ePianos Genos 2 Event with Peter Baartmans

[Danny1972]

https://www.epianos.co.uk/yamaha-workstation-event/?fbclid=IwAR0dqlHnaDsswfsSLNELuT969KeNjNFZtC0mbupOfSdMNsbQTqRb6H5Q22Q_aem_ATq9_oYCvbavPNi6w1uTjP__KSqYQOaOsXHNwpA3WjUkj2R-N60NcWC_YaKbUebqXwPWNgag71DqMr_WPUNi9og7

They are also taking pre orders.

[Oxford1035]

https://www.epianos.co.uk/yamaha-workstation-event/?fbclid=IwAR0dqlHnaDsswfsSLNELuT969KeNjNFZtC0mbupOfSdMNsbQTqRb6H5Q22Q_aem_ATq9_oYCvbavPNi6w1uTjP__KSqYQOaOsXHNwpA3WjUkj2R-N60NcWC_YaKbUebqXwPWNgag71DqMr_WPUNi9og7

They are also taking pre orders.

Just ordered mine 😁

[Danny1972]

Just ordered mine 😁

Nice one 👍

I'm thinking about it. All that's stopping me is how much I'd get for my 1 year old Genos that's in immaculate condition after buying it new.

[Oxford1035]

Nice one 👍

I'm thinking about it. All that's stopping me is how much I'd get for my 1 year old Genos that's in immaculate condition after buying it new.

That's the difficult bit, not knowing the value of our trade ins. I got mine when they first came out and it's like brand new. Your only problem I think is it won't matter how old it is, but the fact it's also in new condition is the important part. I've seen lots of speculation with some people they think it'll only be worth £1500 as a trade i. Personally I think it'll be quite a bit more than that, especially as according to another post the new Genos might be around £4500 with speakers.

[mikf]

But brand new Genos 1 is going for much less than that. Do the math, the dealer needs a mark up, and there needs to be a good differential between your 6 year old model and a brand new same model. Somewhere between 1500 to 2000 seems about right.
Mike

[Divemaster]

The current Genos 1 will follow the age old rule of supply and demand.It applies to anything you sell. You can't ignore depreciation and newer technology.

It doesn't matter what you paid for it. It's how much a buyer will give you for it.

Personally I think the age of the keyboard is the most important factor. 6 years old, like it or not, is 2017...Does a buyer want a 6 year old instrument... I wouldn't. Just being honest and realistic.

Buyers will just walk away if you overinflate the price. Look at Ebay to see this in action. Sellers putting ridiculous prices on keyboards like 10/15 year old Tyros ones, which will not sell and are often there for months. Be realistic.
Your potential buyer isn't remotely interested in how much you paid for it. It's irrelevant. You'll never recoup what you spent. To the buyer it's a 2nd hand keyboard. Price it too high and your buyer won't buy. Keyboards are 10 a penny... Wise up!

Obviously, condition is very important, even the lightest damage is not helpful, and can well be a deal breaker, and having the proof of purchase helps. But be realistic.
As a New buyer, you got a New product, complete with a full Yamaha warranty.
Personally, again, I'd only buy a 2nd hand instrument from a known good dealership because they would offer a warranty. Buying privately is a minefield. Gigged keyboards may have had the life thrashed out of them, and sellers aren't always truthful!

I reckon Mike's estimate will be about right for all the reasons he's stated.

Keith

[Whitecolin11]

In fairness Epianos usually give a decent p/x ,however the p/x which will be around 2k seems easier to swallow if you have had the keyboard 5 years rather than one.
Also the buying power of the dealer, how many units they order will make a difference to what they can offer.
So E pianos have a £250 deposit to reserve your keyboard, but they dont`tell you the price or your P/x which is a big leap of faith for many.
If its true on the 15th, the people  attending the demonstration can leave with the keyboard, then the price should be transparent.
My opinion is, unless Yamaha score a home run on this keyboard, this will be the last top end arranger that Yamaha does

[andyg]

My opinion is, unless Yamaha score a home run on this keyboard, this will be the last top end arranger that Yamaha does

Interesting thought. Yamaha's marketing experts will be looking at what they see the market being in four or five years time and basing decisions on that. But I have no doubt that my good friends in Yamaha R&D are already working on things like a PSR-SX950 and a Genos 3!

When I was in R&D I was sometimes working on something two generations ahead, even though the technology would actually have to catch up with our designs!

[ton37]

I agree, one can weigh a possible purchase of the Genos2 against that thought (successor SX900), at least I do 

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Mr Oxford from Mr Swindon
Yes, i also ordered and put a deposit on at E-Piano's today.
I will collect mine when the time comes as i do not trust couriers today.
The thing is that the Genos 1 is nearly 6 years old, so it does not matter what the prices will be.
To my knowledge you only live once unless you are James Bond.

All the Best
John   HAPPY BUNNY!!

[andyg]

To my knowledge you only live once unless you are James Bond. HAPPY BUNNY!!

Or The Doctor!

[Dnj]

It's funny they are calling this "THE EVENT"  which is the same name of Ketrons New Arranger  ;)KB..

[EileenL]

The Event is what is taking place with the demonstration. It is NOT the name of the keyboard which is Genos 2.

[mikf]

I decided to head into the city yesterday and visit my keyboard dealership, something I hadn't done for about 5 years, expressly to try a CVP909. But they still hadn't received one despite being advertised on their website. Does this bode well for delivery of the Genos2?
The second surprise was that the same salesman who has been there for years was still there. It was a quiet day in the store and we ended up having a long chat. He told me that he has been selling keyboards for over 50 years, and that in the early days it was mainly expensive home organs that were the rage. He said that then he used to love getting the latest models because every model was such a big step from the last and everyone wanted to upgrade. But now the differences were pretty marginal, in fact from what he has heard from colleagues I would be disappointed trying the 909, because it was so little different from the 809, or even the 709, and maybe not even that much from a 609. He said now it's more like selling pianos, nobody comes in to see what the latest piano model might offer and if they should upgrade the last model.
Mike

[mikf]

The Event is what is taking place with the demonstration. It is NOT the name of the keyboard which is Genos 2.

I think everybody gets that Eileen, dnj was pointing out the irony in the naming.

[Whitecolin11]

I echo some previous sentiments, back in the day I used to sell Yamaha keyboards, then suddenly their was a technical explosion
the b and c405 became a relic in the space of a year then the fe series then the hs series each one cheaper than the last but with double the features this made the previous models pretty mush worthless.
Another thing struck me they stopped looking like a piece of furniture and more like a computer. The quality of sounds stopped being as rich the speaker system not so good.
Not so long after that Yamaha stopped selling organs.
Now we have the arranger, six years have past but the overall sound quality and style quality can it really be that much better?
i think this will be an arranger/workstation hybrid, have huge flexibility compatible to the latest DAW software but not as user friendly and may miss the mark for generation x. Then we hit depreciation everything will be hit and like the organs before them
die off because of demand, we shall see.

[J. Larry]

I'm hoping a Genos 2 "junior" will show at 61 notes in the 2k to 3k range.

[AndrewKeyz]

https://www.epianos.co.uk/yamaha-workstation-event/?fbclid=IwAR0dqlHnaDsswfsSLNELuT969KeNjNFZtC0mbupOfSdMNsbQTqRb6H5Q22Q_aem_ATq9_oYCvbavPNi6w1uTjP__KSqYQOaOsXHNwpA3WjUkj2R-N60NcWC_YaKbUebqXwPWNgag71DqMr_WPUNi9og7

They are also taking pre orders.

Thanks for the link.

Requested a place for one of the demo slots. It's not too far for me.

Always wanted to see Peter play live. He's very inspirational and without him I probably wouldn't have bought the Genos.

[AndrewKeyz]

I decided to head into the city yesterday and visit my keyboard dealership, something I hadn't done for about 5 years, expressly to try a CVP909. But they still hadn't received one despite being advertised on their website. Does this bode well for delivery of the Genos2?
The second surprise was that the same salesman who has been there for years was still there. It was a quiet day in the store and we ended up having a long chat. He told me that he has been selling keyboards for over 50 years, and that in the early days it was mainly expensive home organs that were the rage. He said that then he used to love getting the latest models because every model was such a big step from the last and everyone wanted to upgrade. But now the differences were pretty marginal, in fact from what he has heard from colleagues I would be disappointed trying the 909, because it was so little different from the 809, or even the 709, and maybe not even that much from a 609. He said now it's more like selling pianos, nobody comes in to see what the latest piano model might offer and if they should upgrade the last model.
Mike

I think most people who do want to make music have moved onto using computers, DAW, Native Instruments etc.

Even then I think the market is probably a lot smaller than it used to be due to the massive jump in easy entertainment we have had (internet / streaming).

There was a big jump during the pandemic when people took an interest in playing an instrument again. Gear4music were hiring like crazy in the development discipline I specialise in.
Apparently they have struggled this year and made a loss.

I can't see the industry ever growing again due to all sorts of reasons (cleverness of computers / AI / cheap entertainment distractions / people being lazier and lazier in the west).
Maybe we will see a Genos 3 but beyond that, I'm not so sure we will see much happen that really pushes the envelope in this industry.

Enjoy it whilst it lasts.

[musicman100]

I can't see the industry ever growing again due to all sorts of reasons (cleverness of computers / AI / cheap entertainment distractions / people being lazier and lazier in the west).
Maybe we will see a Genos 3 but beyond that, I'm not so sure we will see much happen that really pushes the envelope in this industry.

Enjoy it whilst it lasts.

I think you are right. Just like the desk top computer they were getting better/faster/bigger Storage,etc every month or so. But now I hadly look to see any new developments since the computer I have does everytjhing I need. There are a limited amount of firms who make them now.

I think keyboards have reached that point!!

[mikf]

I don't believe it's a generational thing... it's an age thing. People get to middle age and wish they had learned to play a musical instrument, or if they learned young, wish they had stuck with it. These are the main people to whom the home organ, followed by the arranger, was very attractive. They will continue to exist, and the market grow overall, because everyone gets older, and they are more affluent than ever.  But like all markets it ebbs and flows with economic fluctuations.
There is a difference between that market and the people who want to produce (as opposed to live play music) music. That is typically a much younger segment and uses computer based tools. The manufacturers  of TOTL arrangers seem to have decided to merge these two things, but like Whitecolin says, that might be a product which satisfies neither group.
But clearly the basic arranger type technology is on the plateau phase, and I see it more like cars or computers. Manufacturers will always come up with ways to tart them up, and attract new buyers, but realistically my new car isn't that different from my old one. And most of us will still buy new from time to time, but like cars, most will probably not rush out to buy every new model release.  We wait till the one we have gets quite a bit older. The Clavinovas seem to be already there.
Mike

[BogdanH]

...
And most of us will still buy new from time to time, but like cars, most will probably not rush out to buy every new model release.  We wait till the one we have gets quite a bit older...

-exactly my thoughts.
Right now I'm totally happy with my SX700 and to convince me to buy something better, there should be more than only additional 22 LED's and two new sound effects.
Anyway, I do believe that there's a lot that can be (and is possible to be) improved in arranger keyboards. But we know how it is: manufacturers usually milk the cow till the last drop. But I'm patient enough to wait for improvements that matter.

Bogdan

[pjd]

But now the differences were pretty marginal, in fact from what he has heard from colleagues I would be disappointed trying the 909, because it was so little different from the 809, or even the 709, and maybe not even that much from a 609.
Mike

Sounds like you had a fun visit!

So true. The folks on the Piano World Forum sense only incremental changes from gen to gen -- whatever the brand. Yamaha seem to be investing in techniques that improve responsiveness, e.g., Grand Expression, and key actions. The basic sound generation is pretty darned good already (for digital synthesis).

Thus, I felt comfortable ordering an "older" model CSP at a reduced price.

I still hope G2 people realize their fondest dreams. [No sarcasm intended!]

-- pj

[Oxford1035]

Hi Mr Oxford from Mr Swindon
Yes, i also ordered and put a deposit on at E-Piano's today.
I will collect mine when the time comes as i do not trust couriers today.
The thing is that the Genos 1 is nearly 6 years old, so it does not matter what the prices will be.
To my knowledge you only live once unless you are James Bond.

All the Best
John   HAPPY BUNNY!!

Hi John, or if you prefer the formal Mr Swindon 🤣,

I was out having a lovely evening at a gig by a guy called Justin Daish, who does a show called Shadowing Hank (Marvin) Played all my Shadows favs and then headed home, when I found the email from epianos. I think I spent about 10 seconds talking to myself and thinking should I pull the trigger when I haven't heard or seen it yet, (it was a very long 10 seconds btw) but then thought I want one sooner rather than later and can cancel if it's not as expected.Don't see that happening anyway after a 6 year wait.

I'm like you, wouldn't trust a courier with something like a keyboard, so will be picking mine up as it's only 30 miles up the road anyway. Might bump into you if we get them the same day 👍

Kind regards,

Russ

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Russ
You never know. we might have to draw straws yet