sounds). In my opinion, the effect <FILTER> and the associated effects <CUTT OFF> and <RESONANCE> cause this phenomenon by changing the frequency range (part of the effect). In the example @Tommy gives (C, E and G: with a string voice) it is clearly audible that the 'disortion' increases/decreases when you turn the relevant knobs, especially at <RESONANCE>. It seems to me a logical 'consequence' of working with effects. That's what we wanted: more and more buttons and DSPs, right? 

[RoyB]

At a purely practical level, the 'distortion' type of sound that Tommy has described with strings and woodwind sounds has happened many times to me when making recordings on my Tyros5. I found that it is all too easy for Yamaha's strings, flutes and clarinets to sound 'distorted' in a recording,  and I have to be very careful to find ways to avoid, or at least minimise, this effect. For orchestral strings, I do have some non-Yamaha expansion voices I can use for some orchestral strings sounds and which sound 'cleaner'.

[Lee Batchelor]

Tommy, your English comes through fine. Thanks for mentioning about it.

From my experience, there are two musical worlds:
(1) Playing live at home or on a stage
(2) Recording oneself

The Genos has never been declared as the best instrument for recording, despite the MIDI and Audio recorders onboard the keyboard. Same goes for its predecessors. For home or live stage playing, it works great. For serious recording, you're better off using VST instruments. They have come down in price and outclass the Genos or any competitor arranger. In fact, Cubase 13 comes with an Orchestral VST plugin that sounds amazing - although the brass voices aren't as good as the Genos. Go figure!

If one wants to record, he or she should use the Genos or similar MIDI keyboard to trigger VST voices in a DAW.