Next Keyboard. Yamaha or Korg

[mikf]

There will always be something else coming along in a year ..or two..or whatever. You can only make a decision today based on what you know today, what the options are today, or what your needs and desires are today - not what might or might not be the case at some unknown point in the future.
Mike

[Danny1972]

One thought that makes me hesitant is that the Korg's pa1000 has been out since September 2017 and is a new model will likely due next year ?

Thoughts ?

Hi keystar,

I am also very eager to see an update to this keyboard as it's well overdue. The fact that Korg hasn't released an OS update since early 2020 for it and that it's been over a year since the Pa5x was released could indicate that a replacement is on the cards but of course it's just a guess and these are the only indicators so far. A mini Pa5x would be really great.

[BogdanH]

@Keystar
Mike is totally right with his rational thinking.
And you have an important advantage: you're happy with your keyboard and so you can afford to wait and think what is the best for you. When some new better keyboard appears on market, there's always a wish to have it. Just try to resist "wish to have fever", take a deep breath and ask yourself: did you exhaust everything what your keyboard offers? Would your playing be better with new keyboard?

I have SX700 for four years now. Although I'm an average keyboard player (far from best), I'm trying to use all features that keyboard offers (creating styles, creating voices, etc.) and let me tell, that I'm still learning how to do this or that and I discover something new all the time. Allow me to generalize a bit: if there's something that can't be done on SX700, then that's probably impossible on Genos as well.
Yes, there are better keyboards than the one we have... but sometimes we need to exit buying race 

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[mikf]

Once you get to a reasonable level of keyboard, it becomes like buying a new car. It's nice to have a shiny, new, latest model if you can afford it.  But 99% of the time you will be doing exactly the same things you did in the old one - driving to work, driving to the store, picking up the kids, putting in gas......
Of course if your current one is clanking along, got torn upholstery, still has manual everything, or is covered in rust, that's different... 
Mike 

[DrakeM]

Once you get to a reasonable level of keyboard, it becomes like buying a new car. It's nice to have a shiny, new, latest model if you can afford it.  But 99% of the time you will be doing exactly the same things you did in the old one - driving to work, driving to the store, picking up the kids, putting in gas......
Of course if your current one is clanking along, got torn upholstery, still has manual everything, or is covered in rust, that's different... 
Mike

Exactly, you up grade your car when you are to embarrassed to drive it to work. But now that I am retired, I'm lost as to when to upgrade. 

[Des O]

Give it a year or 2 then you can bet Yamaha will bring out a baby Genos 2. Just like they did with genos 1 and the SX900 etc.

[Keystar]

Thank you everyone for your valuable inputs. Honestly I was expecting this kind of responses, ie can't wait forever to get what you really want to buy as there'll always be better and upgraded versions. I would have given the same answer if someone else was asking the same question.

I guess I needed some push to press that buy button as it is a major purchase for basically a man toy. Another reason for my hesitation is I already have a Yamaha arranger, wouldn't it be great if I
can get a Korg which will give me the best (for me) of both worlds ?

[Amwilburn]

I've been playing a sx700 for a couple of years and love pretty much everything about it, so much so that I've been so tempted by the reduced price of the Genos here to about $5,000 + tax Canadian. The Genos is 2 levels above the sx700 and I'm almost certain that I'd love it even more. I'm a 80% home player with occasional shows at the senior homes and private parties. I don't "need" to upgrade but....

One thought that makes me hesitant is that the Korg's pa1000 has been out since September 2017 and is a new model will likely due next year ? It'll in theory still be a lower tier than the Genos but will a new design and updated technology and likely $1,000 cheaper make it worthwhile to wait ?

Thoughts ?

Thoughts, it's a shame you're not nearby in BC. Because then I would've mentioned to you it's even better than you think; unlike Yamaha who uses a different chipset from their TOTLA vs their midrange (contrary to popular shorthand, the SX900 is not a baby Genos, although it does use the same GUI and a similar OS). The sx900 is actually based on a stripped down T5 (no SA2 sounds) but with the addition of Revo compatible live drums.

But Korg? Did you know that Korg PA700/1000/PA4x are all the exact same chipset? And the PA1000 even comes with an incredible set of onboard speakers (among the best I've ever heard on a portable).

I would've also mentioned that the PA4x launched May 2015 in Canada, then the PA1000/700 launched April 2018, which means barring parts supply chain issues, I'd expect a similar PA (what will they call it? PA1100?) that uses the exact same chipset / sound libraries as the PA5x, but not until mid 2025.
Same thing had previously occurred with PA900/PA3x.


If you were nearby, anyway

Mark

[Keystar]

Thoughts, it's a shame you're not nearby in BC. Because then I would've mentioned to you it's even better than you think; unlike Yamaha who uses a different chipset from their TOTLA vs their midrange (contrary to popular shorthand, the SX900 is not a baby Genos, although it does use the same GUI and a similar OS). The sx900 is actually based on a stripped down T5 (no SA2 sounds) but with the addition of Revo compatible live drums.

But Korg? Did you know that Korg PA700/1000/PA4x are all the exact same chipset? And the PA1000 even comes with an incredible set of onboard speakers (among the best I've ever heard on a portable).

All good points. The Genos has been on my wish list for the longest time and I'd kick myself later if it gets sold out before I pull the trigger. I suppose I can get it now and when a new Korg pa1000 or SX900 model becomes available, I'll have the option to sell or trade it in for the new model. With such a heavy discount (more than $2000 savings) now, the depreciation should be acceptable.

I would've also mentioned that the PA4x launched May 2015 in Canada, then the PA1000/700 launched April 2018, which means barring parts supply chain issues, I'd expect a similar PA (what will they call it? PA1100?) that uses the exact same chipset / sound libraries as the PA5x, but not until mid 2025.
Same thing had previously occurred with PA900/PA3x.


If you were nearby, anyway

Mark

[sjmarano]

Hello Oldden,

I think a lot will depend on which one you would feel more comfortable with. Which Yamaha portable keyboard to you have (or had) as I didn't see you mention it.

I have the Pa5x along with Genos and I am comfortable with both, the biggest reason for this is that I've owned both a Korg and a Yamaha in parallel for many years so I can switch between them easily. But if I only had Yamaha's then switching to a Korg, there's a lot to consider and it can feel daunting, maybe even if it was the other way around. As a keyboard though, the Pa5x is really nice and I think you'd get along with it because the new OS is a lot closer to how Yamaha's function. The last major update really added a lot of content too, styles, sounds and mutltipads as well as some more features and I am hearing another big update is due at some point. Actually there was an update a few days ago which I will check out later after work but I think it's only some fixes and a few additional features but I don't know what yet.

Hope you don't mind me jumping in with this request for advice.  I am strongly considering acquiring either a PA5X or a Genos as my first arranger and as a complement to my Yamaha Motif XF8.  Given your experience with both keyboards,  what would you personally recommend between the two?  If it helps in providing a recommendation,  I also frequently use a Mac that has a pretty extensive set of VSTs (e.g. Omnisphere, Kontakt).  So my thought was that it might be better to focus on which instrument has better functionality and UI for creating and modifying styles and arrangements as opposed to voice quality?   But I would really like to get the insight of someone with significant hands-on experience with these high end arrangers.

[pjd]

Hope you don't mind me jumping in with this request for advice.  I am strongly considering acquiring either a PA5X or a Genos as my first arranger and as a complement to my Yamaha Motif XF8. 

Can't comment about the Pa5x. I play both MODX and Genos. Having two Yamaha keyboards, I often compare voice/effect programming on each and re-create sounds where the other is lacking. This is especially effective with effect programming and parameters. I'm pleased to have both.

I find it easier to create and/or edit MIDI song files for Genos (and its XG architecture) than MODX. I edit using a DAW (Sonar or Cubase) as I find MIDI editing to be tedious on Genos. BTW, I have and played MOX -- also tedious for MIDI editing.

Sorry that I can't answer your question about Genos vs. Pa5x UI and so forth.

All the best -- pj

[Gunnar Jonny]

....Sorry that I can't answer your question about Genos vs. Pa5x UI and so forth.

Neither can I, but it's popping up more videos, and this guy is not too much entusatic after unboxing the the new G2......
Never the less, I'm probably going to replace the G1 as well in not too long, but first I'm eager to test out my new Pa5X that's shipped and under transport in this direction. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvPEXgu7I0w

[sjmarano]

Can't comment about the Pa5x. I play both MODX and Genos. Having two Yamaha keyboards, I often compare voice/effect programming on each and re-create sounds where the other is lacking. This is especially effective with effect programming and parameters. I'm pleased to have both.

I find it easier to create and/or edit MIDI song files for Genos (and its XG architecture) than MODX. I edit using a DAW (Sonar or Cubase) as I find MIDI editing to be tedious on Genos. BTW, I have and played MOX -- also tedious for MIDI editing.

Sorry that I can't answer your question about Genos vs. Pa5x UI and so forth.

All the best -- pj

Thanks, PGD!  Your comments are most welcome.   So if I understand one of your comments correctly,  you might as the need arose modify the Genos's style settings to utilize sounds on the MODX in lieu of those on the Genos?

[kiplis]

I was anxiously waiting for the live performance of the new Genos2, and the "wow" effect. After watching for about 10 minutes or so,
I realized that the G2 is just G1 with a little bit of camouflage, but nothing essentially new.
I was actually thinking of ordering a new Genos2, basically because the G1 represents about 10 years old technology and I assumed
that the G2 would bring something new to playing, but no, not even a new plastic boxes AKA "speakers". 
Well anyway, after the video demonstration, I decided to put a price tag on the G1, and I've already sold the keyboard and won't be
ordering G2.
I've been thinking about the Korg PA5X-76 model, but I've been told that the keybed (Fatar?) is weak, and the other buttons are also bad?
I was also considering Ketron Event keyboard, but I don't trust the manufacturer and there isn't really any customer service.
I have previously owned Technics, Ketron Solton, Tyros 3&5 and recently Genos, but now choosing the next keyboard is really difficult.

Maybe I'll get a Medeli AKX10 for fun, and wait to see what happens in the market, or I'll switch completely to Midi soft VST instruments.

Any advice?

[cyber swine]

I've been thinking about the Korg PA5X-76 model, but I've been told that the keybed (Fatar?) is weak, and the other buttons are also bad?

Be careful what you listen to  .  The PA5X 76 keybed is far from "weak".  Everything is subjective to individual taste but I find that personally I am preferring the feel and touch of the Korg to the Genos.  There are doom and disaster merchants on every forum and it takes a lot of reading and patience to weed out the attention seeking trolls and the uber enthusiastic fan boys and eventually find a balanced view!

[BogdanH]

...
I've been thinking about the Korg PA5X-76 model, but I've been told that the keybed (Fatar?) is weak, and the other buttons are also bad?
...

I try to follow constructive discussions about arrangers not only for Yamaha and I must say, that I never seen any negative comment about Pa5X 76/61 keybed keyboards. There were one or two cases where 88-key (=hammer action) version had a failure (some keys were "clanking"), but I take that as an exception -at least for now. I'm talking purely about quality of the keybed, which has nothing to do with if someone likes the keys feeling or not.

Being at keys feeling.. I tried Genos and Pa5X 76key side by side and I must say that I personally prefer Genos keybed, because of two reasons:
1. Pa5X keys are a little more stiff (keys require more push). That is, Genos keys are closer to my SX feel: Genos has slightly stiffer and obviously better than SX keys and that's the reason I prefer Genos keybed. The difference is not a deal breaker, because one can adapt to new feeling rather quickly.
2. Pa5X keys are a little wider than Yamaha's.. or to put it correctly: Yamaha uses narrower than standard keys. The conseqence is, at beginning it can happen that you miss keys. But again, that's only because we're used to Yamaha keyboards -as usually, with practicing we adopt new keys width without thinking.

My personal opinion is... both (Genos and Pa5X) have good keybed and so the decision (which one to buy) shouldn't be based on keybed.

Bogdan

[Yama]

I tried the Pa5X (88) and found the keybed to be much noisier than even my old DGX670, that is why I returned it and waited for the G2. Now there is no G2 with 88 keys, So I think I may have to reluctantly go back to Pa5x 88. Has anyone tried the 88 version of Pa5x?

Otherwise, I will have to buy a practice piano (P525) and an arranger (G2) separately, or a combo of P525 and Native Instruments, VSTs, Mac and Cuebase. It is all too much to consider really...

Yama

[Danny1972]

Hope you don't mind me jumping in with this request for advice.  I am strongly considering acquiring either a PA5X or a Genos as my first arranger and as a complement to my Yamaha Motif XF8.  Given your experience with both keyboards,  what would you personally recommend between the two?  If it helps in providing a recommendation,  I also frequently use a Mac that has a pretty extensive set of VSTs (e.g. Omnisphere, Kontakt).  So my thought was that it might be better to focus on which instrument has better functionality and UI for creating and modifying styles and arrangements as opposed to voice quality?   But I would really like to get the insight of someone with significant hands-on experience with these high end arrangers.

Hi sjmarano,

No probs at all, you're not jumping in, that's what the forums are here for 

They both sound great but also different, however if that's not your main requirement and editing is, then I would recommend the Korg as it does offer deeper editing capabilities. The interface has been reworked on the Pa5x and now resembles the Genos in some ways rather than the more complicated OS from it's predecessors. There's quite a few YouTube videos on Pa5x editing, I've linked one below for you to check out if it helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JCaKdfEUFk

All the best,
Danny

[pjd]

Thanks, PJD!  Your comments are most welcome.   So if I understand one of your comments correctly,  you might as the need arose modify the Genos's style settings to utilize sounds on the MODX in lieu of those on the Genos?

You're welcome!

Ummm, no, if I understood your question correctly. MODX has no Style functionality as we know it on the arranger keyboards. I don't drive MODX with the Genos, for example.

Mostly, I edit voices. If I hear something on Genos that I like, I try to make the same voice/sound on the MODX. And vice versa.

Hope that clarifies -- pj

[sjmarano]

Hi sjmarano,

No probs at all, you're not jumping in, that's what the forums are here for 

They both sound great but also different, however if that's not your main requirement and editing is, then I would recommend the Korg as it does offer deeper editing capabilities. The interface has been reworked on the Pa5x and now resembles the Genos in some ways rather than the more complicated OS from it's predecessors. There's quite a few YouTube videos on Pa5x editing, I've linked one below for you to check out if it helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JCaKdfEUFk

All the best,
Danny

Thanks very much, Danny.  That was a very helpful video to judge how well the Korg style editing functions are designed.  I'm impressed. One last question:  I realize that judging and comparing the quality of voices between keyboards is a very subjective thing, but the one hesitancy I have about the PA5X is that it sounds like in most cases its acoustic sounds are not quite as realistic as on the Genos.  Do you personally find that to be the case?  And a related question:  if one wanted to, could a Korg style setting be modified to use a VST voice they might really like on a computer or even a voice available on another connected keyboard?   

[Danny1972]

Thanks very much, Danny.  That was a very helpful video to judge how well the Korg style editing functions are designed.  I'm impressed. One last question:  I realize that judging and comparing the quality of voices between keyboards is a very subjective thing, but the one hesitancy I have about the PA5X is that it sounds like in most cases its acoustic sounds are not quite as realistic as on the Genos.  Do you personally find that to be the case?  And a related question:  if one wanted to, could a Korg style setting be modified to use a VST voice they might really like on a computer or even a voice available on another connected keyboard?

Hi sjmarano,

I can't really pick which one sounds more realistic as I like them both equally. The experience I have is when I am playing the Genos, I get mesmerised in it and I think it's the most beautiful and realistic sounding instrument, then I play the Pa5x and feel the same about that too. So really I can't choose!

However here's a couple of videos that gives a decent comparison between the two that may help you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlSj0jwU5CU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2M1begz-ds

[sjmarano]

Thanks yet again, Danny!  I truly appreciate your responses and those of everyone else here.  Normally I would not ask questions about voice quality which of course is highly subjective.  But the challenge with these top-of-the-line arranger keyboards is that it is next to impossible to find any dealer who carries them on the floor for demo purposes.   So I basically have to rely upon YouTube and forums for insight.

[BogdanH]

hi sjmarano,
Even if you could compare keyboards in store, you could end up with a wrong decision. The thing is, there's usually not enough time (not to mention that you're disturbed by other customers or staff) and so it's impossible to detect important differences. For example, I tried Korg Pa5X in store (for few minutes) and it sounded like my SX700 to me -which is obviously wrong impression.
It takes days to judge the sound quality.. and that's why honest opinions from those who actually use keyboards of interest, is so important.
Being at that, I don't really trust Youtube keyboard comparisons that are made by stores.. because keep in mind: they only wish to sell what they show.

Greetings,
Bogdan

[Amwilburn]

Yeah, we're down to several new G1's then we can't get anymore.
$4899 canada wide right now! Get em while you can!

I'm seriously considering one myself, since my main hope for the G2 was tons more expansion space. I was hoping for at least 5G in fact :1

[pjd]

Yeah, we're down to several new G1's then we can't get anymore.
$4899 canada wide right now! Get em while you can!

I'm seriously considering one myself, since my main hope for the G2 was tons more expansion space. I was hoping for at least 5G in fact :1

Genos1 is a really fine instrument. (Keeping mine.)

Really, the transition from one product generation to another is a great time to buy a gen-1 instrument. I'm using that strategy for CSP.

BTW, Mark is at Tom Lee Music in Vancouver BC. He may be too shy to say so. 

-- pj

[kiplis]

Congrats on the Pa5x Boys; I'll see you on Korgforums.

I still love the Genos, but the Pa5x is a different animal and that's exactly what attracted me to it!

Best of luck with your new keyboards!

Hi,

it seems that my 25-year journey with Yamaha instruments is coming to an end, and I'm moving to the Korg camp.
This site has been a really useful source of information and I will probably miss this site more than I will miss the Yamaha instruments.
Korg apparently has similar sites, but which one would make the most sense (reliable) considering the upcoming PA5x player?

[Danny1972]

Korg apparently has similar sites, but which one would make the most sense (reliable) considering the upcoming PA5x player?

I have no idea but if you do find one anywhere near as good as this forum please let me know!

[Gunnar Jonny]

Korg apparently has similar sites, but which one would make the most sense (reliable) considering the upcoming PA5x player?

Here is one to try:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=90

and the Pa4 section:
http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=75

Korg Forums Main page: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/index.php

[Keystar]

Yeah, we're down to several new G1's then we can't get anymore.
$4899 canada wide right now! Get em while you can!

I'm seriously considering one myself, since my main hope for the G2 was tons more expansion space. I was hoping for at least 5G in fact :1

With some help from my fellow Yammies I finally got the push I needed to put in an order for a Genos 1. 😄 It was shown as "in stock" when I ordered from the Cosmo Music's site (Richmond Hill GTA) but I just checked on the order status and it was shown as "out of stock" and the earliest I can get it would be Dec 5th. 😒 That probably means they are selling fast ?

I chose the Genos 1 over G2 or PA5X/4X because I think it offers the best value, all things considered, especially for someone like me who's upgrading from a SX700.

[cyber swine]

Hey Keystar:  Sounds like you made the right choice for your situation, the "1" is now a great deal.  Good luck.  Too bad about Cosmo,  they do stuff like that but it'll be worth the wait.