DX7 sounds

[Oldden]

One thing I'm not understanding is saying that it is able to play sounds from the DX7, what I remember, it's a long time since I had a go on one is that the Dx7 had six operators, each altering the next one in the list and the sounds came from cartridges of 32 sounds and was a nightmare to program from the tiny display. If we only get a tiny non alterable selection then what's the point of saying fm sounds when there is not the same control or choice of sounds.
There are thousands of free sounds out there including all the original Yamaha roms and the actual file sizes are very small so that should not be a problem
It's possible that Yamaha will bring out some form of editor for dx files. Dexed is a very good DX7 emulator and will run as a stand-alone in windows and other systems or as a vst in most DAWs and it's free. Plus there are lots of others. Maybe something similar from Yamaha that will let us load new sounds into Genos. as it is now, it seems a dead end.

[konaboy32]

most g2 owners aren't interested in programming sounds, let alone diving into FM synthesis parameters.

other more appropriate synths are available if you are into programming FM synthesis.

the g2 contains a good selection of DX7 factory presets to keep you going for a long time. most users of DX7 only played presets anyway and didn't do any editing.

having DX7 presets available to play and use in styles is sufficient on an arranger keyboard for the vast majority, that is why Yamaha have chosen this implementation and I doubt they will every change it.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Use vst with Genos 2 and you can have a million DX sounds

[Oldden]

Hi Ugawoga, to be honest I only play fm, Dx7 and the like from my laptop using an irig keys midi keyboard from my laptop into my guitar amp. Sometimes from my DAW and sometimes as a stand-alone. There is like you said thousands of options to do it that way, many of them free. I only put the message on because Yamaha might find a way to make some money selling dx7 stuff if they can.

[EileenL]

Us poor folks on here that just want to sit and play there keyboards just as they are
do get left out on most of these conversations. Why oh why do we seem to be the minority that want to keep music live.

[Oldden]

You are definitely not in the minority Eileen, I love just sitting down and playing what ever I fancy. With me, it might be that I was working with and programming computers before windows was invented and it gets in the blood. Nowadays my grandchildren are more knowledgeable than I ever was. Looking at different options and not understanding most of them helps to keep my brain alive. Keep playing and keep enjoying your Genos as I do .
Den.

[EileenL]

Yes Den I certainly will. I do lots of tweaking, make my own multi pads do a lot of recording. I also edit a lot of voices but all on the keyboard and it is lots of fun to do.
I love trying different effects on voices and it is surprising what you can come up with. 

[DerekA]

It feels to me that Yamaha included the FM sounds just because the tone generator used by Genos (G1 and G2) is the same one used by Montage/MODX, and is capable of 8-operator FM synthesis. So it was a farly cheap, out-of-the-box decision to enable the FM fhannels on the chip along with a bunch of presets, and make this a new feature of G2. Eileen is right, most Genos users won't want to program the FM synth anyway. But I do think it would be a good move by Yamaha to at least publish the format of a file that can be loaded through YEM.

[J. Larry]

I'm amazed at all the gear, software, and third party stuff that many of the contributors use.  For me, I don't have the time, inclination, or know-how to mess with all of that.  I, too, am one of those sit and play folks.  Maybe adjust a few things here and there (reverb, EQ, etc.), but don't dive too deeply.  The technical stuff gets in the way of the music.

[pjd]

I do think it would be a good move by Yamaha to at least publish the format of a file that can be loaded through YEM.

Hi Derek --

I agree. Despite continual complaints about tech discussions, there are willing minds and hands on the Forum to build the necessary software tools. [Franky, I don't know where the complainers think user-contributed software comes from -- trees?]

YEM has the necessary tags for FM-X parameters. If we could see even one plaintext UVF file for an FM voice, we can suss out the rest. There's a lot of technically astute folks on the Forum.

Our best bet is to write a translation tool from Montage/MODX format to UVF. Yamaha is not going to spend money on an FM-X editor for Genos when it leaves the YEM voice editor in such disrepair.

Keep plugging away and take care -- pj

[Tommy 73]

Hi Derek --

I agree. Despite continual complaints about tech discussions, there are willing minds and hands on the Forum to build the necessary software tools. [Franky, I don't know where the complainers think user-contributed software comes from -- trees?]

YEM has the necessary tags for FM-X parameters. If we could see even one plaintext UVF file for an FM voice, we can suss out the rest. There's a lot of technically astute folks on the Forum.

Our best bet is to write a translation tool from Montage/MODX format to UVF. Yamaha is not going to spend money on an FM-X editor for Genos when it leaves the YEM voice editor in such disrepair.

Keep plugging away and take care -- pj

(((( Absolutely ))))... I fully agree. Why some folk argue against us tech-heads is beyond me...

I know more want to clip their wings as they seem to constantly want to clip mine...

All the tech discussions are informative, helpful, interesting, and add flavour to my music...

"The Music" flows like a rive from my studio and stronger and better for reading all the tech-talks in these forums

P.s. Live and let live... thats what I say 

[Michael Trigoboff]

I haven't seen any complaints about tech discussions around here; just lucky, I guess.

Can someone point me to a thread where such complaints are present? I'm curious...

[clevermoniker]

A fellow by the name of Martine Tarenskeen developed some software to convert DX7 (and other legacy FM synths) patches to the Reface DX. If you search for the "Reface DX Legacy Project" you should find the link. However, it does not appear that he has designed anything for the Genos.

Us poor folks on here that just want to sit and play there keyboards just as they are
do get left out on most of these conversations. Why oh why do we seem to be the minority that want to keep music live.

I'm a big fan of sound design and especially FM synthesis and I can understand each side of this topic. I often think I should spend more time making MUSIC and less time making patches that sound like my cat. The lack of a clear method to utilize custom sounds is a bit of disappointment for me. I suppose it's a lesson for me in time management 

There is clearly a loyal fan club of the DX7 here 40 years later so I would not be surprised if someone finds a way to integrate Dexed or convert DX7 syx to Genos FM, but so far I have seen nothing in this regard.

[soundphase]

Yes Den I certainly will. I do lots of tweaking, make my own multi pads do a lot of recording. I also edit a lot of voices but all on the keyboard and it is lots of fun to do.
I love trying different effects on voices and it is surprising what you can come up with.

For me Eileen, as soon as you use "voice edit" or "style creator", it is no longer "just sit and play".
It's just a "level" of tools usage.

Yesterday evening, I spent some hours tweaking 2 electric guitars (attack, portamento, reverb, ...) simultaneously trying to copy 1 Eric Clapton's sound (to improve my Wonderful Tonight rendition). I would have preferred finding it directly, but it was not the case.

[clevermoniker]

I was surprised to find this official Yamaha app (in beta) that allows converting legacy FM patches for Montage/MODX. I don't know if this app is still current, but it shows that Yamaha is aware that people want to apply their old programming to new hardware.

https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/en/fmconverter/index/converter

I tested it by uploaded one of my old .syx files and it returned a zipped .x7l file for me. I don't have a Montage/MODX so I don't know if it's usable.

I don't know whether the Genos would be able to use them either for that matter.

[EileenL]

Hello Soundphase,
  When I edit voices or styles I then create a registration bank using these.
Then I just select my music and sit down and play it. By sit and play I mean no multi tracking or step recording or playing along to midi files. In other words it is just me playing the keyboard with no other outside help.

[danand]

I tested it by uploaded one of my old .syx files and it returned a zipped .x7l file for me. I don't have a Montage/MODX so I don't know if it's usable.

It works!!! I test it on my Montage a couple of years ago and the convention works.
There are a few patches that doesn't work 100% since Montage has more operators but after a few minutes of "editing" (mainly find the "problematic" operators and switch them off or reduce the amount of modulation) you get decent results.

I believe that Yamaha will release soon or latter, a similar convert app for Genos 2

[andyg]

I'm sure it's technically possible and while I personally don't like FM programming - 'painting blindfold', as we used to say - I'd probably have a quick dabble!

Whether or not Yamaha decide to spend the time and money developing any software and revising the firmware of the G2 will depend on just how many people they feel will use it. If, as I suspect, it's a rather small minority of users, then don't hold your breath.

Whilst I don't think anyone is arguing against the more 'technical' users, the fact remains that most players of arranger keyboards are home players. Many are in the 'senior' age groups, quite a lot of them are playing very simply, using basic keyboard/fake books or even E-Z Play books. Many are using 'one finger' chords and some don't go further than using OTS and Music Finder/Playlist. That's the core market and, although Yamaha have made strides to promote Genos and now Genos 2 to the more professional player, I suspect that the core market will always be like that.

[mikf]

Andy, you are correct about the core market, and there are also many good players playing arrangers, without being system tinkerers.
I think this need to 'get under the hood' and play with sounds and functions is a sub set of a sub set. It is similar to the people who buy cars and pick ups then proceed to make all kind of change to engines, suspensions, etc etc.
The vast, vast majority of owners, good players or learners, like the majority of car owners, have no interest these things. But this is a forum, and discussions on these type of things will always exist. That's part of the function of the forum.
Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

What is the point of owning a Genos 2 if you do not delve into all of it's features.
That is what we all pay for.
Just take the Midi to Stylemaker, just the surface and the fancy lights.
Get your Yellow Submarine outfit on and Dive, dive, dive

[Oldden]

It's great when you have a choice. Just want to play it without tinkering, that's great. Want to dive into the workings that's great too. Magic that you can do either or both.

[soundphase]

When you compose a song using a Genos2 and a DAW, it's totally different from hosting a party with the Genos2.

I don't understand why we should consider some are right and some are wrong.

[mikf]

What is the point of owning a Genos 2 if you do not delve into all of it's features.
That is what we all pay for.

No John, it's not what we ALL pay for.  Many people buy a Genos so they can play Moon River and it sounds recognizable and half way decent even with their limited skills. Actually that may be vast majority on arrangers.
You want to be able to produce a cover version of Mr Blue Skies where all the instruments and mix and sound are exactly like the original. I might want to play jazz piano with drums and bass accompaniment and sound like the Oscar Peterson trio.
Everyone has different goals, and the great thing about a TOTL arranger is that we all can get a little bit closer. Yamaha has to try and produce an affordable, easy to use instrument that gives us all something close to we want. But realistically it will never be everything for everybody.

Mike

[EileenL]

That is very true Mike.

[Michael Trigoboff]

What is the point of owning a Genos 2 if you do not delve into all of it's features.
...
Get your Yellow Submarine outfit on and Dive, dive, dive

This would definitely be me. But I understand that not everyone is a retired software developer who is "on the spectrum" and has an obsessive need to understand every single thing about a new toy.

As long as you are having fun and you feel like you got your moneys worth, it's all good...

[pjd]

I don't understand why we should consider some are right and some are wrong.

I totally agree.

Between converting R&B styles and playing my new CSP-170, I'm having my own party.

The new Genos2 styles are very well-played. Having a little trouble finding alternative G1 FM sounds — names like "SynLead5" are not much help.

Sorry for stirring the hornet's nest — pj