Re: SX700 master keyboard volume reduced automatically

pjd · February 17, 2023, 07:45:11 PM

Hi --

I examined the voice file and didn't find anything unusual. It's a simple variation of the legacy JazzClarinet voice. Aside from a few minor tweaks to EQ, attack and release, the main sonic difference is that it plays one octave lower than the legacy JazzClarinet.

The voice file works fine on Genos.

I'm leaning toward Mark's idea. His knowledge of operation beats mine in this regard.

Have a good weekend, folks -- pj

Amwilburn · February 17, 2023, 07:50:45 PM

It's actually easy enough to test, if someone has a T4 (or a reg file from it with the KBD slider at max, 127).
Any value less than 127 lowered the RIght1,2,3 and left voice volumes in a separate paramater (like applying an expression to the volume)

So if anyone on a T4 can make a registration with the KBD slider at max, and it fixes his "volume won't got back up afterward" then yes, it's definitely the hidden KBD volume issue.

I no longer have any Tyrii here, so there's no way for me to even see if any of my old Tyros registrations have that value set to 127.
Anyone here have a Tyros with a KBD slider? I could send Murray some T4 registrations....

Mark
*edit*
I forgot to mention, same thing happens to me when I load my old "In the Air Tonight" registration for T4, since I had reduced the Right parts using "KBD" (since even the lead guitar was background compared to the singing), and as I can't find a way to move that slider on the Genos (since it no longer exists), all of my left and right parts are reduced in volume until I load a registration from the T4 with the KDB volume at max or shut off the board and turn back on.
Which means I have already an existing reg already with the KBD volume set to max.

Keyboard Master · February 17, 2023, 09:40:02 PM

One thought in my opinion is to go to the mixer and see if any of the sliders are set lower. if so turn them up higher.

Joe H · February 18, 2023, 12:43:23 AM

I believe the Keyboard Volume is actually Expression CC11. If the KBD Volume is changed by a registration you should be able to easily see that on screen. If the Keyboard Volume is less maximum, this will lower the Volume for all sounds on the keyboard.

One way to check the output of the Keyboard Volume to open MixMaster MIDI Monitor. It should record the output of the Keyboard Volume MIDI message.

Another thing you might check is the Master EQ. If all the knobs are reduced substantially, that would also affect the over-all volume of the keyboard.

Joe H

overover · February 18, 2023, 02:11:41 AM

On the SX900/700, the "Keyboard Volume" parameter can be assigned to a Live Control knob. I mentioned this in my second post above:
>>> https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,65422.msg496285.html#msg496285

@Dom
If the error occurs again, please assign the "Keyboard Volume" parameter to a Live Control knob (unless one of the knobs was already set to it by a Registration) and check whether you can bring the Keyboard Volume back to the normal value of 127 using that Live Control knob. If so, re-memorize each of the affected Registrations after manually resetting this value to 127 in each case.

@Mark
By the way, with the Genos, a setting option for the "Keyboard Volume" parameter was probably simply "forgotten" by Yamaha (firmware versions 1.02 - 1.10). But this was already added again with firmware version 1.20. "Keyboard Volume" can now be freely assigned to a Live Control slider or knob, but by default it is already assigned to Live Control slider #9 (if Assign type 1 is selected):

Genos Version History
[V1.10 to V1.20]
- ...
- A new LIVE CONTROL assignable parameter is available: "Keyboard Volume."
- The default settings of LIVE CONTROL slider assign type 1 are changed: the "Keyboard Volume" is assigned to slider 9.
- ...

Best regards,
Chris

dlepera · February 18, 2023, 09:40:39 AM

Chris, good to know, will do and keep you posted.

Regards, dom

Amwilburn · February 18, 2023, 04:33:02 PM

Chris: ah so they didn't completely forget about it. My Genos is still 2.02, but you're saying if i update to 2.11 I can see the KBD volume parameter again, good to know!

Joe: Keyboard volume doesn't show up as a parameter on screen (on the sx900, Genos, any of the current ones) hence the difficulty for the OP to know what was going on. I only remembered because I've made registrations on PSR2000/2100/3000 T1-T5, etc and I did use the KDB volume slider on 1 registration.
Or I should say it didn't show up, maybe it shows up now on Genos 2.11. My PSRsx900 *is* 1.11 (latest), also doesn't show it. However, as per Chris's suggestion, I *can* assign a live control knob to Keyboard Volume, which is the only way I've found to call it up.

Which would solve the OP's issue; (assuming I was right about the cause in the first place)

Why haven't I upped the Genos to 2.11? Still waiting to hear back if 2.11 registrations work on 2.02.

Keyboard Master: no, KBD is a separate parameter, so checking the mixer settings won't show anything. It doesn't move any of the mixer sliders, it was its own separate thing (which, as Chris has correctly pointed out, has now been restored to functionality by assigning the control knobs. Which I did *not* know!)

Mark

Joe H · February 18, 2023, 04:36:26 PM

Mark,

Thanks for explaining the differences between the S970 and the newer keyboards.

Joe H

pjd · February 18, 2023, 07:47:33 PM

Thanks, everyone. Genos is exactly as Chris and Mark have described. With KBD assigned to slider 9, one can inadvertently turn down (up) all of the keyboard parts and nothing shows in the on-screen mixer. Wow.

I had to scroll through the slider sets to even find KBD on slider 9. The default value is 100, in case someone needs to go back to the factory value.

Cheesh -- pj

dlepera · February 19, 2023, 01:45:13 AM

Hi Chris.
Not sure of the setting that you are expecting form my keyboard. I used Live Control Knob 1 and the only place where I can see anything related to volume is in the MIXER category. The function has volume and then keyboard volume that I can set. In my case from what i saw is that iether volume setting is the same and all this only controls the voice volume if I am doing this correctly.

I do see 127 as the max volume level if I play with the live control knob.. It does not affect the whole keyboard volume though, only the voices if this is the function of this control knob. The voice volume using the control knob 1 however only maxes out to the volume level of what I set the big volume knob/wheel( is this what they call the Master Volume btw).

I must be wrong but was expecting this to actually control the whole keyboard volume and give me ability to max to 100% regardless of what the mail volume knob/wheel setting. When my issue pops up, it's the whole keyboard volume that drops, styles, voices and pads

dom

overover · February 19, 2023, 02:19:43 AM

Quote from: dlepera on February 19, 2023, 01:45:13 AM
Hi Chris.
Not sure of the setting that you are expecting form my keyboard. I used Live Control Knob 1 and the only place where I can see anything related to volume is in the MIXER category. The function has volume and then keyboard volume that I can set. In my case from what i saw is that iether volume setting is the same and all this only controls the voice volume if I am doing this correctly.

I do see 127 as the max volume level if I play with the live control knob.. It does not affect the whole keyboard volume though, only the voices if this is the function of this control knob. The voice volume using the control knob 1 however only maxes out to the volume level of what I set the big volume knob/wheel( is this what they call the Master Volume btw).

I must be wrong but was expecting this to actually control the whole keyboard volume and give me ability to max to 100% regardless of what the mail volume knob/wheel setting. When my issue pops up, it's the whole keyboard volume that drops, styles, voices and pads

dom

Hi Dom,

The Live Control function "Mixer category > Keyboard Volume" only affects the keyboard parts (Right 1 - 3, Left). If EVERYTHING is quieter in your case, i.e. the Style volume as well as the keyboard parts, for example, it is not due to a (whatever) reduced "Keyboard Volume" value.

When you set the "Mixer category > Volume" function for a Live Control knob, you can specify at the bottom of the display for which Parts this knob should control the volume. I recommend ticking ALL checkboxes for testing.

As a test, please also assign the "Mixer category > Balance" function to a Live Control knob. This allows you to adjust the volume balance between parts A and B. You can select which parts belong to A or B in the pop-up window called up via [Balance Setting] at the bottom of this display.

Please also see the related information on pages 117/118 of the SX700 Reference Manual.

Best regards,
Chris

dlepera · February 19, 2023, 12:09:22 PM

Chris,

Looks like I am taking baby steps with this stuff buy not knowing the details of the settings.
I did the test that you suggested. Knob 1 Set to Category "Mixer" Function " Balance" checked what you suggested, in fact I checked everything that would accept a check mark. Then in the balance settings I selected the "A"s and "B"s not know again what this does since I can't understand what I am supposed to see or hear, I have no idea what to focus on. I did noticed that as I change registrations banks, these change from what I set them to. When I turn the knob as well I see going left A63>B and going right A<B63

One thing that I did not think of when I encountered the problem and know now, is going to other screen displays related to volume and part settings and getting their values at the time of the problem rather than just powering off and on the keyboard. One thing that I have noted now.

Again sorry for my lack of perhaps simple skills requirements to help in analyzing this issue but I am still new to the functions and features of this keyboard. I am still wearing my baby shoes,

All the best! dom

overover · February 19, 2023, 01:35:30 PM

Quote from: dlepera on February 19, 2023, 12:09:22 PM
Chris,

... I did noticed that as I change registrations banks, these change from what I set them to. ...

All the best! dom

Hi Dom,

This is exactly what I "feared" (that your Live Control settings would be unintentionally changed by Registrations). If the "Live Control" checkbox is ticked in the Memory dialog when creating a Registration, the current Live Control settings are memorized in the reg (and of course restored when this reg is called up later). To correct this you would have to re-memorize each of these regs without a tick on "Live Control" and then re-save the reg Bank as well.

Alternatively, you could work with FREEZE to avoid unwanted changes to the "Live Control" settings by Registrations:

- Make sure the Freeze button is turned OFF.
- Make the desired Live Control settings.
- Press "Direct Access > Freeze" to open the Freeze settings.
- Make sure only the "Live Control" checkbox is ticked here.
- Press Exit or touch the X icon to save Freeze settings.
- Press the Freeze button (LED is on) to lock the Live Control settings for the current session.

Hope this helps!

Best regards,
Chris

dlepera · February 19, 2023, 11:56:33 PM

Hi Chris.

This plot now thickens for me. When I check things out first of all my Registration Memory settings, from day one that I have started saving registrations on this keyboard, everything is checked off except MIDI song, Audio Song, Text, Assignable Buttons and Mic Setting. When I go back to all my Registrations and check out the behavior of the Control Knob and Balance stetting, any changes I make there gets overwritten by the Bank change. Is there really a problem with all my registrations? They have been playing well all this time with the exceptions of the new ones being suspect? If the knobs are set to something other than VOLUME controls what unintentional values would they generate?

I then went to a Registration Folder from the Forum to compare a good registration file and what you say is correct as the changes made to one of those Registration Balance settings did not change as I navigated through the banks. Of course I have no idea how to reset things back to what they were except to unhighlight all my light "A"s and "B"s. They even remained there after a power off/on of the keyboard before I unhighligted them. I was looking for something like a reset button to clear them all at once(not that there are many to clear anyway).

Just so you know which good registration file I used from the Forum for the good test scenario, it is a registration folder form the forum:

T5FB Registration(2016-0-04)/D/DJ-D2/DUSTY OLD DUST.rgt this registration is located in Page 8 - last page of registration listings of the sub folder DJ-D2.

So, with this all said and all my registration banks old and new and being saved with the "Control Knob" checked by default, I don't think that we still know what is causing my keyboard volume issue or are you saying that this could potentially be the root cause of my problem?

What Registration Memory boxes should be checked by default or recommended to be check?

Do I need to change my current Registrations following your detailed procedure and what would I gain
other than the ability(correct me if I am wrong) to just use a control knob for volume balance? If it is a
"must do" then I will do it.

I think I understand the affect now of how the Control Knob affects the "A" & "B". Where and when would I really need to use them as a non performer, and what value would they actually bring to the table for me?

I do use the Control Knob for other settings like style editing for example but never for volume or balance but 90% of the time the settings are defaulted to "Filter" and "Reverb"

I do appreciate all the information that I have gained and am gaining from this thread.

***** Just a Side Note, for consideration perhaps and would need it's own Post if it is a good idea *****
***** I thought it would be good to mention here while I am showing appreciation for everyone's help **

Not to sway from this subject, but just a comment for all it's worth. Yes I am sure someone will repeat that
I am too "trusting" but for what I am about to describe this forum has track history of individual character and supporters and anyone can be reviewed before engagement.

I wanted this (still would like it personally) when I first got my keyboard as I could not find any 1 on 1 training at any price on the use and exploitation of my keyboard. Only piano lessons and I don't read music.
1. Create a new board dedicated to 1 on 1 Training/Education session.
2. Anyone like myself for example would be able to post particular topic request.
3. Anyone with detail knowledge on that topic from the forum would then respond via messaging and
hook up with the requestor seeking that education/training session,.
4. An hourly rate, currency and transfer would be arranged between the two parties, the forum would
not be accountable for anything as the details would be handled by the two parties and I would think
things would be mutually beneficial. The forum would only be used a messaging vehicle for
engagement.
5. A Zoom or better still a Whatsapp session can be arranged and education would be in live mode.

Anyway, let's get back to the subject on hand.

Thanks Chris for the information and my options for correction.

Best Regards. dom

Amwilburn · February 20, 2023, 06:18:16 PM

Well yes, if it's set to "volume" rather than "Keyboard Volume", if you look at the knob assign screen, if all parts are checked it will kill the volume for the entire keyboard. Exactly as Chris described.

If your registration has "assignable knobs" unchecked, future registrations you create won't be affected by this, but unfortunately the registrations you already have, you can't tell if that knob is assigned or not from the registration until you call up the individual registrations

But yes, it's all as Chris described!

Mark

dlepera · February 20, 2023, 08:00:54 PM

Hi Mark.

So, if I understand this I should not have the Live control knob checked if it's assigned to volume?
In my case most of the registrations the Live control knob as stated previously is set to Filter so that should have no affect on the volume for that registration and banks in those cases.
If I do have registrations with the Live control knob set to volume then I have two choices according to what Chris said. Change the registrations which is easy enough to do or simply set the FREEZE on knowing that if I do this it can change some of my registrations if for example I may have a bank in the same registration with say a different Tempo, Pad, style, etc then I don't want them to be frozen to a previous bank setting. Am I understanding this correctly? And to answer a question in the latest post to Chris on the default for the Registration Memory, I am realizing now that there is really no default settings as that all depends on what I really want to memorize base on the components of that registration/bank that I want to keep.
This is good to know and while creating a registration may be a simple thing, there are a number of key things that must be considered let alone clearly understood in order to ensure that once a bank is recalled at any time that it reflects the initial intended construct.

If I am perhaps finally out of the weeds on this subject, then I only have one last question(again if I may), can this be the root cause to my initial issue or is this just one of the several contributors?

Thanks. dom

Amwilburn · February 20, 2023, 08:18:58 PM

Yes, that's all correct!

As for default settings, what I do? Everytime a new Yamaha with registrations comes in, I save the default settings into Memory 1 then save that file as "Default xxxmodel namexxx"

This *appears* to be the root cause

dlepera · February 20, 2023, 08:42:31 PM

Mark,

Good idea on the default settings. I usually save the originals when I get them to a separate USB & a backup of that USB for recovery if I ever need it(and I have had the need a few times) . I back up everything as a safeguard, as I have had a couple Sandisk USBs go south lately and with zero impact to me.

I am glad that we finally got to root cause.

I want to thank each and everyone who supported this post and put up with my lack of experience on this topic and appreciate the knowledge that I have acquired from all the feedback here.

Thank You! Thank you all!

Best Regards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dom