Yamaha Genos 2 and Korg Pa5x Tutorial: Midi Song to Style App

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Des
What i am trying to get my head around is ---

If all done in C maj7th  no matter what key the song is in your chords will follow.

I am thinking if you do it in the key of the song then you can only play the song in that key.
So if you played another song in a different key it would be garbled and not make sense.
Do you know what i am trying to say.
Am i getting things wrong in my head here??
I just would like to know the why's

All the best
John

[robinez]

Now when you play ordinary lives and convert to C# everything after that follows.
What i am saying is that converting the key to the song in this program, you can still play any chord like the C major method. Every thing follows whatever chord that you play on the Genos in reality.

Am i right here?

I have a feeling that the chords in your tutorial will only follow the key of that song only
If you want to say perform that song in C, it might not work unless you convert what the Genos is based on C Major 7th.

it works as follows in the video,
if you set the chord information for that intro section (for instance that section in the midi file is originally in C#minor) then you have to set that section to C#m.

Because you have set this to C#m, the system knows how to read the existing notes and you can play ANY key you want after that, lets say that you want to play that intro then in F major, then that works also and all the minor thirds will be automatically played as major thirds.

So there is absolutely no need to convert everything to Cmajor.

If you want to have a more in-depth explanation of how arrangers do this you could watch my creating styles tutorial for the korg pa5x. Although my pa5x tutorials are for the korg, a lot of the concepts explained in those tutorials (like for instance the polymeter arpeggiator pads) can also be done on the yamaha arrangers once you know the theory behind it.

in this tutorial I explain how to create styles from cubase midi files on a korg pa5x, It's not interesting for the people here, but the section that starts at 19:45 explains why you can use any key
with the note translation tables. So maybe that is something that you can use to understand why you can set it to any key.

that tutorial can be found here and skip to 19:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9PP4o0cdE0

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Robinez

I think i have a handle on it now.
So converting songs to play correctly they have to be in the key they were originally made and as you say the machine knows where to go when playing chords after you have gone that route.
Am i in the ballpark now?
This Genos program will also make your life easier as making styles using Cubase is a little long winded.
I am still waiting for my Genos 2 and the wait is agonising. Hopefully this week , but it is what it is, patience.
The wait also has been so long for a decent stylemaker.
It is always essential to know the ins and outs otherwise i will be floundering

All the Best
John and thank you very much for your time to explain, much appreciated.

Ps I will also take the time to learn the programs nuances!!

[Des O]

Hi Robinez

I think i have a handle on it now.
So converting songs to play correctly they have to be in the key they were originally made and as you say the machine knows where to go when playing chords after you have gone that route.
Am i in the ballpark now?
This Genos program will also make your life easier as making styles using Cubase is a little long winded.
I am still waiting for my Genos 2 and the wait is agonising. Hopefully this week , but it is what it is, patience.
The wait also has been so long for a decent stylemaker.
It is always essential to know the ins and outs otherwise i will be floundering

All the Best
John and thank you very much for your time to explain, much appreciated.

Ps I will also take the time to learn the programs nuances!!

Hi John,

It is hard to get your head around at first but this programme is a lot more easy and successful once you start to see what going on by trial and error in some cases. The assumption about Cmaj in my experience is based on when your create styles in Genos that everything must be in C. It has been explained that it is not always the case.
Other programme I never got my head around them as even my first attempts failed but with this way much better, in some case you can create a style in under 10 mins! with minimal effort and depending on the complexity of the midi.
All I do is check each section is in the key I want, test each one with my keyboard input and double check before saving, and even mess with the melody lines (active for main etc) and walla! even major melodies going on in the background in some cases.
Some bar lengths need changing in some, no big deal and intros/endings extending and breaks.
This programme makes it a lot quicker and enjoyable than ever, recently I spent more time creating styles than actually playing! Its a case of what can I do next?
The only trouble I have found, perhaps some instruction required is changing the octaves in some channels, not had much success with that yet.

Maybe Robinez could help with that if he is willing to do a part 2?

Keep at it and it will just click! the eureka moment!

I have also found it save some work if its cleaned up before I load a file, load a midi into PSRutti and click XG, that takes out unwanted notes etc in seconds and then change the whole midi if required to the key you want or play in by clicking Transpose in seconds.
save it, then I move it into Yamaha Megaenhancer and it recommends what changes to make to the voices for Genos to save doing changes in Midi to Style later, and sounds much better when you first here it in Midi to Style. No time at all just a couple of minutes.



Des

[maarkr]

As a new SX900 owner and learning the ropes for building/importing songs, I thank you for your informative video. For one,  I get confused and need to learn more about the use of key signatures in the instrument and the midi sections.  I also was wondering if there is a pdf manual explaining the Section/Channel/Zone Setting details?
Edit: nm I found the manual in the app duh, but a version 2 of the video would be informative.

[Al Ram]

Forum Friends,

I do not really user midis, however, this concept seems very interesting to me.

So, trying to learn from this video tutorial . . . . . . . struggling a bit . . . . . but still trying . . . . .

can someone please tell me how or where to get the 3 midi files that are mentioned in the video tutorial ? (including Piano Man and the other 2).

It will be greatly appreciated.   thanks in advance.

[valimaties]

Al Ram, you don't need exactly those 3 midi files. Take a midi file, any of what do you have, and try creating a style from it using this software. The video describes what can happening when using different complexity midi files. Take the video as a generic style creation from a midi file tutorial, nothing more than that!

Regards,
Vali

[pjd]

The new program is wonderful, but I suggest a little reading about what is in a Style file and so forth. I recommend the Style Creation Course at Jørgen's site:

http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/docs_specs.htm

There is a lot to learn and assimilate about styles even with the new tool.

Hope this helps -- pj

[rattley]

Hello!

It was only a few months ago I started learning about CASM. Which was only a few months after I even attempted using Yamaha's  onboard StyleCreator. Somewhere I read that Yamaha's CASM functions very secretly and is solely proprietary. They made it sound  like "Yamaha" doesn't want anyone touching this trade secret. Of course that just made me more curious. Since the release of this Midi to Style program everyone now wants to make their own styles. Is there any real Artificial Intellegence going on here or are these CASM rules set in stone?  Are the results of every conversion going to be exactly the same each time??  Are there any decisions being made or is it a purely "go or no-go" situation?  Lately, besides my Genos 1, (Genos 2 coming next week maybe) I've been studying the styles on my Ketron EventX. It's onboard stylemaker lets you change things without having to go as deeply into the program than Genos. It's refreshing to see another companies methods of style construction. You really are never too old to learn........if you want to!!  -charley

[Des O]

Hello!

It was only a few months ago I started learning about CASM. Which was only a few months after I even attempted using Yamaha's  onboard StyleCreator. Somewhere I read that Yamaha's CASM functions very secretly and is solely proprietary. They made it sound  like "Yamaha" doesn't want anyone touching this trade secret. Of course that just made me more curious. Since the release of this Midi to Style program everyone now wants to make their own styles. Is there any real Artificial Intellegence going on here or are these CASM rules set in stone?  Are the results of every conversion going to be exactly the same each time??  Are there any decisions being made or is it a purely "go or no-go" situation?  Lately, besides my Genos 1, (Genos 2 coming next week maybe) I've been studying the styles on my Ketron EventX. It's onboard stylemaker lets you change things without having to go as deeply into the program than Genos. It's refreshing to see another companies methods of style construction. You really are never too old to learn........if you want to!!  -charley

Hi Charley,

The new programme is simple to use and does succeed more than fails determining styles, you can adjust lengths octave etc and doesn't need that much input as long as you have a good midi to start with.
I've had more success with this than any other first time creating, once you get the hang of it you can create a style in minute or remake as much as you want and adjust In depth. I think most who use it love it.  Each creation is never the same, some easy other complex, your choice really. Enjoy working with it and it will give you good pleasurable results.

Des

[pjd]

Hello!

It was only a few months ago I started learning about CASM. Which was only a few months after I even attempted using Yamaha's  onboard StyleCreator. Somewhere I read that Yamaha's CASM functions very secretly and is solely proprietary. They made it sound  like "Yamaha" doesn't want anyone touching this trade secret. Of course that just made me more curious. Since the release of this Midi to Style program everyone now wants to make their own styles. Is there any real Artificial Intellegence going on here or are these CASM rules set in stone?  Are the results of every conversion going to be exactly the same each time??  Are there any decisions being made or is it a purely "go or no-go" situation?  Lately, besides my Genos 1, (Genos 2 coming next week maybe) I've been studying the styles on my Ketron EventX. It's onboard stylemaker lets you change things without having to go as deeply into the program than Genos. It's refreshing to see another companies methods of style construction. You really are never too old to learn........if you want to!!  -charley

Hi Charley --

Yamaha does not publish the internal data representation of most anything. The good folks on the Forum who have contributed software had to work out the details themselves by looking at binary data and performing experiments to determine the purpose and placement of data items. They deserve a round of applause.

One reason why Yamaha is so secretive is competitive advantage. They are well-aware of knock-off competitors. For example, they recently won a copyright infringement suit against Medeli keyboards.

The CASM format is set in stone -- until Yamaha decides to change it some day. CASM data has a hidden version number, so if a change is made, the newer software can detect the older format.

The conversion program does not use AI (as far as we know). I'm skeptical of most claims of AI use. It's being oversold and the term is being misused by suits to sell products.

I would expect the results of conversion to be the same every time.

Yep, competition is beneficial to customers. Keeps engineers on their toes.

Hope this info helps -- pj