Why does my Genos go out of tune?

[Tony09]

Having installed my recently purchased Korg Pa300 above my Genos I began playing a tune, alternating my right hand between keyboards.  I found that the notes sounded different. I'm familiar with how the Genos sounds when playing that tune but the same notes played on the Korg sounded as if I'd played the wrong notes.

Looking at the Master Tuning on each keyboard I found them both to be correct at 440.0Hz. But to my ears one of them was out of tune - but which, by how much and why?

Searching for a solution on the web I found https://pianobubble.com/can-digital-pianos-keyboards-be-out-of-tune-how-to-fix/. This suggests using a tuning app on your mobile phone - the author uses insTuner (a Mac app). On my Android phone I chose Soundcorset from the Play Store.

I also downloaded a 440Hz reference tone from https://www.mediacollege.com/audio/tone/download/.

With Soundcorset  running I selected Analyzer (from the menu top left), played the 440Hz tone on my PC and the app screen (in portrait position) showed it to be precisely at A4: 440Hz.

Powering on my Genos and before doing anything else I tried pressing various keys in turn. They each showed the correct note on the analyzer (sic), varying only very slightly off key by up to  plus or minus 4cents.

Next I loaded the registration bank for the song that had the problem. Keying A above middle C the analyzer displayed Bb. Other keys were also out.  Each note played sounded a semitone up, e.g., C showed Db. I tried another reg bank and the notes on the analyzer are 3 semitones down (play A, get Gb). 

I loaded my Blank Reg Bank, pressed Reg 1 button and the notes played were all correct.

I loaded the problem bank, keyed notes still all correct, pressed a reg button to activate and now the notes were all out by a semitone.

Playing the song on the Pa300 a semitone up it sounds in tune with the Genos. Both keyboards and their sounds have Transpose at zero.

Do any of the knowledgeable members here know why or can suggest what might be the cause?

Tony

[Lee Batchelor]

Hi Tony09,

Am I correct in saying your Genos is out of tune and your Korg is in tune? If so, is it possible the registration memorized on the Genos was done while the Master Tune was not at 440 Hz? I'm not sure if the registration memory stores that information or if the master Tune is a global function outside of the registration memory. Just throwing an idea on the wall to see if it sticks  .

[ckobu]

Hi Tony,
Registration for each Voice remembers the Tunning value. It can be set to - / + 64 which is half a tone - / +. I think the problem is that so check in Voice Setting. In addition to this, there may be a problem with the Scale setting. Just in case, check this setting, but I don't think that's the cause for you.

https://youtu.be/RfmEVpMV-78?t=183

[Lee Batchelor]

Registration for each Voice remembers the Tunning value.

Thanks for the clarification, ckobu. I wasn't sure.

[Tony09]

Thanks for your speedy responses both.

Yes you're correct, Lee. The Korg is in tune. The Master Tune on both has been 440 from new. I checked them then and since. It was the first place I looked. As ckobu points out, Registration can record the Voice setting, which includes the voice tuning.

ckobu, I checked the Voice settings before posting. Voice Tuning all at zero. That TERCA video is very interesting. I'll look at that later. Thanks.

[jwyvern]

Tony, have you checked all Transpose values in the window brought up on Genos by pressing Direct Action followed by one of the Transpose buttons? Make sure Master,  Keyboard (and Song in case you use it) are all at zero, and if not adjust them to zero before pressing some more Genos notes to check against the Korg.
John

[ckobu]

That's right, John,
You can also check the transpose status in each Registration using Yamaha Expansion Manager.

https://psrtutorial.com/util/best.html

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[Lee Batchelor]

Ckobu, Please correct your terminology. It's the Yamaha Registration Manager. Just wanted to avoid future confusion . Thanks.

[ckobu]

Tipfeler happens to everyone. There is a link to the program, there is a picture ... 

Thanks for the correction 

[panos]

Hi Tony,
the "problem" is not the tuning neither of your keyboard, nor of the registration.
A registration can "transpose" the whole keyboard 1 to 12 semitones up,or down.
(We use the word "transposition" instead of "tuning" in that case in keyboard's "terminology", because all the notes are transposed and there is still a note tuned in 440hz no matter which  note is that. But we could also still change the tuning of each note, and in that case it would be a new tuning of the notes and not a transposition.In your menu there should be some preset tunings for playing, e.g Arabic music where the values between each note can be different from the Major scale we use).

I think that there is a transpose icon down right to your screen.
Load the registration, press that icon and you will see that is not in a zero value.
Change that value to zero and save again the registration with the new value.

Sometimes we save registrations with a transposition for various reasons, or even by mistake(it happened to me once).

[Tony09]

Good one, John. I tried your suggestion of Direct Access + Transpose and got a Transpose screen I'd never seen before. In the attached photo (if the one I attached appears) you can see that whilst main screen behind it shows the keyboard having zero transpose (top right of pic) the Transpose screen shows the Keyboard at 1. (I don't understand why the difference.)  Reducing it to zero in this screen resolves the problem.

I also don't understand why Master is showing -5. I've not found this reading or setting on any other screen. I'm guessing it came in on a style or midi.

Panos, I don't have a "transpose icon down right to your screen". I figured out this must be one of the assignable choices so changed my Reg Sequence to Transpose and this displays the same screen as John's suggestion.

Many thanks you chaps for your help to resolve my problem.

Tony

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[Lee Batchelor]

Of course! I never thought of that either, Tony. For one keyboard to be in concert pitch with another, all three of those settings must be 0. We often forget to look at the simple things first.

[jwyvern]

Hi Tony, glad you were able to identify where the "mistune" was coming from. If some time in the future some rogue Transpose values reappear it is likely to be a registration(s) that caused it. Although they can set the octaves of voices, styles can't influence the keyboard transpose values.

John

[panos]

Hi Tony,
they moved the icon to the top right, as I can see in your photo with one of the updates.
It is the icon with the piano black & white keys (keybed)