Yamaha or Korg

[Divemaster]

If you haven't seen this Scannie.
I HAVE an SX700 .... Yes... It works just fine. Just follow the instructions I have sent you.

[Lacko]

Hi again Scannie


Now go to your SX, and put the memory stick into the usb slot.
Press the Expansion User button to the left of your screen, then press USB1
You can now see the contents of your USB drive.

Keith

I tried this and it works fine, just with one change. I had to press Playlist button on the right of the screen and then USB1. By pressing Expansion/User button I couldn't see that mfd file.

[Divemaster]

Great!
Glad you've got it. Now get down to some learning.
Any problems we are all here to help you.

Keith

[EileenL]

In saying that Tyros 5 did not have playlist but Music finder instead I did not say that they could not be converted to Play list on newer keyboards. Of course they can not be used in the same way as you did on Tyros and it can be a chore scrolling down all the files to find the one you want.

[Divemaster]

Hi Eileen.
Crossed wires obviously and I'm glad that Scannie has been able to work it out.
He's a complete novice, and I'm just trying to get him up and running, although I think he will benefit from some lessons.
No intention to be 'smart' as I know how very respected you are on the forums, and indeed helped me out when I bought mine. So please put it down to my eagerness to help this new member. I would never wish to offend.
Kind regards
Keith.

[Lacko]

Hi Divemaster,

it was me - Lacko - who successfully tried your advice on tyros5 conversion. As for scannie, we have to wait until he will post his answer.
But I have a question. When looking into that from tyros5 converted .tsv file, there is interesting file structure, like C:/REGIST/Tyros5MF/xxxx.....rgt Does really exist that Tyros5MF directory in SX700 with all corresponding registrations? Was it created during conversion?

[Divemaster]

Hi Lacko
Sorry for the confusion.... I'm 76 and my eyesight is not good.
YES... As part of the conversion, the SX automatically creates Registration files for the whole playlist.
So you can access those by pressing the 2 Registration bank buttons together. Makes searching much easier.

You don't have to limit yourself to one playlist. You can have several.

Hope that helps.

Keith

[mikf]

Just as a matter of interest, and returning to the nub of the thread, - is there anyone here on the forum who bought an arranger late in life with absolutely no previous musical knowledge and actually stuck with it long enough to  play, without going to one to one lessons, and didn't give up?
By absolutely no musical knowledge I include ....never went to lessons while young even on a completely different instrument, never dabbled with another instrument, never was able to pick out a tune on a piano, never played even a little a bit but not well and a long time ago .......
If that is you and you succeeded, maybe sharing how you did it might help the OP.
Mike

[Divemaster]

Good point Mike, and although I can both read music and use a rather strange alphabetical note system after breaking 4 fingers due to various growing up accidents, I will run this past you.

When I was young, we had a beaten up old foot bellows operated Harmonium given to us by a neighbour.
I used to play that completely by ear, and get some really decent music out of it.
But then came 'lessons' and my teacher Mr Payne literally beat that out of me. I HAD to play  from handwritten music and if I got a note wrong, I got whacked on the fingers with a ruler! See my performer page for the cruelty this guy meted out.

As a result I quite literally forgot how to play by ear.

If our op CAN play by ear, then I hope he succeeds, but as I sure you know, learning on an arranger is probably gonna be one hell of a learning curve.

But I hope we can all encourage him... Determination can be a wonderful thing.

Keith.

[mixermixer]

Hi Mike,

I think I fall under that category. Though I did take piano lessons when I was young, I eventually quit. I played in an orchestra when I was in school, I eventually stopped when I went to college. So I have some musical background but kinda reset myself to zero every time. 2017 is when I started dabbling on the arranger side with the S770. I forgot how to read musical notes so I would be lost if one was given to me, but I do read chords. I am basically a rhythm player, give me the chords and a sample of the song and I can try to replicate it. Now I have the SX900. On sundays I started a while back playing for a church as a synth/pads player reading off chords. Acmp wise, I record for a program that airs every tuesday for a youtube channel. My keyboard basically gets used every week.

[BogdanH]

hi Mike,
I'm not sure I fall into your category... so just in short:
When I was about 9 or 10 years old, parents bought me "toy accordion" which I was quite crazy about. Ok, keys weren't really on the right pitch, but I managed to play some simple children songs which I learned by ear. As my parents probably "smelled talent", they sent me to accordion music school, which I attended for about two years -just enough to learn reading notes and being able to play some more "serious" music. Finally, at age of twelve I lost interest and totally quit.
I bought some keyboard (also kinda toy) more than three decades later.. just for fun. However I was too busy, so I gave it away after few months.

My first keyboard was PSR-S670 which I bough sometime in 2019. Yes, I did remember how to read (basic) music notation, although that wasn't really of some help at beginning. And so my personal opinion is: having "sense for music" (and decent hearing) is crucial -ability to read notes can't substitute that. It's like... one can read french text, but he doesn't understand it But it's also true: to improve, it helps a lot if we start learning musical notes.. actually one can't avoid that.
Now I'm 64... So yes, if motivated enough, I do believe one can learn playing "nice" music without having musical education.

But... many expect the learning will come by itself, because they think it comes down to pushing the right button. Those usually quit after few months, I guess.

Bogdan

[scannie]

Hi Keith,

Thank lot for your help.
I tried but it went wrong.

You wrote

In the bottom box carefully click on Tyros5.mfd   (not tyros 5 txt).

When I download this file, the name is Tyros5MF.mfd, but I think it's the correct file.

But I can't see it in the SX700.

When I press the playlist button on the right side, it shows 6 items (factory default I think).
But after pressing list (add record) on the display the user map shows SX700 MF NL&BE and SX700_MFW
The USB1 map is empty
The Expansion shows 12 names, but the Tyros5MD.mfd isn't shown here too.

Where do I go wrong?

[Divemaster]

Hi Scannie

I think I can see what's gone wrong.....If not you'll have to delete the file from the USB and start again.

But try this.

Go to the screen where you can see the 6 preset songs that came with your SX700.

At the top of that screen it says SAMPLE

Press on the word SAMPLE

You will then have the option of choosing between PRESET or USER   Press USER followed by USB1.

You should now see the Tyros file in your list.

Press on that file, and then press Playlist.

That should give you the information you need.

Keith.

[richkeys]

Divemaster,

Question: When I converted the big Tyros MFD file on my SX900 last week it appeared to save automatically to my User memory. I'm not sure I was given a choice to save the new Playlist file onto the USB drive. Is that possible? I don't know much space the new playlist takes up in User.

Rich

[Divemaster]

Hi Rich.
The quick answer is that I don't know, because the file structure could be different on the SX900
I have an SX 700 and it saves direct to the USB stick. That's all I know.... Sorry.
I hardly use the User drive. It's easier, and I think safer to move stuff round on the pc with usb sticks.

I've only once ever connected my old Tyros direct to a pc and it blew the Tyros usb socket making it useless.... I ain't trying it again..I will never directly connect a pc to my lovely SX..

Keith

[richkeys]

Thank Keith. I had deleted the MFD playlist from my User, but wiil do the loading process again and will try to notice if USB shows up as a save option. Maybe I missed it.

Rich

[guitpic1]

I had a PA 4X for about a year.

Truth is I liked the PA 4X keybed better than any Yamaha keybed I had played including Genos.

I stayed with Genos, sold my PA 4X.

Why?

I'm a country music player.  I want the smooth sound of a lap steel.  Got that in the aloha steel of Yamaha

[scannie]

@Keith:  yes, you found out what went wrong.
Now it works, thanks a lot!!

[Divemaster]

Hi Scannie

Glad you got it working.
Take time to learn about your new keyboard
and learn some basic chords.

Keith

[scannie]

So I am that beginner with no music experience, though I have long had the intention to do something with it. Once I could borrow a Tyros 2 from someone, but didn't do much with it. The motivation was too low and I did not see how to start.
When I gave it back, the intention to do something with it started again. Now I finally bought the PSR-SX700. Due to lack of time not yet been able to spend much time on it.

The motivation is high, but on the other hand you do not want to do endless finger exercises.

There are apps like flowkey to learn songs, but that is only the beginning part of a song.

I want to follow the method below:
Use a midi file with a simple melody.
Turn off the melody from this and play it yourself.
Then use a style instead of midi and learn to play the chords together with the melody.

There is also a YouTube channel with music lessons for pianos. There are of course also chords. That will also get me started.

I compare it to learning a foreign language. In the beginning it's boring, learning words. But once you'll understand and talk some, it's fun.

Indeed, I wonder if I am not too old (56 years old) to start. But I do it for my own pleasure. So don't have to perform with it.

I do wonder to what extent it is possible to play directly from sheet music at some point. So read a note and without having to search for the key find it.

Suggestions always welcome

[robinez]

So I am that beginner with no music experience, though I have long had the intention to do something with it. Once I could borrow a Tyros 2 from someone, but didn't do much with it. The motivation was too low and I did not see how to start.
When I gave it back, the intention to do something with it started again. Now I finally bought the PSR-SX700. Due to lack of time not yet been able to spend much time on it.

The motivation is high, but on the other hand you do not want to do endless finger exercises.

There are apps like flowkey to learn songs, but that is only the beginning part of a song.

I want to follow the method below:
Use a midi file with a simple melody.
Turn off the melody from this and play it yourself.
Then use a style instead of midi and learn to play the chords together with the melody.

There is also a YouTube channel with music lessons for pianos. There are of course also chords. That will also get me started.

I compare it to learning a foreign language. In the beginning it's boring, learning words. But once you'll understand and talk some, it's fun.

Indeed, I wonder if I am not too old (56 years old) to start. But I do it for my own pleasure. So don't have to perform with it.

I do wonder to what extent it is possible to play directly from sheet music at some point. So read a note and without having to search for the key find it.

Suggestions always welcome

you are definitely not to old, it just takes dedication to learn these things.

Based on your story I would suggest to take a look to the platforms online that will guide you on your first steps. I didn't like Flowkey, but there are two other platforms that I found really good.
I would suggest to take a look at https://yousician.com/piano . you can start for free over there and it will learn you how to play melodies and chords without the need to learn how to read scoresheets (you can switch yousician to scoresheet mode if you want, but that is a little bit harder).

If you want to focus more on scoresheet reading, then I can highly advice https://pianomarvel.com/ for that. I have a subscription on pianomarvel and it's very good and helps you a lot, it's more like having a private piano teacher.

[Lacko]

I want to follow the method below:
Use a midi file with a simple melody.
Turn off the melody from this and play it yourself.
Then use a style instead of midi and learn to play the chords together with the melody.

I compare it to learning a foreign language.

Hi Scannie,
yes, it is like learning a foreign language. You can take a couple of lessons from language teacher to get some basic words, phrases and other knowledges and then study on your own by listening radio and reading books. Or you can go without any preparation to a country where that language is spoken. There is MIDI all around you and you can try to play your melody.
Sorry, if this is inconvenient for you, but this is just my view.

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Scannie :

I have uploaded all chords for you, if you might be interested. 

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/a033fc534b2e0df6170ce0915867253d20230512074353/7874a4b7b0821ea25b743945d124ce3d20230512080314/afcd07

All chord images are there. International language.
My above link is 5 days valid yet.
Have fun, JH

[Divemaster]

Hi Scannie
The best advice I can give you is to learn at your own pace, and in a way that suits YOU.

Ok, so it will take time, and it will also take effort.

So you're 56.?  That shouldn't be a hurdle. I'm 76 and still learning.  Ask questions, get answers.

Encourage yourself to do better every time you play.
Learn something new every week.

Just enjoy yourself. Life is too short to be worried about dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's.

Make music..... That's all that matters.

Keith

[BogdanH]

hi scannie,
If you have read my previous posts, then you sure noticed that my intention was to encourage you. On the other hand, you need to be realistic with your expectations.

..Due to lack of time not yet been able to spend much time on it...

-no idea how much "much time" is, but that can be a big problem! If you really are motivated, then you find "enough" time.. and if you can't do that, then you better forget the whole thing.

..The motivation is high, but on the other hand you do not want to do endless finger exercises....

-that makes me sceptical. You say you're motivated, but at the same time you say "you do not want to". Without even starting, how can you determine how much exercises you need?

As I (and some others) mentioned before, age is not that big problem for learning to play -it's the attitude. It souds to me like you were saying "if I can't learn playing in two weeks, then it means I'm too old".

There's no shortcut to learn playing faster and so forget styles and midis -start learning playing piano only instead. Can you sing or whistle a simple melody? If answer is no, then you should find another hobby, I think. Point being, you need to find out which keys to press on keyboard to get that melody. That's learning phase, which is followed by a lot of practicing. Luckily we have Youtube nowadays, so you don't need to learn reading notes (at least not yet).
Let's take famous Lara's theme for example (main part starts at 38sec in video). Of course you aren't able to play it that way and so you need to find simplified version: this one for example. Learn it.. practice and practice.. and once you play it fluid, you can start thinking about using style. What I am saying is, style (acompanion) is meant to be used for finished song, which you need to learn first.

When I play (practice) on keyboard, 90% of the time I play piano only. Sometimes it's only for half an hour or can also be 2-3 hours.. but it's mostly piano only. Usually I play simple random melodies (like Lara's theme) that I've heard somewhere. Not only I enjoy that, but that's also the only way to make your fingers feel at home on your keyboard -which is crucial.
And if there's a melody that really "moves me", then I decide to make a style for it. If you take a look at my videos (in signature below), then you can realize that all of them are pretty basic melodies that anyone can play. That is, I don't play "masterpieces" to impress others -I play for me.

Bogdan

[Jeff Hollande]

Hey Bogdan :

Making music,  starting from scratch is not easy, I guess.

Many people are very enthusiastic in the early beginning.
After a while the motivation has completely disappeared. It happens to 90% of beginners.

At my present age ( 75 ), after approx. 60 years making music, I am still learning every day.
The more I learn the more I realize how much I still have to learn.
Why ? The answer is quite simple for me : making music is my passion. I'm addicted to it ...

All of us are different ... it is what it is.

All the best, JH

[BogdanH]

Very true Jeff... we never end learning.

And it's really not about how good we get at playing -it's more about enjoying the hobby.
I think arranger keyboards can be quite deceiving for many, because they give an illusion of "everyone can do it"... which is far from truth. There's one thing that I already mentioned somewhere at the beginning of this thread: one just need to have "sense for music". It's something we just can't get with practicing -that sense is either there, or it's not.

Greetings,
Bogdan

[mikf]

Bogdan is largely right in what he says. The reason it's hard to play along with a style or midi is that they don't stop for you to catch up. No matter how slow you play them, you will still not be able to play in time when learning. Playing piano lets you go at your pace, including frequent stops to find the correct note.
And how will you find that melody - if you can pick it out by ear then you don't need a midi. If you can't, you have to learn the basics of reading music, then pick out the melody from a simple music sheet. In short, what is the midi adding?
When you get half way able to do this, then you need to start learning how to read simple chords, what notes make up these chords, then how to find those notes on the keyboard, and how to change chords quickly.
All this adds up to endless repetition  until it becomes mostly intuitive. Scales and arpeggios are a  good way of teaching your hands where these notes are. You can call that endless repetition exercises or something else, but you will be doing it, - or you will fail to progress. In which case the new keyboard will find its way to that same cupboard as the Tyros, within a year.
Mike

[Jeff Hollande]

Hi Guys :

From now on it is up to Scannie and find out what he really wants and expects.

If I were Scannie and I should be seriously motivated, like he says, I would follow one of mikf's wise advices and look for " a good arranger teacher " asap ( see Internet : teachers on line e.g. )  ... but .. who am I ...
to tell him what he has to do ?
Amen.

All the best, JH

[Divemaster]

Agree with all that's been said.
Being 'comfortable' when you sit down to play, and knowing where the notes are without looking down from the music is key.
I remember the first time I played a full sized organ. My tutor compared playing the pedals to driving a car. Do you, as a car driver, ever look at the pedals? No of course not. But this was a car with 36 pedals... and I was 11 years young.... But learn it I did. Constant practice, heeling and toeing, using the swell and coupler stop buttons etc .... So yes.... Being comfortable with notes and chords is a must for modern arrangers. Learning and constant practice is essential.

But the one thing that I could do.... Play by ear.... I cannot do any more.... Because it was instilled in my head that it was not acceptable /wrong. So I know from personal experience that a bad teacher is worse than useless. It kills the enthusiasm quicker than anything else.