REVO (concept) - is it still in Genos 2?

[jimlaing]

I know that there is alot about the new Ambient drums, and how they were recorded with "room mics" etc., and that all sounds good and useful.  What I wonder, is whether they still use the "REVO" concept for the samples, even if the name has changed.  The REVO (revolving samples?) ideas on G1 was that each time a drum is 'hit' (played), even at the same velocity, it would 'revolve' through several slightly different samples, giving the drums an overall more 'human' or 'realistic' feel/sound.

I wonder if the new drums in G2, which they say replace the REVO drum kits in G1, still use 'revolving' samples for a given sound at a given velocity range?  I hope so, as that sure seemed like a great idea, and Yamaha touted it as a big advancement for G1.  I hope they kept that concept and then added the "Ambiance" features on top of that (the ability to mix 'dry' and room/wet sounds etc.).  Does anyone know if the revolving samples (idea) is still in the drum kits on G2?

[pjd]

Yes.

This is an example of misinformation circulating on other Forums.

The old Revo Kits are in the Legacy part of the voice list in the Data List PDF.

Yamaha rarely drops a technique in its entirety especially when the old technology is needed to support legacy styles, MIDI files recorded by users, and so forth.

Hope this clarifies — pj

[rattley]

Hello!

It never occurred to me that Yamaha wouldn't continue using their version of round robin just because there are new drums. I don't think that's the case. Anyone using samples these days just assumes their samples are multiple ones that revolve as to avoid noticeable repetition.  That would really be going backwards.  -charley

[jimlaing]

I figured that they'd keep that concept, since it's such a good one.  I was a little surprised when on one of Yamaha's own videos, the guy said something like "We've gotten rid of the REVO drums, and now have Ambient drums".  I guess he meant that they did new drum sampling, with extra mics (close and room), and also captured many samples per velocity range (round-robin) - hopefully!

[Sokratis1974]

I figured that they'd keep that concept, since it's such a good one.  I was a little surprised when on one of Yamaha's own videos, the guy said something like "We've gotten rid of the REVO drums, and now have Ambient drums".  I guess he meant that they did new drum sampling, with extra mics (close and room), and also captured many samples per velocity range (round-robin) - hopefully!

Hello. I think that with a careful look at the Genos2 specs, Yamaha clearly shows that the Revos are there: See 106 S.Articulation2, 437 S.Articulation, 141 FM, 40 Sweet!, 81 Cool!, 188 Live!, 25 OrganFlutes, 123 MegaVoices, 11 Ambient Drums/SFX, 11 Revo Drums/SFX
https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/musical_instruments/keyboards/arranger_workstations/genos2/specs.html#product-tabs

[pjd]

Hi Jim —

I think that remark was misinterpreted. I remember the word was "replaced", not "got rid of". That's what I remember, anyway.

— pj

[DaPaleRider]

So if the Ambient Drums also have the Revo Drums concept then we actually have 22 Revo Drums in total, of which 11 are Ambient 

[valimaties]

So if the Ambient Drums also have the Revo Drums concept then we actually have 22 Revo Drums in total, of which 11 are Ambient 

I don't think the Ambient Drums are made from Revo Drums.

[BogdanH]

I agree with Vali. I could nowhere notice that ambient and revo would be mentioned together.
As far I understand, there's "Ambient" drums and there's "Revo" drums (which now reside in Legacy section), where sample layers have totally different structure. That is, there's no two in one.

Bogdan

[konaboy32]

to simplify the question -
do the new "Ambient Drums" use round-robin sampling technology?

Round-Robins (RRs) allow you to play the same note repetitively and trigger different recordings of the same note. Sampling an instrument in this way results in natural variations in otherwise static patterns. This gives the instrument a realistic feel as each repeated note has a different performance

[valimaties]

It's simple to check for those which already have G2.
Make a midi file with snare key replicated for 20-30 times on the same expression and volume. If the resulted audio frequencies for each key is different then it is definitely Wave cycling.

[jimlaing]

Thanks for the responses and discussion.  Yes, konaboy32 simplified it nicely by saying that the basic question/topic is really do the new "Ambient Drums" use round-robin sampling technology?

Yes, also agree with what pad said, that they said they "Replaced" Revo with Ambient.  I didn't quote that correctly (I was going off imperfect memory! :-). But at the time, it still left me with the question about whether the Revo concept of round-robin drum samples, was used in creating the new Ambient drum samples and kits.  Sounds like from recent note here that YES, they keep the Revo (round-robin samples) concept in creating the Ambient drum kits.  I'm glad of that ...

[BogdanH]

...Sounds like from recent note here that YES, they keep the Revo (round-robin samples) concept in creating the Ambient drum kits....

Where from you have this info? I ask because, as I said in my previous post, I doubt that a single drumkit has Ambient and Revo feature. At least in DataList, they're listed separately, either as Ambi drums or Revo drums. For example:
RockKit -Ambi drums (in main section)
RockDrumKit -Revo drums (in legacy section)

Bogdan

[pjd]

Evidence:

1. Find an Ambi Kit like ProductionKit (127/9/82)
2. Find the note map for ProductionKit
3. Check the Revo column. Revo notes are marked.

While you're there, check out the Kick and High-Hat notes, MIDI note numbers 4 through 33. Drum instruments in this range are characteristic of Revo drum kits. These notes will not be heard if you play Revo MIDI data on a legacy ("ordinary") drum kit. Typical XG drum kits do not have drum instruments assigned in this note range.

Hope this helps and puts the issue to rest -- pj