Orchestral accompaniment

[Mr. Gary]

I'm what you'd call a 'self taught intermediate' player.
I have a Genos and am looking at having a go at multi tracking. Finding sheet music for a melody and left hand chords is not a problem, but when it comes to for example an orchestral or strings overlay in the background, I'm lost as to where to find it, are there music scores available separately for this.?
Any ideas greatly appreciated.

[mikf]

You can find and buy full scores for arrangements, big band, Classical orchestral, etc. There are many sources for these like Sheet Music Plus. They vary in price for popular big band accompaniment arrangements for say Sinatra songs around $50 to full orchestral scores that can cost thousands. Do an internet search on full music scores to find sources for these.
However, I should point out that most people doing multi tracking on arrangers would do this by ear, not from scores. A simple way to custom multi track an arrangement is to start by recording a very trimmed back style and melody, maybe only drums, bass and melody, then things like strings, horns etc add track by track. Start very simple.
Mike

[andyg]

It's not rocket science, but it does take a little understanding of orchestration, arranging and music theory before you start jumping in and doing it by ear! And of course, you need to know what buttons to push on the keyboard! I'd say that most important things is to have a clear plan before you start recording.

Multi track recording is something that I teach as it's compulsory for the highest level keyboard exams and students certainly don't want to leave it until then before they make a start. I've had students multi-tracking in their Grade 1 exam, where it's optional, but fun! And it's something that I can do via Zoom.

[panos]

Hi Gary,
if you can find a well made midi file(midi song) for a composition/song, as close as it can be to the original, it will also contain what all the instruments are playing, little phrases, bridges etc
You just have to search and find the good ones.

Some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUPOrYAbmZ8&t=517s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMeUu7H50Xw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBvSmfxFv_w

Yamahamusicsoft has also some really well made midi songs.
https://shop.usa.yamaha.com/en/downloadables/songs/midi.html

[mikf]

Andy is right, orchestration by ear is fun but not simple. Although it's probably easier than using full music scores to make multi track orchestrations, because these full scores are probably going to be quite intimidating to anyone other than experienced trained musicians. Not only multiple lines of manuscript but probably not in a friendly key. And just to make matters more complicated, not all instruments parts will be written in the same key because many instruments, especially brass and woodwind, have different pitch. So you would have to first transpose all these parts into the same key to play them on a keyboard.
Mike

[aprilla]

Scores are available but it can be hard to find something you might actually enjoy playing with. Some piano music has enough staves to give you a few tracks to record as multi tracks but I'd go the MIDI route like Panos recommends, using notation software that let's you select an instrument and print that as a sheet... to paper or to pdf, whichever you prefer. You could start out recording the main parts and build on that, printing the parts separately as and when you need them.
I used to do this with my PSR5700 and save to floppy discs. Wow, it's been a while!

[mikf]

I don't see the point in copying what is on a midi, because you would not be doing the orchestration so why not just use the midi in the first place.
The best way is to learn to multi track your own orchestration is to start simple. Quick record something with a very simple accompaniment. Then experiment with adding just a couple of tracks maybe strings and horns.
Mike

[aprilla]

I don't see the point in copying what is on a midi, because you would not be doing the orchestration so why not just use the midi in the first place.
The best way is to learn to multi track your own orchestration is to start simple. Quick record something with a very simple accompaniment. Then experiment with adding just a couple of tracks maybe strings and horns.
Mike

I like reading scores, I guess I'm used to thinking of MIDI as a notation source and Mr Gary was asking about sheet music

[andyg]

MIDI files to notation can be fraught with issues, as some members may know.

Unless a MIDI file is very hard quantised, which would make it sound very robotic, it may well end up almost as gibberish in the score. A note that's a demisemiquaver early or late, for example, will appear so in the file and so there is often a lot of correction to be done in the notation app, which requires a good understanding of the music and the theory anyway!

It is possible to apply quantisation in the app itself but this runs the risk of the app deciding that, say, a quaver is actually a semiquaver preceded by a semiquaver rest, or that it will covert triplet quavers into a quaver/semiquavers combination. And then you're back into corrections again.

[Sam Wacker]

Hi, I'm also a mainly self – taught player. Your question is specific – about orchestration but it might help to tell us the type of music you want to orchestrate. Although people will disparage MIDI I liked the suggestion of using notation software. I use MUSECSORE.  Download this free software, open a MIDI file and extract all the parts. If your sight-reading is not great you can print the sheets with note names. For an example, use a MIDI of The Beatles "The Long and Winding Road". Isolate the string section and try to work out what's happening based on the chord progressions. Then isolate the brass and woodwind and listen again.
I'm not plugging Musescore but there are millions of scores available to members in different musical genres.

https://musescore.org/en

And before someone reminds me that notation from MIDI could be really inaccurate, it's a starting place - as is the public library /internet for the musical range of specific instruments.

Christian Henson, co-founder of Spitfire Audio had no musical training but is an award-winning composer for TV and Film. Lots of stuff on YouTube about how he works. (Yes, I know he's using a Digital Audio Workstation approach)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtwQMlB1Gus

[Sam Wacker]

The two books recommended by Christian Henson too quickly in the video but linked in the description are:

Piston, Walter
Orchestration
Published by Gollancz, 1979
ISBN 10: 0575026022ISBN 13: 9780575026025

Adler, Samuel
The Study of Orchestration
Published by Norton, 1982
ISBN 10: 039395188XISBN 13: 9780393951882

[Hugh Tyros 4]

Hi Mr. Gary,

I have read your initial post and wonder if you have succeeded in creating a piece in the way you describe using MULTITRACKING.

If you have an orchestra playing a 'Classical' piece, then each instrument in the orchestra will have it's own music to follow, and all the instruments will be playing together at the same time.  If we want to create a similar piece on a keyboard, we are a bit restricted by only having two hands.  So here is where 'multitracking' comes into its own.  You could start with one of the instruments; then add another while you are listening to the first.  You now have two instruments recorded.  Whilst playing that back, you could add in a third.  And you could do this a number of times.  You will end up with all those orchestral instruments playing together, but they weren't all playing at the same time.

A number of years ago I came across this piece on YouTube and thought I would share it with you as I reckon the end result is what you are aiming to do.

G. Caccini - "Ave Maria"

The person who put this together (Mike N) says:

This is a 5 part score which I have arranged from a "free score" site. The voices are: top left - viola; top right - cello, bass & 3rd violin; bottom left - violin 2; and bottom right - violin 1.

For violin 1 (bottom right) I used my Roland electronic accordion connected via midi to my PSR S900. I used my accordion solely because I can create better dynamic volume increases/decreases with the bellows, far better than using a swell pedal. I had to record each part and then with a lot of blood, sweat and tears, edit the video and the audio so it all fitted together "as one".

https://youtu.be/ZyaIjJcDiz0

Isn't that just beautiful?  Everything you hear/see is Mike playing.  This must be the most innovative example of multitracking that I have ever come across, and illustrates brilliantly how to put together various instruments to make an orchestral piece.

Hugh

[Hugh Tyros 4]

Similar to the "Ave Maria" put together by Mike N above, here is another example of a classical piece that has been Multitracked ie. the various melodies that make up the 'whole' piece have been played separately and then put together.

Johann Pachelbel - Canon in D | Keyboard multitrack

https://youtu.be/jN8BHEfGvh4

Hugh

[RoyB]

A problem in using band or orchestral scores is that the music notations for some instruments are often presented in different clefs (other than the standard treble and bass clefs). Players of those orchestral instruments would be familiar with reading music written in those clefs, but they would be unfamiliar to most keyboard players.

For another example of a multi-track recording, a couple of years ago I posted this video of myself playing 3 multi-tracked parts for an orchestral piece called The Typewriter. This was multi-track recorded on a Tyros 5.

https://youtu.be/hcvm4LMgZAQ


Regards

Roy

[mikf]

Although some people may enjoy exactly reproducing Classical pieces, track by track, I don't think it's what most would want to do with multi tracking. "Exactly reproducing" might be a good learning exercise, and there are a few who get a kick from reproducing a recording, right down to the exact mix or sound of individual instruments. But probably more people doing multi tracking would want to produce their own arrangement of popular music.
Here are some of my thoughts on constructing a multi track orchestration on the arranger.
1. The main purpose of orchestration is to augment and support the main theme with multiple instruments, and make it more interesting. Sometimes less is more and so avoid the temptation to overdo, especially when learning.
2 Style accompaniment already contains this, but they are repetitive and you want something better. However, some basic parts, especially in popular music, are by their nature quite repetitive, eg  drums and bass, and you can use these from the style, at least as a starting point.
3 So a good way to start to experiment with multi track is to pick a style with the right drums and bass for what you have in mind, then silence all other parts. Record the song with a lead line and only these parts, this is now your basis, then start to add other tracks. I have found this to be a very efficient method.
4. A huge advantage of doing orchestration on an arranger is the easy "trial and error"  available to you. You can instantly hear the result, before adding  more parts. It's really easy to wipe and re-do whole sections if you don't like it, or to fix short sections by using drop in. You have no other musicians being paid by the hour, or studio rental costs, so it's only how long you are prepared to spend. In the old days the arrangement was hand written note by note, from out of the arrangers head, maybe only with a piano at hand. That takes real knowledge, skill and experience because the time and cost of getting it wrong was huge, and these people were top level musicians, and often geniuses. But you don't have to be able to do any of this, - just trial and error until you are happy. I really think most can learn, although a good ear is essential.
5. The style parts that you used as a foundation can also be replaced if required, but recommend leaving this till last.
6 Always save what you have done with different names (****1, ****2 etc) at regular intervals, so you have a fall back if you inadvertently wipe something or want to return to an earlier version to redo a track.
Mike

[mikf]

To expand on my post above, here is an example of an orchestration I am working on for a vocalist. The process was exactly as described above, and didn't take too long. I have posted both the version with the guide track ( the trumpet will be replaced by the vocal) and without, - ready for vocal to be added.
The vocal will be added in a studio to get a quality mix with the wav. accompaniment track.
I will probably post the finished result here, and I expect it to be good as the vocalist is someone I know well and have worked with before, and he is a vey fine performer and recording artist.
https://app.box.com/s/ggmy0hvsvq63dzij4j1jxohjco5yptr4
https://app.box.com/s/kgx9emejxe5c3rtharun6pxaexk56n5z

Mike

[andyg]

Just to carry on this discussion a little:

In the Diploma exams for the London College of Music (DipLCM) for electronic keyboard, one of the requirements is this:

You must play a classical piece, but in a non-classical manner. You can do it all live, using a style, or you can multi-track it. It goes without saying that any use of a third party MIDI file, commercial or otherwise, is not allowed and would result in disqualification.

So the candidate will have to figure out how to do the arrangement, perhaps by listening to various 'souped up' versions - James Last's "Classics Up to Date" series being a rich source of inspiration, or perhaps Waldo de los Rios' "Symphonies for the 70s". The disco arrangements of "Hooked on Classics"? Yes, but I can see many examiners thinking "Not again!" Or maybe they'll source the original orchestra score and use that as well. They'll have at least Grade 5 Theory under their belt as it's a requisite for Diploma level exams, so things like Alto and Tenor clef instruments and transposing instruments like brass and woodwinds won't faze them. There is often no way that they'll want or need every part of the orchestral version, so they'll have to work out exactly what stays and what goes. That in itself is not easy but, hey, we're talking a professional standard diploma here!

They'll have to decide which parts of the piece should be in the backing and which parts they'll play live. And it's not just a case of playing one or two melody sounds over a full backing. No, if they do the job properly, they'll be playing one sound live, then putting it into the backing while playing something else - and doing this many times! In most cases, I'll recommend that they find a suitable style, perhaps edit it and almost certainly revoice it, and use that as a base for their backing. The one thing that they MUST replace is the style's bass line. 1) they'll have the bass notes that they want, without having to play AI chords or 'on bass' chords and 2) it won't be perfectly in time, so will sound more natural!

Having created a multi-track arrangement, they'll then have to mix it carefully, balancing the backing with their live parts.

You get what I mean when I said that candidates really don't want to be doing this as their first attempt at multi-tracking!

[Mr. Gary]

Thanks to all for so many helpful replies, apologies for the delay in this, out of action for a while..