New TOTL Arranger from Ketron

[ton37]

Thank you for your reply @hammer. Do you use the SX900 together with the SD40 module (in connection)? Or SX900 apart and the SD40 apart (with another keyboard?)?

[Jeff Hollande]

As announced by Sokratis ( one of the Event's developers ), it is Ketron's intention to produce and sell ( in 2023 ? ) an Event module and a 61n light Event version.
The 61n version will have another brand name and might be available in 2024, said Sokratis.

The Event Module ( without keybed of course ! ) will have exactly the same Event's features.

In the past Ketron produced the Audya4 ( an Audya5 module ).   
The Audya4 has never been a commercial success in Belgium or in The Netherlands. No clew what the situation was in other countries.
The price difference between the Audya5 and the Audya4 was ( too ? ) small and musicians preferred the Audya5 ( with keybed ).

The Ketron history will repeat itself for the Event and its module, I guess.
As far as I know it ain't easy to sell a second hand expensive module.
JH

[BogdanH]

...Apparently it was/is much more a weight problem than a sound quality issue.

-what hammer is saying (the way I read his post) is: he sacrificed good sound for lighter SX900.

...Ketron's global market share has never been important compared to Yamaha's and even Korg's...

Market share tells nothing about quality -it only tells it's more affordable. As far I could observe, Yamaha practically doesn't exist in professional music scene (big live concerts). There, only Yamaha's synthesizers can be seen, but the rest of the keyboards are mostly Korg, Roland, Nord... or even Casio.

Ok, and now I will throw a "bomb" again: Yamaha arrangers only have mediocre sound quality because basically, nothing has changed much in past 20 years. All these "new" SA, SA2, Cool, Live, etc. voices are just artificially modified (tweaked, if you wish) voices from the past. That way we might only get impression of more realistic sound, but that's pretty much all. That is, I really hope Seattle orchestra doesn't sound as it does on Yamaha. Not to mention, that some voices don't sound even close to real instruments (i.e. tambourine is a plain joke -to name one).

Now someone might say, why I bough Yamaha if I think it's that bad? Well, "bad" and "good" are relative terms.. but my answer would be, I bough it, because it was affordable and it's more than good enough for me for having fun -however I don't fool myself by thinking it's "the best".
Support? If product is good, not much support is needed anyway. In that sense, waiting up to 3 months for simple on/off button isn't some great support by Yamaha either.

Just my view on this thread,
Bogdan

[Duffy]

Hi Guys :

I think I understand Deane's words better now.
Apparently it was/is much more a weight problem than a sound quality issue.

Cheers, JH

Not so Jeff,
The weight became a problem but Deane clearly says that he prefers Ketron's voices to Yamaha's.
I have used a Solton (former name of Ketron) for well over 20 years and I now also use a Ketron MidJay Pro with my Yamaha Genos and,
Dependant on what I am playing, I often use the Ketron voices more often than the Genos ones.
Some Yamaha voices seem more artificial or contrived and too dependant on Touch and I believe that is what Deane feels too.
We are all different and hear things differently and different voices in each keyboard vary so much so, it's a case of buy and play what suits you personally.
There is really no best or worst

[Sokratis1974]

As announced by Sokratis ( one of the Event's developers ), it is Ketron's intention to produce and sell ( in 2023 ? ) an Event module and a 61n light Event version.
The 61n version will have another brand name and might be available in 2024, said Sokratis.

The Event Module ( without keybed of course ! ) will have exactly the same Event's features.

In the past Ketron produced the Audya4 ( an Audya5 module ).   
The Audya4 has never been a commercial success in Belgium or in The Netherlands. No clew what the situation was in other countries.
The price difference between the Audya5 and the Audya4 was ( too ? ) small and musicians preferred the Audya5 ( with keybed ).

The Ketron history will repeat itself for the Event and its module, I guess.
As far as I know it ain't easy to sell a second hand expensive module.
JH

Hello.. So..
Guys, in order to avoid any misunderstanding, I would like to make the following clarification: I don't remember saying the specific thing about Event 61 and that it may be called something else. I honestly don't remember. Basically, I don't usually talk about the company's plans since I am prohibited by the NDA that I have signed. So I would like to say the following: A) For the Event Module there is a plan (as Ketron is used to with all its models) but I can't say anything more. As for Event 61 there is nothing there for now. This will be decided by the company when and if it produces such a model.
Thank you and my apologies if I said something by mistake that may have confused you.

[Bill]

Hi Sokratis

The reason you can't remember is that you never made the statement in the first place.

It's about time people stopped making such remarks about what other people said when they themselves are just making it up.

I think you are owed a very sincere apology.

I don't understand why people have to spend hours speculating- why don't they just wait and see.

Regards
Bill

[hammer]

It is interesting how people "read into" other's post.  Yes, for me the weight of TOTL keyboards became a problem.  But there is another reason for my changes-PRICE!  Regardless of quality of build, sounds, and styles there is not an arranger made by any company that is worth $5000.00 to me.  There is a point at which it is just not worth it.  Someone mentioned a possibility of an EVENT Module.  Well, that would be awesome I am sure but at what price.   Right now I am perfectly happy and well served by my PSR SX900 and my Ketron SD40 Module and see no reason to upgrade at today's prices.  The bottom line is simple-does what you own provide the things you need for our gigs if you play out.  Or, are you happy with your homebased setup and does it do all you need from it. 

Deane (Hammer)

[EileenL]

I agree Bill.
Sokratis did not make that statement. And I also think this type of thread dose not achieve anything. I understand it is nice for some to learn about competition so that if a member is interested, they can go to that particular forum and learn more. Keep going on about when things come out or who will bye one and what price it will be gets you no where.

   

[ton37]

It is interesting how people "read into" other's post.  Yes, for me the weight of TOTL keyboards became a problem.  But there is another reason for my changes-PRICE!  Regardless of quality of build, sounds, and styles there is not an arranger made by any company that is worth $5000.00 to me.  There is a point at which it is just not worth it.  Someone mentioned a possibility of an EVENT Module.  Well, that would be awesome I am sure but at what price.   Right now I am perfectly happy and well served by my PSR SX900 and my Ketron SD40 Module and see no reason to upgrade at today's prices.  The bottom line is simple-does what you own provide the things you need for our gigs if you play out.  Or, are you happy with your homebased setup and does it do all you need from it. 

Deane (Hammer)

Hi Dean, does this setup looks like you referring to (sx900 + sd40)?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YflRiACBhFw

[Jeff Hollande]

Dear Sokratis :

Subject : Event 61n wrong information.

I feel very sorry and would like to offer my sincere apologies for mentioning your name, realizing now it were NOT your words.
It has never been my intention to hurt a real gentleman like you.

Best wishes, JH

[Duffy]

Dear Sokratis :

Subject : Event 61n wrong information.

I feel very sorry and would like to offer my sincere apologies for mentioning your name, realizing now it were NOT your words.
It has never been my intention to hurt a real gentleman like you.

Best wishes, JH

Hi Jeff,
It's probably more my fault than yours for speaking for Deane when I should have simply given my own view.
My apologies to both Deane and yourself.
We probably shouldn't get so excited about different makes of keyboards, especially when they haven't even appeared yet.
All the best,
Duffy

[Sokratis1974]

No problem!!.. No problem dear friends!!

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Well to put the cat among the pigeons I have learn't that if i transitioned from the Genos to the Korg Pax 5, it would only cost me £1250 approximately.
Well you say that cannot be bad for a keyboard that is 5 years old for a trade in.

Is the Pax5 as good as the Genos in reality??

If Yamaha bring a new Genos out in two years time how much would the depreciation be by then!!!!

[BogdanH]

...If Yamaha bring a new Genos out in two years time how much would the depreciation be by then!!!!

There will always be "better" keyboard on horizon and so.. decisions, decisions 

Genos vs new Pa5X... 5 years difference... well, besides looking great, I assume Korg also has put some "nice to have" candies into Pa5X. The only question is, how desperate are you to have them -it's a serious question only you can answer.
Don't get me wrong, I'm quite sure that next Genos (or whatever name) will also have a lot of them. But so far there's not even a rumor about it... and one can't really play on something that doesn't exist.
Being an SX700 owner, it would be easier for me to decide (if I would won on lottery) -right now, it would be Pa5X. But you already own TOTL keyboard and so there should be some very good reason why you need Pa5X. Ok, sometimes one need to invent a reason -is also valid 

Bogdan

[ton37]

Well, when you trade it in it will cost you money anyway. But everyone knows that. That was probably also when you bought the Genos. How much someone is willing to pay for it is a personal choice. In any case, the additional amount to be paid will continue to increase. Prices today will be different in a few months. Hard to predict. This is due to inflation, supply and demand and the global economy, etc. etc. It has become a relatively 'expensive' hobby for most who want to buy a top keyboard, but many (but fewer) are willing to do so ...

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
From my point of view i play at home and go through Cubase .
What does the Genos really offer and the Korg Pax 5 offer which makes one better than the other
For me the saxes shine more on the Genos and that is about it for me.
I would like to know what a Korg owner experiences are using a daw such as Cubase.
I like the idea of smooth transitions.
In reality are Korg sounds more advanced than the Genos?
Is there a decent editing program for the Korg like sounds and styles etc??
Do you get style flac in Cubase you have to keep clearing out to get a clean backing.
Also i would like to know what the gain is like when gain staging in Cubase.
I must admit i have seen lots of videos on the Korg and a lot of the comparison videos and are very different.
We all know some put more icing on a sounds for a demo than others and it is hard to get a true perspective.

The Ketron has not got any outlets here in UK , only a base at Milton Keynes and a Corner shop in Northampton which looks like a run down off Licence.
Korg also have a base in Milton Keynes and plenty of stockists.

If Yamaha does not come up with a new keyboard in the next two years then i may have a big think.

[ton37]

It's very disappointing (and I wrote it politely) that Yamaha, as owner of Cubase, has so far refused to make a flawless integration with its keyboards and I doubt it will be with the new one. It seems to me that if you want to keep using Cubase, you will benefit more with a Yamaha than with a Korg. I think if it turns out that Korg would work very well with Cubase, then Yamaha will build a barrier there. Cubase, on the other hand, can make very nice wave samples for use in the Ketron. All a bit contradictory, but that's trade....

[Lee Batchelor]

I've thought the same thing for a long time, Ton. Genos integration to Cubase is (to be polite) pathetic. When the Motif series first arrived, integration was possible only after listening to a one hour video on how to do it. Otherwise, you had to be a Yamaha software engineer to figure it out. This deficiency caused a ton (no pun intended) of flack to be fired at Yamaha. They responded by creating an app that configured everything for Motif users with the press of a button.

If more people complained about this serious lack of Cubase integration with the Genos, perhaps Yamaha would do something about it. I wouldn't hold your breath though. They still look upon the Genos as a living room keyboard, when in reality, it could be a full production tool.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi

From looking around and and finding out things , it is best in my opinion to stick with the Genos.
There are no explanations on how you can do quick recordings using styles on the Korg. All they go on about is adding a midi file and making mp3's.
Everything is too sketchy.
Also i notice that the Genos has a more depthier drum sound, whether that is recordings given or a reality.
Yes it is nice to hear all about new keyboards but things just do not sound or sit right at the moment for me.
I love the quick record on the Genos and that does not exist on the Pax5.
The Genos does have an easier layout.


all the Best
John

[soundphase]

I've thought the same thing for a long time, Ton. Genos integration to Cubase is (to be polite) pathetic. When the Motif series first arrived, integration was possible only after listening to a one hour video on how to do it. Otherwise, you had to be a Yamaha software engineer to figure it out. This deficiency caused a ton (no pun intended) of flack to be fired at Yamaha. They responded by creating an app that configured everything for Motif users with the press of a button.

If more people complained about this serious lack of Cubase integration with the Genos, perhaps Yamaha would do something about it. I wouldn't hold your breath though. They still look upon the Genos as a living room keyboard, when in reality, it could be a full production tool.

Genos target market is "sit and play" players, very far from DAWs.

[Sokratis1974]

Hi

I know it is 4900Euros
Here you have a friend comment from my country.

<<<At this price, the keyboard is a joke.
1GB for samplers?
As 1.5 are for extorting money from users, probably through the sound banks sold by them..
Then, in the digital age, is there no digital audio output?
not even at Output Analog, it doesn't say that they are balanced...
... not even at the entrances.
Even the Medeli AKX10, a Chinese product, has 256 polyphony.
1280 user sounds, means about 10 banks of 128, but with 1 GB of sample memory... if you can't combine the internal oscillators with the sampler ones, in 2 banks you've finished the sampler memory.
Ah, I was forgetting...
Now, in Genos, I have 38 packages of 128 users..
And I still have about 700-800mb free...

And 4 layers per user sound, again, it's a bad, amateurish joke.
On the Yamaha you have 32 stereo layers.

The sounds he boasts about are actually a kind of S.Articulation from Yamaha. Anyone who knows how the Saxophone sounds on the Genos, or other instruments with Articulation, what glissando, or other effects it has, understands what I'm saying.

2 simultaneous effects can be inserted as an insert on a style?
"1 Insert to Arranger chords, 1 Insert to Real Chord."
On Genos, I play all 8 tracks, you can even combine them.
Genos has 27 inset fx simultaneously. 27!!!

Genos is right, only Audio Style as drums, Ketron would also be bass.
They say it goes directly from the ssd (direct streaming), which would not load the sampler memory.
But also with Genos, Audio Style goes directly from usb or ssd.
I don't see anything written about sampler compatibility, not even with the old Ketron series.
What am I kidding?
On 2 Main out and 2 auxiliary (which from the description are actually 1 stereo)? But maybe I'm wrong and Aux 1 is a separate stereo output from Aux2.
Then we have L-R (Main), Ls-Rs (Aux1) and C-Sub (Aux2).
But if they are not balanced outputs, it's a shame of the sound, goodbye fidelity.

But what are the specifications, I would only understand a Ketron fan buying something like this, instead of a Genos.>>>

Regards

Hello.
Looking a bit through the previous comments I found yours as well.
I believe that there should always be an answer in a friendly atmosphere and respecting every point of view.
Βut because your friend wrote things that are not true, I would like to make some clarifications.
I think that when we want to say something we should know very well the truth about what is happening in whatever we are commenting on and not say things that are not true.
First, let me say that I have no intention (and I never did) to blame Genos because even today I still work with it since my main work from which I live is music in live performances (apart from development).
But since you contrasted the features of Genos, I feel I should say a few things.
So, let's take them in order and let me answer what your friend raised.

1) "At this price, the keyboard is a joke.
1GB for samplers?"

I think you might remember how much total Ram Genos started with.
Since I happen to have the Genos since the beginning of 2018, I would like to remind you that initially the Genos had 1.7 giga Ram and the price I bought it (in Greece) was around €4200.
Of course, you will tell me that Genos was released in 2017 (5 years ago) but it still had more Ram as well as being cheaper than Event. Yes.
And you'd be right. However, for better or for worse, the company has decided this thing for now, but I have to say that the Event has a total of 2.5 giga Ram.
So, just as Yamaha was able to essentially change the specifications and give 3 giga Ram with OS Version 2.0, just like Korg in the Pa4x with 3.0 Next, Ketron can do the same in the future since everyone now they work on a Linux platform which now gives the company's developers a lot of development possibilities that didn't exist before.
But here and after your friend talked about a funny keyboard at this price it forces me to say some things and honestly don't take it as me doing some kind of defamation, (on Genos) because I never did, and I never will.
Also as I said before I still work with Genos.
Of course, when I finish creating my own (personal) Pack for the Event, the Genos will be replaced by the Event.
But I will tell the truth and only the truth which is based in real facts.
Have you or your friend ever tried to create a custom multisample in Genos or any Yamaha Arranger?
You have no choice but to try because there is simply no other option than through the very tedious YEM which lacks too many critical features to be called (professional).
What I mean? That since Genos doesn't have the slightest onboard Sample edit feature, we are forced to work exclusively through YEM.
But, just a minute... Do we not have this feature (audio editing) in YEM either?
Unfortunately, no.
There is no possibility to edit or correct the samples either in YEM and so when there is even a sample error (I have had it) we should use a software editor as it is (Wavelab, SOUND FORGE etc.) as well as we also need a Sound Converter (personally I use SampleRobot6 and Awave Studio) and after making all the corrections we will have to re-export our sound (personally I create my sounds in Soundfont2 "SF2") and re-import to YEM.
And since there is no possibility to replace a multisample (SF2 in this case) in a Sound, I am forced to completely delete our old sound and make the sound from scratch, but all the settings of the sound (Envelope, Volume, LFO, Filter, etc.).
Then we should export (Full Pack or Quickly Pack and then import to Genos as Expansion Pack.
And all this for just a single sample that was wrong and keep in mind that there is much more than I did not tell you about this process.
How do you now fix the same problem in Event?
We simply open the onboard sampler, load the sound with the sample that was wrong and if it can be corrected onboard, for example if it wanted to normalize, correct looping, or even delete the specific sample, we do it directly (since there is an onboard full sample editor) and after correcting it press save.
If it is cannot corrected, and the specific sample must be replaced, then simply delete the specific sample, load the new one (corrected sample) and press Save. That's all.
Now compare which of the two cases is considered more professional and correct.

2) "If you can't combine the internal oscillators with the sampler ones, in 2 banks you've finished the sampler memory".
Your friend probably has the wrong information. Of course, it is possible, and anyone can have any combinations they want.

3)"And 4 layers p er user sound, again, it's a bad, amateurish joke.
On the Yamaha you have 32 stereo layers."
Here first a clarification about Genos because your friend is probably saying it wrong again.
Genos has 8 Elements where in each separate Element we can have (theoretically) unlimited velocity layers.
I haven't had to take it to extremes, but I've tested through SF2 multisample which contained over 30 layers in one Element, and it worked without a problem.
Of course, we said that all this is theoretical because in practice it is almost impossible because there is also the limit of polyphony.
And we are only talking about one Element out of eight.
But things start to get (horribly difficult) when one tries to make a sound that will have multiple Elements.
So here again YEM lacks many useful functions to do the work easily and comfortably.
The main thing is that there are not even clear instructions in the YEM manual on how to carry out a (deeper) processing.
So, we must (guess).
As for "4 layers per user sound" here again your friend makes a mistake.
Because in the case of the Event it is mentioned individually for the multisample and not for the final Sound.
That is, we can create a multisample (onboard of course or if we want via import SF2) which will contain up to 4 Stereo Layers.
Therefore, in the Event's onboard VOICE EDIT, we have the possibility to have up to three stereo multisamples where we will finally get to have 12 Stereo Layers per sound.
Add also that the Event has on your right hand in each style a sound combination section like Genos's 4 OTS (ONE TOUCH SETTING), just as it is in all the other arrangers of all companies, but here the big difference is that it has two and not one (like all arrangers) separate independent Sounds sections.
That is, as in Genos where regardless of the four OTS of the style we can at any time choose a Preset or Custom Sound, here we have two independent sounds through which we can either have two separate combinations of sounds which also have a separate potentiometer or by simply choosing one sound to have linked (internally) another sound and to have two default combinations of sounds in parallel.
So, with this method we have reached 24 stereo layers per Sound.
Doesn't sound bad, does it?
And let's not forget that in Genos we don't have any onboard management of Layers (Elements) in contrast to Event where everything is done onboard giving us absolute control with great ease and above all without the need of any third-party program (YEM etc.) which of course some programs are not free, and we will have to pay for them.

4) "Genos has 27 insert fx simultaneously. 27!!!"
Indeed, Genos has 27 insert FX in total, but not all of them are available in one domain.
Eg Styles have 8 Insert FX: Insertion Effect 21–28: Style Parts (except the Audio Part of the Audio Style)
But ok. But tell me this:
Have you ever tried to open more than one insert fx in a Chanel of a Style?
If you haven't tried it, I'll tell you what happens.
If you want to open a second Insert (on the same channel) you simply open it without any Edit options beyond the first insert fx in the chain. And here, be careful.
I'm talking about the case where we want to open a second insert fx on the same channel.
This is a problem that existed from the very beginning in Genos and even though I and many other users have pointed it out to the company since 2018, nothing has been done to fix it.
On the other hand, the Event does have a limitation in this area. But. This Insert is essentially a Multi Effect which has in a single Effect an Fx chain which contains Overdrive, Compressor,
Chorus, Phaser, Flanger, Delay (stereo, or mono & Tap) and four parametric areas EQ.
Also, the difference here is that the same insert can be used in any other midi or audio channel of the style we want, unlike all other arrangers where the insert only opens in one channel.
Also, here we should say that there is the possibility to have a completely different setting of the Insert FX in each variation as also here (in the Event) everything is done directly from the mixer without having to be done necessarily through the Style Creator like Genos to have different settings (volume, send fx, drum kit mix) in each variation.
Also, in Genos there is another very bad feature: If for any reason the moment we play we make a change in the mix of the style then all the individual settings that have been made in the next variations (on the specific channel) cease to apply.

5) "The sounds he boasts about are actually a kind of S.Articulation from Yamaha. Anyone who knows h ow the Saxophone sounds on the Genos, or other instruments with Articulation, what glissando, or other effects it has, understand what I'm saying".
I don't think anyone at Ketron bragged about it. If you saw it somewhere you should point it out to me.
The truth here is one:
Yamaha should be proud because for the first time in the history of arrangers they introduced S.Articulation in the Tyros series and then Korg followed.
But Yamaha (and only Yamaha) still ignores the users, and despite the pleas never gave the possibility to the user to have their own custom S.Articulation unlike Korg which from day one on the Pa2xPro & Pa800 models and then on all the other models, as well as the Ketron from Audya, although it did not have special Articulation switches, however, there was the possibility via velocity, aftertouch, Pitch Bend, etc.
So here too Ketron has for the first time an Articulation Button which is also available to the user from day one in order to create and use their own S.Articulations.

6) "Genos is right, only Audio Style as drums, Ketron would also be bass".
And this is where your friend is wrong.
There is not only Audio Drums and Audio Bass but also Audio Chord, Live Audio Gtr, Long Audio Gtr (separate strum stereo guitar loops) and they are all audio combined naturally and with perfect synchronization with the additional Classic midi channels (1 midi Bass, 5 Midi Chords.
And to directly answer the next point you raised yes!!
They all play Real Time SSD Streaming without any problems neither when playing nor when changing styles even when playing non-stop.
Yamaha on the other hand has never fixed until today (despite emails we sent) the Audio Phraser through which the user can make their own Audio Styles which are basically just Audio Drums.
A small correction was made at some point, but again it was not corrected properly, with the result that to this day the Fills/Breaks still do not enter on time, so they are essentially useless.
All this in Event is possible for the user from the first day and does not need any additional program or complicated processing.
Just a copy/paste to a specific folder on the SSD of the Event with a specific name and they are ready to use. Everything!!

7)"I don't see anything written about sampler compatibility, not even with the old Ketron series".
Yes, you are right. This may have been an oversight and I have personally pointed this out to the company. But yes. There is compatibility (only in the styles) from all older Ketron models to date.
In essence, the Event (onboard again) when we load an older Ketron style, automatically converts to the new. KST style.

8 "On 2 Main out and 2 auxiliaries (which from the description are actually 1 stereo)? But maybe I'm wrong and Aux 1 is a separate stereo output from Aux2.
Then we have L-R (Main), Ls-Rs (Aux1) and C-Sub (Aux2)".
But if they are not balanced outputs, it's a shame of the sound, goodbye fidelity."
Yes, Aux1 and Aux2 are two more stereo pairs.
But now here we should know what we are talking about.
What does Balance Out have to do with fidelity?
Not to elaborate on what Balance means it would be good for your friend to look here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio
Also. Who told you Genos has Balance Out?
In the Specs nothing like this is mentioned and the picture of the wiring in the manual shows a TS Jack and not a TRS.
For the sake of truth, look at a related question that was asked here in the Forum.
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php?topic=47412.0
So, Genos (just like Event) has UNBALANCED Out whenever and here we will use simple TS Jack and not TRS.
But I still don't understand where the problem is.
Personally, and knowing that Genos has UNBALANCED Out I bought the excellent D.I Box Radial JDI Stereo with which I am completely satisfied, and it is an extremely high-quality tool that uses the famous Jensen transformers where in combination with the excellent quality Mogami cables that I have, I have converted my badge to BALANCE and I am completely satisfied.
Trust me though. It didn't get better (fidelity).
But the quality of the audio signal got much better where there is no external ground interference or anything else that can be caused by wrong connections or problems created in some cases by unbalance connections.
Also, the Radial JDI D.I Box gives me that little something extra that (flatters) the signal. Nothing less and nothing more.

9) In the immediately preceding comment, you mention that there are no chord variations.
And here you are making a mistake.
There are 3 different chord variations: Maj, Min, 7th and even with the possibility of onboard full edit.
On the other hand, let's not talk about the essentially non-existent possibilities provided by Yamaha in this matter (chord variations) since the only way the user can create something like this is through third-party software which the user must pay for, as well as the use of a computer and especially good midi knowledge programming. I would call it disappointing especially for such a big company like Yamaha.
Ketron on the other hand in this area (chord variation) introduces to the Event an amazing innovation that puts things in a new fantastic and creative state.
And this innovation is called MULTICHORD. What is this.
So we thought of the following simple thing: Instead of having, for example, in all the Majors a midi sequence in each chord, let's have 12 different midi sequences as many as the notes chromatically in each octave following simple thinking: A musician for example a Pianist either when playing and accompanying an orchestra, or when playing alone (solo instrument) playing any rhythmic pattern, never repeats the exact same pattern on every different chord. That is, suppose we play and accompany a singer with a Piano following a 4/4 Ballad pattern. So, the pianist's playing is always somewhat different in everyone "Key chord". That is, otherwise, he will play or can play in CMaj, otherwise he will play or can play in DMaj, otherwise he will play or can play in Cm, and so on.
So, by thinking creatively we can create our own Multichord Midi Files with different chords in each Key Chord as many as we want and then you will really realize that we keep forgetting the concept of repetition. So: Maj 12 different midi fills, Min 12 different midi fills, Min7 12 different midi fills and so on. Of course, it is not necessary to write 12 midi files. If we don't want it, then we write what we want, and the system takes over the "translation"
In this way, the boring repetition ceases to exist since for each Key Chord we can have a different midi file.
The only limitation is our imagination.
But the most terrible thing here is that we don't need to program all this in one style. All we do is to program our midi files separately in a daw (Cubase etc.), (whatever we want) we export them to a folder with the appropriate names and we just copy/paste it to a special folder on the SSD of the Event.
From there, all we do is open them to any channel we want in a style where after we simply select it, it plays normally following the chords of the style as another integral part of the Style.
So, you can imagine that in relation to all audio channels that we can have midi Multichord on each midi channel what can it mean.
If you didn't understand I would like you to wait a little while until I make a video of it (a little later) and see it in action.
As well as saying that the company will have several ready-made MULTICHORDS ready to use.
This is what I wanted to say because I could not leave them unanswered.
So, think again if for all that it (the Event) offers and so much more that there is no reason for me to mention it is little even in relation to its price..
So, think again if for all that it (the Event) offers and so much more that there is no reason for me to mention.
Add to that the (from Covid-19 to today) the global problem that exists with the very expensive spare parts and parts that a company will need, put also the cost of fuel that at least in Europe there is a very serious problem with the consequence that there are negative effects on trade.
Thank you very much and I apologize for my huge post.

[Duffy]

Genos target market is "sit and play" players, very far from DAWs.

Yes, it's obvious who Yamaha's target market is but shouldn't they remember that when setting the prices, rather than calling it a professional workstation and charging accordingly?
They are having it both ways and should decide whether it's a home player board, or a pro board.
Some real competition from Korg & Ketron might make them finally decide which market they are aiming at.
I believe that once the update comes for the new Korg, that the competition will be ready in that direction.

[ton37]

Hi @Sokratis1974, thanks for the detailed and carefully worded explanation. Excellent explanation (although it is technically too complicated for me ;-) ) based on facts. We should cherish such contributions. Thanks again!
P.S.  I don't see any 'attack' on the Yamaha (Genos, for example), you've worded that well.

[Lee Batchelor]

Genos target market is "sit and play" players, very far from DAWs.

Agreed however Yamaha includes several "hints" about recording to a DAW. There's even a few MIDI patch screens that are very poorly documented. The Genos is touted as a pro-level keyboard, which implies that recording to a DAW is possible. Yes, it is possible but very convoluted. If their target market is the home player, then remove all documentation about recording to a DAW. It's terribly misleading. If they want to include a section on recording to a DAW, then write the darn thing properly! Just because the target market is the home player doesn't mean the pro players don't exist. Yamaha needs to do it right or go home!

One more thing...the documentation for onboard MIDI recording "assumes" an advanced level of MIDI knowledge. It is not written to a novice or intermediate audience. Don't these people count or is MIDI recording just for the pro-level folks? This too needs to be cleaned up for a significant percentage of their target audience. Of course, some novice audiences will figure it out but a golden rule in technical writing is, "Never force your audience to fill in the blanks. Do not assume they know everything."

Edit 1
Steinberg or any of the other DAW manufacturers are just as much to blame. They assume everyone uses a simple MIDI controller that triggers VST instruments. They need to include a chapter on how to record arranger keyboards and use the top level arrangers as examples - even a patch file that pre-configures the DAW for the Genos or whatever arranger you're using. Heck, there aren't that many.

Edit 2
I know it's been mentioned that the easiest way to record to a DAW is to just record everything in the Genos MIDI section, upload that file to Cubase, and then unpack the tracks. This works, however, assigning Genos voices to those individual tracks is very confusing and often doesn't work. Sometimes you have to reload Cubase or restart the Genos because the drum snares were triggering the piano!! We need clear, well written documentation and there is none.

Sorry for wandering way off track!

[ton37]

recognizable @Lee. Those who work with DAWs and MIDI know that it's not for Dummies, but requires long-term in-depth study to understand and apply it. That is why very few will venture into it and that also makes it very unattractive for a producer to invest a lot in it? How attractive would it be to the consumer if Yamaha came up with a 'Cubase module' that connects flawlessly to that keyboard (eg an Yamaha-equivalent of the Ketron modules??) (sorry @Sokrat1s1974 )?

Oh man, reading my own post: Yamaha has bought Cubase, now it is going to buy Ketron???

[Toril S]

Yes, first we take Manhattan....

[EileenL]

Yamaha have owned Cubase for a while now.

[Lee Batchelor]

Yamaha have owned Cubase for a while now.

True, Eileen and yet they offer no easy to use instructions on how to integrate one of their best products into Cubase. What would it take? A half a day of engineering time and maybe two pages of instructions??? Give me a break!!!!

[rphillipchuk]

So true Lee !!   

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi

I like one comment when one guy was demonstrating disco music on the ketron


" So the keyboard plays itself "
What else can it do??