Does anyone know why we can't preorder in the US?

[GrannyRocks]

Hi Guys,

Evidently several of you have preordered in Europe and you also have demos scheduled. I can't find anything like that here -- not even a chance to preorder.

Do you know why?

Thanks,
Beth
a new member

[EileenL]

Hello Beth you don't say where you are but in the UK some of our shops are taking pre orders but we don't know the price yet.

[mikf]

I think the sales set up is quite different in the USA. The dealer network for arrangers is much stronger in Europe with highly informed keyboard sales staff. And within reasonable travel distance for most of the country.
In the USA you find that for pianos/Clavinovas, but not portable keyboard arrangers.  The portable keyboards in USA are  largely sold on-line or thru general music instrument shops (like the Guitar Center) where there is little knowledge on arranger keyboards. In fact not much knowledge about anything ... they are order takers.
Mike

[Lee Batchelor]

I think the sales set up is quite different in the USA. The dealer network for arrangers is much stronger in Europe with highly informed keyboard sales staff. And within reasonable travel distance for most of the country.
In the USA you find that for pianos/Clavinovas, but not portable keyboard arrangers.  The portable keyboards in USA are  largely sold on-line or thru general music instrument shops (like the Guitar Center) where there is little knowledge on arranger keyboards. In fact not much knowledge about anything ... they are order takers.
Mike

True enough, Mike but it's also because Canada and the US don't even receive new stock until WAY after the release date. Europe gets first choice of new stock. There are some huge dealerships in both our countries but when they don't know when orders can be fulfilled, there's no point in making promises they can't keep. I believe I got my Genos 5 weeks after its European release 6 years ago.

[GrannyRocks]

Thank you, all. Yes, I'm in the US, and I apologize for not having said so. I am definitely getting the idea that arrangers are more appreciated in Europe. Frankly I loved my original Genos. The sounds were totally fantastic. I just had terrible problems with the keybed. There wasn't enough key travel for either control or comfort. I am quite disabled and I haven't been able to play many digitals. I have much better luck with pianos, which often have lighter actions and softer landings -- especially the really large grands. I am just hoping this Genos has a new action, because I love it. Thanks for the information.

[usaraiya]

In the US, Frank @ AudioProCT is taking pre-orders and you should get it in 2 weeks.

Frank A. Ventresca  Owner
AudioProCT
260 Old Gate Lane, Milford, CT 06460
(203) 806-5555
audioproct.com
frank@audioproct.com



Uday

[GrannyRocks]

Thank you. I will follow up with him. I have a concert December 10, and I would love to be able to see if I can get going with it in time. I really need to know his return policy too because it just might not work.

Again, thank you.

[mikf]

I would be surprised if the keybed on the new Genos is very different from the current one. If you like arranger functions and piano feel, you might look at a DGX 670, which is very reasonable price, or the much more expensive Clavinova.
Mike

[GrannyRocks]

I have tried a few other Yamaha digital keyboards, and I found them stiff, including the Clavinova, which is of course not a gigging instrument, which I am looking for. I appreciate your thoughts. I'll just see though. I would like to try just to be sure. I don't give up easy. By the way, I find the Casio privia psx-6000 to have a really good action but small keys, and I like the Roland PHA4 action, which I have in my Fantom 08. But of course they are not arrangers and they DO NOT have the beautiful instruments, especially saxes and flugelhorn and more that the Genos has. I want to be open. Someone did recommend a dealer here. If you have someone else, let me know. I'm not obliged to buy it even if I preorder. Thanks.

[mikf]

True enough, Mike but it's also because Canada and the US don't even receive new stock until WAY after the release date. Europe gets first choice of new stock. There are some huge dealerships in both our countries but when they don't know when orders can be fulfilled, there's no point in making promises they can't keep. I believe I got my Genos 5 weeks after its European release 6 years ago.

Lee, I think the two things feed into each other. No stores with keyboards to try and knowledgeable sales people means no stimulated demand, which in turn means no piano stores see portable arrangers as worth having.
Mike

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

I think Yamaha are missing a trick by making the USA and Canada wait.
What a huge market USA and Canada is. 

[Toplayer2]

I agree with Mike's endorsement of the DGX 670.  I sold my Genos and purchased the DGX based on the 88 note action and superior piano sound. There was a rumor last summer that the new Genos would be offered with an 88 note version like the PA5X, but sadly this now looks doubtful. 

Joe

[AndrewKeyz]

I agree with Mike's endorsement of the DGX 670.  I sold my Genos and purchased the DGX based on the 88 note action and superior piano sound. There was a rumor last summer that the new Genos would be offered with an 88 note version like the PA5X, but sadly this now looks doubtful. 

Joe

I thought the combination of weighted keys with keyboard functionality would be great but I thought there was actually something not quite right with the PA5X 88 I had compared to the Genos.
Hard to explain exactly what it was. I found the split point for example (chords and where you start playing melody) not as instantly obvious. Also using the modulation wheel and pitch bend etc seemed clumsy with so many keys. Too much of a stretch where these were located, but maybe if you have longer arms this isn't a problem.
Just a few observations but there were other things I would say.

If Yamaha would put a Genos 2 out with similar key options like Korg: 61, 76 and weighted 88, I would personally be more inclined to go for 61 or 76 with a secondary weighted keybed underneath if I had to have it as well when playing the odd piano parts.

Just thought this was interesting as sometimes something in practice isn't necessarily what you expect it to be in theory.

[Lee Batchelor]

Lee, I think the two things feed into each other. No stores with keyboards to try and knowledgeable sales people means no stimulated demand, which in turn means no piano stores see portable arrangers as worth having.
Mike

I completely agree, Mike. The laws of supply and demand are universal in the business world.

In Canada, we have a huge music store chain (51 stores) named Long and McQuade (L&M). They stock millions of dollars of instruments and sound gear, including huge quantities of Yamaha products. Their bigger stores stock several makes of synths and portable keyboards. They don't stock acoustic pianos per se, although some of their stores may carry a few. I'm not sure of that latter point. They tend to leave the Clavinova, acoustic pianos, and baby grands to other stores who target that market. So, Genos, Tyros, DGX, and PSR keyboards have been on their radar for at least 35 years.

That being said, as soon as new release synths and arrangers are available in Canada, they stock up. Their bigger stores have at least one employee who specializes in synths and arrangers. Yet, they can't get stock for at least 5-6 weeks after the rest of the world gets their stock because for some reason Yamaha puts them at the bottom of the list. Upper New York state received their first Genos keyboards 5 weeks ahead of mine. I live across Lake Ontario 48 km away. I'm sure L&M could sell newer arrangers and synths if Yamaha would extend the courtesy of giving us some darn stock! I've talked with my rep at L&M when wanting to buy the next release and he gives me the same line each time, "We can't get them because Yamaha hasn't sent any to Canada and we don't expect them for at least another month or two." Meanwhile, across the lake they have oodles in stock 🙄.

Why should we be treated as bottom feeders of the music world when we are credited for some of the most successful and iconic players in the world? Even worse, why do Yamaha execs who receive their new releases long before paying customers, flaunt their new keyboards to the same people? End of rant.

[pjd]

Thank you, all. Yes, I'm in the US, and I apologize for not having said so. I am definitely getting the idea that arrangers are more appreciated in Europe. Frankly I loved my original Genos. The sounds were totally fantastic. I just had terrible problems with the keybed. There wasn't enough key travel for either control or comfort. I am quite disabled and I haven't been able to play many digitals. I have much better luck with pianos, which often have lighter actions and softer landings -- especially the really large grands. I am just hoping this Genos has a new action, because I love it. Thanks for the information.

Hi --

Thanks for asking and welcome to the Forum!

Just a few points. I also ordered my Genos from Frank at AudioProCT. Quite happy with the process.

I understand your feelings about the Genos keybed. There are certain keyboards which affect my arthritic hands more than others. Do you have physical limits on overall weight? (You mentioned gigging.)

Mike's suggestion about the DGX-670 is a good one. If you would like to go a little bit more up-scale, there is the P-S500 "portable" digital piano. "Portable" is in quotes because, like the DGX, it ain't light.

The P-S500 is the "portable" version of the Yamaha CSP series with simplified front panel. One needs to use the Smart Pianist app to access all of the P-S500 voices and features. (The CSP series pianos are more limited yet.) The P-S500 has voices and styles that are on par with the PSR-SX700.

Just a thought -- pj

P.S. I have a CSP-170 on order and have studied this to death. 

[pjd]

"We can't get them because Yamaha hasn't sent any to Canada and we don't expect them for at least another month or two." Meanwhile, across the lake they have oodles in stock 🙄.

Hi Lee --

I feel your pain, too. The U.S. isn't a bed of roses, either, with respect to arranger keyboards.

Fortunately, when I lived in Massachusetts, I could drive down to AudioWorksCT in Connecticut to try T5, Genos, and Korg. Otherwise, fuggedaboutit. I could find the occasional S/SX series arranger -- never, EVER, Korg. Living now in the Seattle metro area and it's an arranger desert.

So, I see why Yamaha is launching in Europe. The interest by European players is palpable. Why launch or push early sales in North America when willing people are waving money around in Europe?  I'm a capitalist through and through, and definitely get the attraction.   

I also get why Clavinova pianos are sold through "piano dealers" instead of GC. GC is oriented toward combo instruments . Folks with kids -- or serious pianists -- don't want to deal with howling wannabe guitarists playing the "Smoke on the Water" riff over and over again.  If you're plunking down 4, 5, 6K or more on a digital piano, having some Bösendorfer or Schimmel shine on the Clavinova feels good.

Retail is weird, but they play us like fish -- pj 

[GrannyRocks]

Hi pjd,

Thanks for writing and for the warm welcome. Have you managed to play the original Genos, despite your arthritis. I kept trying but was so frustrated with the pain and lack of control. I have a digital keyboard, whose action works for me. In fact, there are two. One is the Casio Privia px-s6000, and the action is really good, but the keys are a little short, which makes it easier and lighter to carry, but a little harder to play. But it's good and it's got built-in speakers which are okay for playing at home for myself. The other is the Roland action PH4, which I bought on the Fantom 08. These both have 88 keys are a lot closer to a light piano action than anything else I've tried. So I have that covered. The piano is pretty good on both of these as well, much better than the piano on the original Genos, in my opinion. But I miss the sounds of the Genos -- the sax, the flugelhorn, some of the awesome sounds. I'm tempted to try again, even though it killed me the first time. Crazy, Right? Carrying it is not an issue for me, because I am quite disabled and don't carry anything myself. My husbands has to do it all, and he's in pretty good shape, but 79 years old. So that's always a factor. And then there's the bench, the stand, the speaker, etc. It's a lot for him. Thanks for your thoughts, though. But unless they have the Genos sounds, I'm not tempted.

[pjd]

Have you managed to play the original Genos, despite your arthritis. I kept trying but was so frustrated with the pain and lack of control. I have a digital keyboard, whose action works for me.

It's a lot for him. Thanks for your thoughts, though. But unless they have the Genos sounds, I'm not tempted.

Hi back --

I have and play Genos (gen 1). I'm OK with the Genos keybed (AKA "FSX"). It's weird, but I definitely get hand pain with some of the lighter key actions, like the PSR-E series.

I just went through the process of playing a gazillion digital pianos mainly to identify ones with good tone, good response and non-fatiguing. Eventually settled on the Yamaha NWX action (and ordered a CSP-170). I can definitely relate.

As to lifting, I've herniated just about everything. Can't lift heavy keyboards or PA speakers anymore. Verboten. Hope you guys stay healthy! Seriously. 

I understand your want for Genos voices as I love them, too. When playing out, tho', I gig with an MODX, which is about the level of an SX700/SX900. But, it all depends upon personal need.

Wish there was a module -- pj

[GrannyRocks]

Me too. Then I could use the Roland keybed. The problem with the Genos keybed is that it is shallow and you hit the bottom really easily.  I have tried to play lightly, but that has not helped. I also don't have the nuance control that you have on a piano. It's so hard to get everything in one package. Thanks for writing and relating.

[Amwilburn]

Hi Lee --

I feel your pain, too. The U.S. isn't a bed of roses, either, with respect to arranger keyboards.

Fortunately, when I lived in Massachusetts, I could drive down to AudioWorksCT in Connecticut to try T5, Genos, and Korg. Otherwise, fuggedaboutit. I could find the occasional S/SX series arranger -- never, EVER, Korg. Living now in the Seattle metro area and it's an arranger desert.

Our all in 1 store is just 3 hours north of you lol
It's worth checking out, you've seen snippets of our store on YouTube.

Maybe pop by for a visit next time you're going on an Alaskan cruise!

They do Europe first because it's closer, and has the *significantly* larger market for arrangers.

Mark

[Lee Batchelor]

Our all in 1 store is just 3 hours north of you lol
It's worth checking out, you've seen snippets of our store on YouTube.

Maybe pop by for a visit next time you're going on an Alaskan cruise!

They do Europe first because it's closer, and has the *significantly* larger market for arrangers.

Mark

Quite agreed with you and pjd. Still, no excuse. They seem to change their attitude when the stores here FINALLY get stock and we wave cash in Yamaha's face. Then their glad to see us. Meanwhile, we sit and watch review after review from owners who get there's months ahead of us. It still sucks.

[pjd]

Our all in 1 store is just 3 hours north of you lol
It's worth checking out, you've seen snippets of our store on YouTube.

Maybe pop by for a visit next time you're going on an Alaskan cruise!

Poaching sales from the States, eh? 

Be careful what you wish for.  You'll have to listen to my hack playing -- same old four chords over and over again.

We almost jumped on the train to Vancity last summer. Can't remember what happened. [Seniority.] Would've been hard to bring a DP home on the train... 

Take care -- pj

[Amwilburn]

Poaching sales from the States, eh? 

Be careful what you wish for.  You'll have to listen to my hack playing -- same old four chords over and over again.

We almost jumped on the train to Vancity last summer. Can't remember what happened. [Seniority.] Would've been hard to bring a DP home on the train... 

Take care -- pj

Oh heck no, that's too much bother (plus like I said, you're better off getting one from the same country you live in for warranty service)

I meant just come by and see a store that *has* Steinways, Bostons, Yamaha grands within spitting distance of CVP, CSP, and arranger workstations (I have the Genos and PA5x about 30" apart)

And the CVP909 about 2 feet away from both.

[pjd]

If I worked there, I would sleep in the back room and have food brought in. 

-- pj

[Amwilburn]

If I worked there, I would sleep in the back room and have food brought in. 

-- pj

You *absolutely* would.

Somedays I spend an extra couple of hours at the store after work, especially if the Mrs is working late to practice and record a YouTube vid, etc.

Plus there is an insane amount of world class food nearby (We've literally gone to Japan for the Michelin star Ramen and Michelin recommended katsu, Vegas for the Michelin star steak house (Gordon Ramsey of course) and several countries in Europe just to find the best food. And Vancouver, as "boring" as our city is (there's no Disneyland here), what we do have is gorgeous scenery (although people in San Diego do, too) and top international foods, including 9 Michelin star restaurants!

I'm sorry but meal at the top of the Space Needle is way overpriced, and the dry ice adds nothing to the dessert :/

What we *don't* have is affordable housing