New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[AndrewKeyz]

Bonners in the UK appear to have the Event in stock right now.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

It looks like the UK dealers are usually the first people who are receiving the first new arranger shipments, right ?
JH

Time now for Yamaha to respond

[Duffy]

Yamaha have just updated YC Stage Keyboard series  FOR THE SECOND TIME whilst I have been hoping for a decent Hammond & Leslie for the Genos.
Their first update gave it a first class Hammond sound with realistic Leslie simulation and, with the new update, it gets 3 new Pianos, new EP's and other odds.

If they can give updates for the YC series, why can't they do the same for the Genos?
All I want is a Hammond & Leslie which actually sounds like one.

The original YC series Hammond was rubbish but they managed to put that right so, why are we waiting?
I think 6 years is long enough.

[soundphase]

If they can give updates for the YC series, why can't they do the same for the Genos?

To sell YC series to Genos users.

[AndrewKeyz]

A 61 key Ketron Event is on its way.

https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Ketron-EVENT-61/art-KEY0005802-000

Seems a bit of a lousy price difference / discount to opt for the smaller one at the moment. I guess people would only go for it if they absolutely need the compactness.

Bit strange there is still no Bonners demo from Tony. The Event seems to be out of stock there. Other stores seem to be getting the 61 key and the original 76 key back in stock in the next few weeks.

[Lee Batchelor]

If they can give updates for the YC series, why can't they do the same for the Genos?

That's called, "Shooting yourself in the foot." If Yamaha gave the Genos those new voices, I wouldn't even bother looking at Genos 2. Many other pro players may feel the same.

How Yamaha can provide such stellar orchestral voices, a half decent OS, and touch screen but such terrible primary voices is beyond me. Worse, when Genos 2 arrives, it will likely come with these voices upgraded but the price tag will be stupidly ridiculous. I'm considering my options at this time because I need really good B3 voices. The current ones are an embarrassment.

[Duffy]

That's called, "Shooting yourself in the foot." If Yamaha gave the Genos those new voices, I wouldn't even bother looking at Genos 2. Many other pro players may feel the same.

How Yamaha can provide such stellar orchestral voices, a half decent OS, and touch screen but such terrible primary voices is beyond me. Worse, when Genos 2 arrives, it will likely come with these voices upgraded but the price tag will be stupidly ridiculous. I'm considering my options at this time because I need really good B3 voices. The current ones are an embarrassment.

I get your meaning but, The YC voice upgrades were done a couple of years ago which means that Yamaha could have upgraded the Genos well over a year ago.
Although we have no idea, Yamaha knew definitely. that there was no new top of range board coming shortly and could have given us those voices as a goodwill gesture.
Fans would have appreciated the new voices but, by now, the novelty would have worn off and the fans would have been ready for the new Genos 2 from a company who had proved that they cared.

[BogdanH]

@AndrewKeyz
-thank you for pointing on this news.

I'm pretty sure it has the same functionality as 76 keys version (as is the case with Korg PA5x).
When deciding between 61 and 76 keys Event, price sure plays no role, because they cost the same high price. One would expect, that at least because of marketing reasons, 61 key version would be symbolically cheaper. Event 76 key version is already substantially smaller than Yamaha and Korg and so I really see no reason to decide for 61 key version.

Yes, I know some managed to get Event... but why would I consider a keyboard that is never on stock? Since ever I can read "In stock within 1-2 weeks" (or months), which never happens. The same is true for Korg, though. I mean... I'm not buying an Lamborghini 

@Lee Batchelor
I don't have Genos, so I can only talk about voices in SX700. My opinion is, that the same samples are used as a source, which are just differently executed (or "polished") -better on Genos of course, because it has more memory and more powerful hardware. Still, it's the source that determines fidelity (authenticity) of the sound. It's just a common sense that makes me thinking that way, because I can't imagine Yamaha would bother to record samples from the same instrument twice (one set for Genos and one for SX).

After saying that, I agree with you: Yamaha needs something better than just an "upgrade" in next arranger generation. And I don't only mean "new piano and sax".. complete voice set must be new. As it is now, I think that quite a lot of "main" voices are actually taken from XG/GM2 voices, with only different settings (effects) applied -because, as you said, some are just embarrassing.

Yes, I do believe that next Genos will actually be new arranger -it must be, because Yamaha has no choice.

Just sharing my thoughts,
Bogdan

[Lee Batchelor]

Great info guys. Thanks!

[Danny1972]

A 61 key Ketron Event is on its way.

https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Ketron-EVENT-61/art-KEY0005802-000

Seems a bit of a lousy price difference / discount to opt for the smaller one at the moment. I guess people would only go for it if they absolutely need the compactness.

Bit strange there is still no Bonners demo from Tony. The Event seems to be out of stock there. Other stores seem to be getting the 61 key and the original 76 key back in stock in the next few weeks.

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the post. I actually saw this last week but didn't bother posting it as I didn't think it was anything important as its the exact same keyboard but just 61 keys. This kind of disappointed me a little because they didn't do the same as the SD9 and SD60 (which I still own), whereby the SD60 is a 61 key version of the SD9 but also with speakers, and the amplification in the SD60 is tremendous, very powerful indeed (thing weighs a ton though!).

It looks like Ketron has gone down the Audya route where they created an Audya then Audya5 being the 61 key version but still without speakers. I think this may be because Ketron wants to show everybody that the Event is the true successor to the Audya and not the SD range, that's the sense I get anyway. I think Ketron will then make another new keyboard with speakers but still in the SD range, but I am only guessing.

Oh forgot to mention, I totally agree with you about the lack of demo from Bonners as before I purchased one from them I did ask if a Tony would make a demo and they said he would.

[Danny1972]

After saying that, I agree with you: Yamaha needs something better than just an "upgrade" in next arranger generation. And I don't only mean "new piano and sax".. complete voice set must be new. As it is now, I think that quite a lot of "main" voices are actually taken from XG/GM2 voices, with only different settings (effects) applied -because, as you said, some are just embarrassing.

Yes, I do believe that next Genos will actually be new arranger -it must be, because Yamaha has no choice.

Just sharing my thoughts,

I completely agree with you on this and it's how I am seeing it as well. I can't see any other way really. It will be intriguing to see what they do though. They are a huge company with so much resource so the potential is certainly there.

[Lee Batchelor]

I'm confident Yamaha will release a block-buster in the Genos 2 but I fear the price will be so far out of reach due to many of the world's issues at the moment.

As a sidebar, I find that the money paid to musicians (where I work at least) is way below par. This restricts how much we can budget for a new keyboard.

[Danny1972]

I am dreaming the Genos' successor will be a " NEW " arranger,  a significant difference compared to the latest models of the competition.
I am hoping it is not a dream but a fact.

Hey Jeff,

I doubt it would be significantly different to what's just come out, don't forget Yamaha would have been working on it for a while now and not just started working on it after the Pa5x or Event was released so perhaps I think a better description would be "comparable to" rather than "significantly different". It may end up not even being too significantly different from the current Genos!!! Although I hope that's not the case. You'll just have to wait and see!

Are you considering buying one then?

[Danny1972]

I'm confident Yamaha will release a block-buster in the Genos 2 but I fear the price will be so far out of reach due to many of the world's issues at the moment.

You know that is a very good point you make, especially if it will indeed be a monster of a keyboard, Yamaha could also charge a pretty penny for it, I think you're correct. It will almost be like you'd be forced to trade your existing Genos to actually come close to affording one. However, if it is significantly different from the existing Genos whilst also retaining some backwards compatibility, I will pre order it immediately!

[Danny1972]

Hey Danny :

Reportedly it is Ketron's intention to manufacture/add another new arranger ( in 2024 ? ) that would be lower in price than the Event 61n and 76n ( less bells and whistles ).
Not true or ... just a rumour ... I really do not know, sorry. 

Best wishes, JH

Well I think if Ketron are going to continue their trajectory, I don't think they would dump the SD series since the lower end (eg, SD7) is pretty much a mid-range that hasn't been replaced. The SD9/SD60 are flagships as is the Event so I would expect to see an Event-esq keyboard in an SD form with speakers and make it more affordable at around 2 and a half grand to replace the SD7. I would be surprised if they didn't.

[Danny1972]

As far as Yamaha's new high end arranger is concerned : a much higher price ? ( comparable to the price increase of the CVP 900 serie ? )

Best wishes, JH

I don't think anybody is able to truly say what the price would be, but I do agree with Lee that it could end up being a bit pricey. At the very least more than the other two recent flagships but maybe as much as a Pa5x 88 keys. Either way, if people want it they will buy one and find a way to buy it. If you are dreaming about such a keyboard then you must be wanting to replace your Tyros 4, maybe this will be the one for you !

[Graham UK]

For many years I have owned top end arrangers from Yamaha...Korg...Roland.
I have alway dipped into the OS Menu of every keyboard to obtain its better sound.
Now I play a DGX670 and I can honestly say I'm getting as much playing pleasure as I did from the past previous expensive arrangers.
Keeping it simple can be better for small price output.

[Lee Batchelor]

Graham, what would you do in the Genos OS to improve the sound of the organs, e.pianos, and regular pianos? I find I'm maxed out. Ideas? Thanks...

[Graham UK]

Lee. Sound as you know is so different to each person, we all hear differently.
I have been fortunate to work many years in sound.
On my DGX I always use my Ref Headphones (My preference)
Edit Master EQ in Small Amounts is the key.
Edit Master Compression (I use PUNCHY) ...Compression...Texture...Output & Set CMP To On. My DGX sounds vibrant.
Many 3rd party suggested adjustments are way over the top and can easily distort a keyboard pre-amp and output.
All keyboard brands provide a standard middle ground out of the box sound to enable the customer to set their own preferences but they never give guidance of what to adjust.
At Keyboard manufacturers demonstration people ask why does my keyboard at home not sound like that !.

[Danny1972]

If we listen to the music, played on a high end Yamaha arranger by Peter Baartmans ( during a dealer's demo e.g. ), the sound quality of his instrument is always so good.
Why ?
I cannot answer that question.

Same as if you listen to demos of the Ketron Event by Bartek Krzeminski, the keyboard sounds simply astonishing and the keyboard comes with no amplification and speaker options either so you have to use it through external amplification. It's the way they set it up and record the audio.

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Graham, Jeff, and Danny.

I thoroughly agree that professional live demos are sometimes processed off camera, likely through PEQ, compressors, and other processors. Baartmans is a stellar player but I can't help but believe he sometimes runs an additional audio prescore in background, which means the sound has been professionally enhanced. Yamaha uses their very best speakers and subs at these events, which adds to the clarity. In other words, what we hear at large demos is not achievable with the Genos alone.

The same thing happens with the Demo songs loaded onto the Genos. There are several MIDI tracks used to produce these songs. It can be done on the Genos MIDI recorder but good luck editing to that final audio stage.

Graham - I will try your suggestion of using the Punchy setting. Perhaps it will give some life to the B3s. I spent a few hours on the net last night looking at other keyboards I could add for better pianos, e.pianos, and B3s. I looked at Nord, Hammond, and Yamaha. Prices range from $2,500 to $4,000. I might wait to see what Genos 2 sounds like. If it works, I may be able to keep within that budget using my Genos as a trade.

Thanks guys!!

[Danny1972]

Apparently arranger manufacturers are obliged ( for their own benefit ) to show the best of their newest baby.

Only professional audio equipment will be connected and all these arrangers are played by professional musicians to persuade their potential customers the latest model is the best ever made.

It is what it is.
That marketing tool will never change, I guess.


JH

Absolutely, but with the added bonus of the demonstrators themselves being exceptionally talented as well. I also thought that Marco Parisi demonstrating the Korgs is exceptional as well.

[Danny1972]

The same thing happens with the Demo songs loaded onto the Genos. There are several MIDI tracks used to produce these songs. It can be done on the Genos MIDI recorder but good luck editing to that final audio stage.

Oh absolutely, I think this is far more noticeable in the older generation keyboards of the mid to late 80s until the mid 90s. Back in the day when I first got into playing keyboards the very first thing I used to show off the keyboard to someone was playing the demos because they seemed to sound so much more superior above the standard sounds and styles you selected, even if the demo were using the same styles. I remember the demos on the PSR9000 were really realistic and it wasn't until using a Tyros3 that I could say it had evened out a bit.

Nowadays as arrangers are so much more advanced we can just showcase the styles using the OTS settings is enough to wow people, but you're right, the demos still have that slight edge where you wonder how do I get that sounding like that!

[bpsafran]

To understand the built-in demos it would be very useful if we could extract the midi files of those, to see the voice, controller and effect settings.  Is there any way to do that ?

Sam

[Ryszard Bieszczad]

Another presentation of Event by Bartek Krzemiński - part 3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7ghFgoXqtE
Regards

[J. Larry]

I watched Event Part 3, but it doesn't convince me to give up my Yamaha.  Should Yamaha produce a new flagship, I'll be curious the check out the styles closely.  How realistic will they be?  Do the style programmers alone decide on the final choice of instruments and mix of each style?  For realism, I'd hope that Yamaha would consult with experienced recording engineers, producers, or mastering personnel for decisions on panning, reverb/effects, default tempo etc. to reflect what they might do in an actual recording studio, given the style under consideration.     

[Ryszard Bieszczad]

I also do not give up Tyros, which gives me a lot of satisfaction.

[Oxford1035]

l have been to a few of Peter Baartmans concerts, and Peter is upfront and states he records additional tracks to enhance the performance.

Russ

[Lee Batchelor]

l have been to a few of Peter Baartmans concerts, and Peter is upfront and states he records additional tracks to enhance the performance.
Russ

I thought so. He's still a stellar player but I think Yamaha should insist on him playing the raw Genos. That's borderline deceitful because many users don't realize he's using additional tracks.

[Danny1972]

I watched Event Part 3, but it doesn't convince me to give up my Yamaha.  Should Yamaha produce a new flagship, I'll be curious the check out the styles closely.  How realistic will they be?  Do the style programmers alone decide on the final choice of instruments and mix of each style?  For realism, I'd hope that Yamaha would consult with experienced recording engineers, producers, or mastering personnel for decisions on panning, reverb/effects, default tempo etc. to reflect what they might do in an actual recording studio, given the style under consideration.     

Hello,

Why would someone want to give up their Yamaha anyway just because of another keyboard regardless? Unless one is a keyboard nut (or as Rikki always loves to say a Keyboard Junkie  ) that has to have them all, then sticking one with brand should be the way to go regardless especially if someone has created a set up over many years and could easily port it across the new models from the same brand. I would expect nobody on this forum to have swapped from Yamaha to Korg or Ketron, I'd be very surprised if any have.