Genos2 vs Genos1

[ton37]

In the guitar forum I frequent, this is called "Gear Acquisition Syndrome" or GAS.  There is no known cure for GAS, only temporarily reducing the symptoms by emptying your bank accounts, and using up your credit lines. 

Of course, I'm completely immune to GAS,
  Craig

Yes, me too now, I've had my injections 

[pjd]

It's a very bad idea to try to compare different music quality via YT.

Especially in the case of ambient drums and REVelation reverb, I agree. I don't get the sense of space -- any space -- from Youtube comparisons. Thus, I look forward to the day when I can hear G2 in person.

BTW, a 1 hour+ video without index points is sheer torture to navigate. I don't have time to watch beginning to end of anything except a good, close football game.  Even then, the advertisements are excruciating. 

That said, it's still, as G1 is (was), it plays a bit too CD'ish and polished, or if you like, too perfect sounding out of the box for my taste. But, change sounds and effects is something users can adjust into personal taste.

I agree with Gunnar Jonny and don't think (or hope) anyone should take offense. The Genos sonic gestalt is pristine sound as though the music was produced in a studio. That works stunningly for certain genres like film soundtracks and so forth.

Here comes the "but." There are genres where the sound is dirty as sin -- and that's the charm. I was thinking about Link Ray "Rumble". https://youtu.be/ucTg6rZJCu4 It ain't Quincy Jones and no self-respecting pop producer today would record drums that way! 

By way of comparison, play along with one of the retro 50's R&R styles -- way too polite, no edge. Probably why I run everything through a compressor and distortion effect (e.g., Multi FX, Small Stereo distortion).

All the best -- pj

[Dutchman]

I've been able to compare the G1 to G2 this whole afternoon.
The guy from the store and I went through many of the changes to the G2 and I've never played so many songs in one afternoon.
The were equally sett up with both the gns-ms01 speakers installed just as I have at home with my G1.

Mind you I was quite sceptical after hearing/seeing the different demonstrations on YouTube.
The extra money I need to invest is not something I can do just like that but I won't eat another slice of bread less either, it is what it is, an investment.
I love my G1 and it's not that I need the G2, I'm not the kind off person who always wants the latest or newest.
However......

I'm getting my G2 next month.
No matter what other people say but to me the sound quality is much better then the G1.
It sounds more real or immersive? I was very pleasantly surprised.
The new reverb is a game changer and the drums are fantastic, also some of the new voices realy blew me away.

Now that I compared the two comprehensively no one can convince me different about the G2 being the better one, at least for me.
The G1 is a fantastic keyboard, one of the best, but to me the G2 is better.

[valimaties]

Yeah, sorry to say, but for me the ambient and revelation will not help me at all. Yes, probably for those who plays at home is ok, but to sing in a big saloon with already a built-in hall, and to use those new fx it will be a pain for my ears. Right now I don't use the reverb at all for my playing, because I use the natural reverb/hall from the place I sing. And seems to sounds more "live" in this way.

Regards,
Vali

[ton37]

No need to apologize. Everyone has their own preference or workflow. Above all, do what you think works best for yourself. If you produce a reverb via a mixer, the output of the entire keyboard will receive a 'reverb'. As you indicate, you may not want that. You know best and I have no judgment on that. My compliments that you perform with it (and with your singing)! A note regarding reverb/ambience. There is a difference: that is characteristic of the sound. In the G2 you can set or omit 'reverb or ambience' per style section (bas, right1, ac1,ac2, phrase etc.). That can help tune certain parts of a style. The Dynamic Control is ideally suited to, for example, bringing the accompaniment (percussion) to the foreground or background. I don't know if this 'works' for you? Without making a value judgement, I would like to mention this. 

[rattley]

Hello, 

Before I got my Genos2 I was worried when those and Yamaha described this new reverb.  I always thought added reverb always sounded fake and cheapened the mix. I even added reverb once in a while just to "cover up" some things I didn't like in the audio.  Boy!! Am I wrong. I find the Steinberg reverb Yamaha decided to use awesome!  It is not overdone and the adjustments you make are smooth never giving it that cheezy cheap reverb I hate.  Well done Mr Yamaha!!!  -charley

[pjd]

Yeah, sorry to say, but for me the ambient and revelation will not help me at all. Yes, probably for those who plays at home is ok, but to sing in a big saloon with already a built-in hall, and to use those new fx it will be a pain for my ears. Right now I don't use the reverb at all for my playing, because I use the natural reverb/hall from the place I sing. And seems to sounds more "live" in this way.

I agree with Vali and have similar concerns with my gig instrument (Yamaha MODX). I play in a large church with its own natural acoustics. Thus, I dial down reverb, tempo/time delay and that kind of stuff. Even stereo is lost because our PA system carries everything in MONO.

I leave a little bit of reverb on for when I practice. A totally dry sound (no ambience) is painful even if it's just me in my studio room. Context is important.

Keep havin' fun -- pj

[pjd]

The Dynamic Control is ideally suited to, for example, bringing the accompaniment (percussion) to the foreground or background. I don't know if this 'works' for you? Without making a value judgement, I would like to mention this. 

This is a Classic production technique. Man, nothing says "Listen to the words" when the vocal is suddenly dry and close.

That's why I love Yamaha's arrangers -- there's so much to learn and steal.    -- pj

[ton37]

Attention is always paid to the difference between the G1 and the G2.  Of course there are plenty of keybaord owners who switch from another model to the G2.  This comparison is much less interesting for them.  At most it helps them choose between a nice used G1 instead of a new expensive G2.  Most new owners who traded in their G1 for a G2 praise the difference with the G1.  The most striking advantage is that the new G2 owners are very enthusiastic about the beautiful sound that the G2 produces compared to the G1.  But that sometimes causes quite a bit of resistance.  The reason may be that by comparing both top keyboards, the owners of the G1 feel too disadvantaged because they still think that they have a keyboard that is still of great class, which is of course true in itself.  It just 'hurts a little' to realize that you no longer have the number 1 in your hands.  The Genos1 is a beautiful keboard.  The Genos 2 is slightly better.  How much better then?  Then I try to make a statement here.  On a scale of 1 to 10: the Genos 1 gets an 8 and the Genos 2 gets a 9.5.  So you can be quite satisfied with a keyboard that gets an 8!!!  But there is one who got a higher grade, that's life.  Get used to it for your own peace of mind...

[valimaties]

Ton, I give a like to your post, because almost everything is true. What it isn't, at least for me, I'm not feeling like I don't have the TOTL in my hands, at all. I'm upset that Yamaha stopped the updating G1 OS as long as they released the G2 even if we all know that a lot of new features in G2 could be also in G1. And was a lot of emails sent to Yamaha to do that, but if they have done that there was not a G2 right now. This is what bothers me and I've already said it many times. It's a shame Yamaha do this for their clients. Can you say that G1 cannot have the G2's Style Creator? Can you say that G1 cannot have new voice editing parameters? These are only software things which does not interact negativelly with G1 hardware. Again, G1 can have a lot of things, but they prefered to release a new keyboard with those new functions than updating the old one. That is why knowing G1 can, I'm feeling dissapointed.

Regards,
Vali

[ton37]

I read what you write, but it sounds a bit like Don Quixote's battle against the windmills  .  If you look around you you will see plenty of examples of the same nature.  It is somewhat unrealistic to hope that Yamaha will update the G1 to G2 level for free.  Technically it can go a long way, but they are not crazy.  Yamaha simply has to make money for its shareholders.  When you bought the G1 you got what it was.  You can still be happy with an encore of OS 2.0. That's it.  The same applies to the G2: you can't expect more here, at most some maintenance updates.  What you see (hear) is what you get... Jm2c

[Amwilburn]

I agree with Vali and have similar concerns with my gig instrument (Yamaha MODX). I play in a large church with its own natural acoustics. Thus, I dial down reverb, tempo/time delay and that kind of stuff. Even stereo is lost because our PA system carries everything in MONO.

I leave a little bit of reverb on for when I practice. A totally dry sound (no ambience) is painful even if it's just me in my studio room. Context is important.

Keep havin' fun -- pj

Actually, Paul, the ambient drums can be dry and still completely different than before (no reverb dsp's added); because the sample has a *very* short room reverb baked in. You can also change the mic placement, etc. So even with post Reverb DSP's removed, the sound is quite different. Again, can't wait til you take a short trip up here next time so you can A/B yourself. Heck, if you're flying in, we're *one* minute from the airport by taxi!

I'm warning you, you'll probably need at least a couple of hours to really start to dig into it!

I just looked at your website, you already knew that, lol!

Well to address *those* questions:
-The overhead flourecent lights wash out the G1 display at certain angles. No such issue with the G2 display.
-I'm also disappointed they didn't at the rotary sim from the YC.
-I'm also disappointed and baffled by the switch from OLED to LCD for the fader /rotary menu. and since I still have very sensitive EYES, the bright glare from the LCD backlighT fatigue my rods (I already have it set to the darkest setting).

The new Classical nylon guitar sounds *so* much thicker and richer than the old one (which was introduced on T2, so it was getting long in the tooth). Same goes for the new drums (especially orchestral!), brass, solo brass, solo strings, etc.

The new G2 CFX is bettrer than the G1 CFX. I can't really elabourate more, since I was expecting this huge upgrade, and I got a little one. The Character Grand *is* really good, on par with Korg Pa5x's. But all of the Pa5x pianos sound that rich and full, not just 1. The PA5x drums actually sound deeper (more thump) than the G1 or G2 drums, but in terms of realism, the G2 drums win (again, even stripping out the reverb).

The new strings and brass on the G2 blow away every other arranger, even the diehard Korg loyalist I know was shocked when he heard the G2 "wow, it makes my Korg sound  like a toy", referring to orchestral sounds. The Pianos, drums , bass on Pa5x, are still om the same level with the G2.


I have all 3 side by side. We won't carry Ketron again, as long as there's no repair centre in Canada, so I can't compare Ketron anymore

Mark





Mark

[valimaties]

I read what you write, but it sounds a bit like Don Quixote's battle against the windmills  .  If you look around you you will see plenty of examples of the same nature.  It is somewhat unrealistic to hope that Yamaha will update the G1 to G2 level for free.  Technically it can go a long way, but they are not crazy.  Yamaha simply has to make money for its shareholders.  When you bought the G1 you got what it was.  You can still be happy with an encore of OS 2.0. That's it.  The same applies to the G2: you can't expect more here, at most some maintenance updates.  What you see (hear) is what you get... Jm2c

yeah... you are sticky on Yamaha's thinking. An aged thinking! If you'll see other than Yamaha do for its clients, for example Ketron, Korg, that would be fine. But if you look only from Yamaha persepctive, yeah, aged thinking, sorry! Indeed "they deserve their fate" is very true in this case, LOL

[ton37]

Mmm.., one of the things I usually say is that you have to think and act from the consumer's perspective, without taking into account what a producer wants/does. From that point of view we agree. Large companies have the tendency to be 'authoritarian/customer unfriendly', especially when they make large profits. Where we differ is what 'reality' content a consumer question can have. But then, as you indicate, you can be disappointed because you may create expectations for yourself? And that is what I was referring to.
Of course, that doesn't affect the fact that you can ask that, and indeed ask the company itself, but then it can become the pitfall I outlined above. And I have nothing to do with Yamaha, it just happens that they supply some products that I like. But then tomorrow could be different again. 

[EileenL]

Yes Ton,
  I also like Yamaha products and for me there after service has always been excellent and that for me is also very important when making my choice. I also realize that only so many things can be added to these boards and that Yamaha will make the right choices on what most expect from a keyboard.

[mikf]

No it's not aged thinking, it's insightful thinking and Ton has a correct assessment of Yamaha's strategy and market position. Yamaha dominate the segment, and their strategy is that of the dominant player. The others like Korg and Ketron have to try and find some edge just to keep a survivable share. They have managed that, by adopting some different approaches from Yamaha, but your feeling about what you are entitled to as a customer is just not the way that business works.
Different companies have different approaches, but your idea that Yamaha 'deserve their fate' is miles off the mark because Yamaha are the ones winning. In the boardrooms no one will know that better than Korg and Ketron.
Mike

[valimaties]

I must disagree. Because on my country the percent of Yamaha arrangers (Genos1, Genos2 or Tyroses) are 20-30%. The rest of 70-80% is Korg. Why?! Because Korg always give what clients asked. And these things was already discussed tons of times. Personally I want that percent of Yamaha keyboards raise in Romania too, but will not raise if Yamaha stops giving what we need, and what Korg already gives. And Yamaha does not implement those functions because even if you guys don't need them you tell everytime that nobody need them, and that is what upset me most of all. We are not united like those from other forums of other brands. Here there are two camps: the camp which does not interest of new feature if those one does not helps them, and the camp which needs more than what current model have, knowing that it can be added.

There were a lot of discussions about Style Creator and CC64 (Sustain) . Most of you don't know what is that control and what is designed for, how to work with it when to use it and when not. I know that there are also users which I know what I'm talking about. But everytime when this was disscused there were those users which does not know about it and came writing that this does not have to be implemented as long as they don't know how to use it or for what purpose is this. WHAT?! Exaclty!! If Yamaha sees those comments, they will think that users don't want that because they don't know what to do with it! But if there will be comments like "Ok, I don't understand what you tell here about this CC64, but maybe if you need this control because it helps you, then lets say to Yamaha to implement it, even if I will never use it because I don't need it"... this will be other thing. These kind of messages will help other users to use this instrument in the way they needs.

And there are a lot of discussions about this subject, which I cannot tell anymore right now. I'm dissapointed about some users here in the term of how they think, because they are selfish, and they don't think of the needs of somebody else. If the keyb is good because for them as it is right now, because they don't know what to do with a new feature or simply is not interest for him/she, doesn't matter what other people needs. This I call it selfishness.   

In the meantime, Merry Christmas everyone! 
Vali

[ton37]

Whish you also happy days 

[EileenL]

What else are people supposed to write when they tell you of there keyboards. We all except that members have there own uses and that has always been. I do use a lot of editing facilities on my Yamaha keyboards and have shared with many over time.
  We can only write about what we find from our own personal use. surely that's what forums are about but doing this we do not expect to be called selfish. That is a very Childish way to think of things. If my keyboard did not do what I wanted then I would change to one that did End of. 

[mikf]

Valimaties, you are perfectly right to say that you will not buy Genos 2 because it doesn't meet your desires or expectations. If enough people think that way, the product fails. If enough love it, the product succeeds. That's the way the free market works. But selfish??? ...because someone loves a product that doesn't meet your expectations....?? That doesn't make sense.
Each consumer makes a judgement about about what works for them.
The supplier has to make a judgement what will succeed, both in the market appeal and financially.
Trying to meet everyone's expectations can end up with something that no one likes.
The suppliers only real responsibility to the consumer is to deliver what they advertise and not deliberately mislead. As far as I can see Yamaha never promised to provide upgrades to Genos 1 or all the features in G2 some people would like. That was all wishful thinking, not fact.

Mike

[Amwilburn]

Valimaties, you are perfectly right to say that you will not buy Genos 2 because it doesn't meet your desires or expectations. If enough people think that way, the product fails. If enough love it, the product succeeds. That's the way the free market works. But selfish??? ...because someone loves a product that doesn't meet your expectations....?? That doesn't make sense.
Each consumer makes a judgement about about what works for them.
The supplier has to make a judgement what will succeed, both in the market appeal and financially.
Trying to meet everyone's expectations can end up with something that no one likes.
The suppliers only real responsibility to the consumer is to deliver what they advertise and not deliberately mislead. As far as I can see Yamaha never promised to provide upgrades to Genos 1 or all the features in G2 some people would like. That was all wishful thinking, not fact.

Mike

Well said, Mike. But additionally, the Genos 1 is the *most* supported Yamaha keyboard in history. To become upset because it's finally met its end of life? If anything, as a consumer, you should be thinking "Wow, they supported the Genos 1with updates throughout it's 6 year run... that's amazing product support". My PSRs970 received product support from Yamaha from 2015 (launch) until 2019/2020, after which no new expansion packs were added for it. Not bad.

But the G1 actually received a huge flash ram upgrade, nearly doubling memory (via compression, but still; my s970 is still stuck at 509 mb!), new features (chord looper wasn't there at the start) and some inexplicable features that were on other boards but not G1 (bearing in mind it was the first touch screen portable, so completely new OS, so some things fell through the cracks... like no user styles for chord step recording, or string arpeggiator.. *both* of which exist on other boards). They've now added the user style chord step recording, and multi time signature styles (like A5000) to G2, and yes it's sad they won't add them to G1 (and inexplicably, string arpeggiators still aren't on G2 either... but *are* on PSRs/sx series).

If anybody should complain, it's T4 users. They were never given the option of picking and choosing samples and packs from YEM. Can't even download the packs that *were* available from Yamahamusicsoft, as they've been removed. It didn't come with any expansion ram, had to pay $200 for 512mb! ANd it seemed to similar to T5, it's kind of surprising they never went back and updated the OS to add anything from the T5, like Audiostyles, or ensemble mode. Neither T4 nor T5 received arpeggiators (but the PSRs970 *did*!)

The point is, the Genos is the *most* supported Yamaha product ever, and from what I can tell, possibly the most supported keyboard ever!

Mark

[valimaties]

... That is a very Childish way to think of things. If my keyboard did not do what I wanted then I would change to one that did End of.

If you think that my wish you to accept what I wish to be implemented in this keyboard is childish, sorry you think that!
If your keyboard does not do what you want, but could do through an update, you don't ask for that update to the designer? If not, it's your choise, but you can, no one stops you. But when someone ask and YOU stop it ask, how this is called?!

Valimaties, you are perfectly right to say that you will not buy Genos 2 because it doesn't meet your desires or expectations. If enough people think that way, the product fails. If enough love it, the product succeeds. That's the way the free market works. But selfish??? ...because someone loves a product that doesn't meet your expectations....?? That doesn't make sense.

I don't write in english very good? Because I think I'm missunderstood. I didn't say anything about my expectations about the new model or something like that. I wrote about the Genos1 and the features that could have been implemented from Genos 2. Please read correctly what I wrote!!!

... As far as I can see Yamaha never promised to provide upgrades to Genos 1 or all the features in G2 some people would like. That was all wishful thinking, not fact.

Did I write somewhere that Yamaha promised to introduce something and didn't?
Come on, I said that some needs which I (and not only me) had was denied by some users here, when we should have been united and accepted what others would like from a keyboard.

That's all from me!

[Akki]

Good day group ❤️🍻

In regards of this one and to try to conclude and address some other ongoing to(p/x)ics,...

While hobbyists and occasional gig performers may find satisfaction in using factory resources and settings, it's important to recognize that professional musicians who make a living through music, production, or custom sets often require more. Instead of dismissing their needs, let's embrace the diversity within the community. The preferences of one group shouldn't diminish the choices of another.

Personally aligning more with the second group, I rarely comment on threads about (ex.) extensive Yamaha Packs and registrations and their collectors (how many? 4896+ Yamaha Packs and 74662+ registrations). I respect others' choices, recognizing that everyone has their own preferences. If there is nothing positive, contributing, helpful that you have to say, rather just ignore... Is that hard?
Let's foster a supportive environment where different opinions can coexist.

In a world filled with negativity, we, as a "music-nation", should stand united, appreciating the opportunity to create music with both factory and custom sets (resources).

Let's spread love and music in harmony.

[alvaromrocha]

Genos 2 is a Genos 1 with a software upgrade.
Exact same audio hardware and DSP chips.

Anybody fantasizing otherwise is deluded.
For Genos 1 users it's a rip off, for others, it's as amazing, as Genos 1 is, if you forget the betrayal of ending its product life with no more future updates, when it's the exact same freaking hardware, minus the useless cosmetic changes.

Period.

[Akki]

Genos 2 is a Genos 1 with a software upgrade.
Exact same audio hardware and DSP chips.

Anybody fantasizing otherwise is deluded.
For Genos 1 users it's a rip off, for others, it's as amazing, as Genos 1 is, if you forget the betrayal of ending its product life with no more future updates, when it's the exact same freaking hardware, minus the useless cosmetic changes.

Period.

It would be nice if someone would confirm above statement about hardware/chips.
I can't really say anything about it, or about any comparison, as G2 is my "first" Yamaha (after SX900 I had for a month with hardware failure/confirmed by Yamaha) and having G1 for several weeks just before I received my G2.

[Sokratis1974]

Let me to comment on some issues that were touched upon a little while ago.
Just because the Genos 1 and Genos 2, like all other Yamaha Arrangers, lack some features doesn't mean they are bad instruments. I don't think anyone has ever said that. For my part I would like to tell you that for the first time in my life I bought a Yamaha and that was the Genos 1 and of course I never regretted it. But it's sad when we ask Yamaha for functions, which in other companies are self-evident and I'm sure it's very easy for a company like Yamaha to give them to the user with a simple update and while he can give them, he does not give them. Of course, neither Yamaha nor any other company promises more when a new product is released on the market. However, for many years now, and mainly since the transition of all companies to the Linux platform, things are much simpler and above all much more open to new possibilities than they were before.
And we all saw the result with the impressive 2.0 OS upgrade for the Genos 1 where the Ram increased from 1.7 giga to 3 giga, with the Chord Looper etc. The same happened with Korg on the Pa4x, with the Next 3.0 OS.
Therefore, we see that when there is a will from the company, let alone from a company like Yamaha which is by far the biggest and strongest of all other companies, it can satisfy some of the wishes of several of its customers who as I said before in other companies are self-explanatory.
And I'll give you an example. As you may know, I have been an external partner of Ketron for a few years now, working from time to time on some tasks given to me by the company to implement. Of course, this does not obligate me to not be able to work on the arrangers of another company, or to not be able to express a public opinion, because I am not an employee but a partner having signed a strict NDA which of course I am follow to the letter. But during the development and preparation of Event before it was released on the market, and since it was released on the market, I have seen and experienced how quickly the company's engineers can act when users request a function. For example, I remember that the different Time Signature per variation did not even exist in Ketron and from the moment it was requested it was implemented by the chief engineer within a few hours, as well as many other features that were not even in the original specifications, and which were persistently requested by users, were implemented during one working day and sent to the beta testing group for testing. And so, I ask here: How is it possible for such a very small company like Ketron, to listen to the concerns of its users on the one hand, and on the other hand to implement them in its entirety (at least those that can be implemented). And I'll give an example so you understand better: Some very famous Youtuber who is an expert on Yamaha Arrangers (I won't mention his name because I don't have his permission to do so), but maybe you all understand who is, he did a test on his channel at the Event and expressed some wish about the Real Drum (Audio Drum) EQ settings, and said that it would be great if there was an option to have, in addition to the individual separate EQ setting in each style , and a Global EQ setting for all Real Drums of all Styles. So, I don't know how this request reached the company's engineering team, but the request was implemented almost immediately (from the moment he expressed it), and was given as a new feature in the recent 2.0 OS Update. And notice the difference: He wasn't, and isn't, a Ketron user, but was just given the Event for a few days by a store to try it out. So seeing how easy it is to implement new features through a simple update, from the smaller company (Ketron), and on the other hand knowing as a Genos 1 user, that I and other users, we ask Yamaha (via email), so persistent for so long that there should be some additions that would help us with the particular needs of the musical cultures in our countries, and for the company to simply not care, honestly makes me very sad. And it makes me sad because I have really loved my Genos very much, but as I said again in another post, I must part with it because it just tired me out. And it tired me a lot creatively, because I constantly must prepare new music program by renewing the old one, which means that there are especially increased needs, and I need a fast and flexible Arranger that will provide the tools to implement my needs. Unfortunately, Yamaha can't meet these needs for me, or in some cases they can but with a lot of effort, and a lot of time. And I repeat, neither I nor anyone else ever said, that Yamaha, or any another company, is obliged to implement whatever the user requests, but we all know that in the context of competition, that this exists and is implemented (to a degree). It's just a matter of will, and I'm truly sorry that such a big company like Yamaha doesn't have that will or doesn't consider a portion of its users.
Merry Christmas to all!!

[BogdanH]

Sokratis, what you just described (and I totally agree on) is actually the difference between big and small companies.

We consumer think that big company has a power (potential, knowledge, resources, money, etc.) to make the best product possible. And that's thinking is partially also the reason why we many times decide for bigger company -because it makes us feel more secure if we buy their product.
But fact is, that all big companies (Yamaha is good example) are very rigid: they make a plan for next project and they stick to plan without exception -even if it turns out the project was a mistake (they can afford to compensate that with advertisement). That is, no matter how many suggestion mails we send them, if product works according to plan, nothing will change. Besides that, there are so many people in hierarchy chain, that it can easily happen that our wishes and complains simply get lost.
In short: what we buy is what will end with.

Small companies are much more flexible because every person is almost directly involved in development & improvement process and without obstacles in communication. And maybe worth to mention: if team is smaller, then there's usually much more enthusiasm (to make their "baby" the best they can) than that's the case where army of people are involved.

Bogdan

[Sokratis1974]

Sokratis, what you just described (and I totally agree on) is actually the difference between big and small companies.

We consumer think that big company has a power (potential, knowledge, resources, money, etc.) to make the best product possible. And that's thinking is partially also the reason why we many times decide for bigger company -because it makes us feel more secure if we buy their product.
But fact is, that all big companies (Yamaha is good example) are very rigid: they make a plan for next project and they stick to plan without exception -even if it turns out the project was a mistake (they can afford to compensate that with advertisement). That is, no matter how many suggestion mails we send them, if product works according to plan, nothing will change. Besides that, there are so many people in hierarchy chain, that it can easily happen that our wishes and complains simply get lost.
In short: what we buy is what will end with.

Small companies are much more flexible because every person is almost directly involved in development & improvement process and without obstacles in communication. And maybe worth to mention: if team is smaller, then there's usually much more enthusiasm (to make their "baby" the best they can) than that's the case where army of people are involved.

Bogdan

I totally agree with you Bogdan. And this saddens me even more because I understand that the margins with Yamaha are too narrow to hope for anything in the future. But who knows? Life is full of surprises!

[soundphase]

Designing and producing such specialised SWP micro-processors is certainly not as agile a process as it is in IT. There are certainly profitability studies behind them, and therefore plans for many years.

Nevertheless, if Yamaha's product managers were totally deaf to the wishes of musicians, Yamaha would have stopped producing arrangers a long time ago.

What I currently think is:
- Audio is not the target (audio styles are no longer promoted) => Yamaha wants arranger players to play notes and not just play mp3s
- AWM2 remains the core sampling/reproduction technology => they certainly think the sampling technology is good enough
- they improve the realism of reproduction on the same material base with new algorithms and more detailed styles
- they increase the number of "assign" buttons to help users configure their keyboard in the best possible way so as to increase interaction as a "real" player.

I like this target.

[Amwilburn]

Sokratis, you make some well thought out points; but could I please request paragraph formatting? it's extremely difficult to read a long post without paragraph formatting!
thanks,

Mark