Where To in 2022?

[Joe W]

The bill to renew PSR Tutorial for another year comes due in less than two weeks.  It will cost me $3000. Is PSR Tutorial still worth it?  I have a dedicated server that supports not only this forum but also the main PSR Tutorial web site.  Roger spends a lot of time taking care of the forum and I spend my time taking care of the main web site.  Resources I have created on the main web site bring in the revenue to pay the bills.  But maybe the content is getting old and people are no longer interested.  I know I am getting old and finding it more difficult to keep up with things.  I'd like some input from members about moving into the future.

Should we take on another Year?  Do we need more "Lessons"?  Is the PSR Performer section worth keeping?  Maybe performers would just as soon simply use the forum to post their songs temporarily and a permanent page listing is not valuable.  Should archived performers be merged with current performers?  We have a lot of styles available.  Do we need additional new style collections?  What is needed to make the PSR Tutorial "better"?  Will new users continue to stumble on to the PSR Tutorial and discover the resources available here and in the forum?  Any feedback on these questions would certainly be appreciated.

[JohnStarbuck]

Dear Joe,
I'm speaking for myself, but I'd have to think that many other members of the forum have to feel the same way. I think you and Roger do a stellar and amazing job keeping things going with the web and the forum. As you know I've contributed in the past, and am willing to do so now to help defray the costs incurred with the site. I hope other members would feel that way too... same as PBS Television, NPR radio, and the different news papers/ blogs, magazines that people subscribe. I truly wish that we had some corporate participation from Yamaha for this site that means so much to so very many.

I wish I could come up with some kind of constructive suggestions. I visit the forum at least once a day on the average... sometimes more, and have benefitted from music, styles, specific help for a specific situation, enjoyed the performances from so many members. I've said it before, the design of the site with all it's excellent and in-depth content for so many keyboards, players at many different levels is nothing short of miraculous. In ways... the old cliche "heading cats" might apply here, and somehow you and Roger keep out the riff riff, and keep things available and organized in an almost perfect way. Even all the old performances, lessons, recommendations, musical sources, styles, are well archieved so that a quick search brings up more answers than any other source.

I know Roger spends more than a full time job on this. And I know you do too. At the very least, you really should hear from the members about how important and appreciative we all are to you and the other moderators for an almost flawless job. I'm sure it gets old, especially with you both doing what would usually demand a team in a vacuum where this effort goes unappreciated. Others may have suggestions on how to improve things, but I think everything is great the way it is. I hope we'll all help with some $ for the expenses knowing how valuable this is to us every single day.  Gratefully and sincerely, John

[EileenL]

Hello Joe,
  I have asked myself the same question on whether it is worth keeping my forum going. There are not many new keyboards coming along and most seem to have mastered what they want to do with theirs so questions have dropped off. There is so much on things like You Tube now giving very good tuition on using these newer keyboards where you can also ask questions and get answers. Seems to be the way things are going now. As for styles I think most people have large stores of these and doubt they are used much. We all seem to use about twenty of our favourite ones for our performances. Lots of people now us Multi Tracking to create songs where they don't use styles at all.
  Many people are now putting there performances on Face Book now so I find not that many being posted on forums. Alas things are changing and the pandemic seems to have changed some peoples minds on what they now want. There are a lot of live streams now of people performing for us where you can interact with many friends as you listen. This came about on Face Book to try and cheer people up during Lock Down an has become very popular.
  It is a hard decision to make but personally feel things have changed over the last couple of years and Face Book groups are taking the place of some forums.

[chesterkins]

Hi Joe
First of all let me thank you and Roger for the stellar work you both do in the upkeep of this site
Many of the observations you make are correct  The world is changing and so is the keyboard world
But for me one thing remains    Community
You guys have built a home for people who have one thing in common  Playing keyboards
I have been a member for almost 20 years and this site is my go to place if I need advice or help on any topic relating to my keyboards from 740 to Genos
Sure there is You tube  and other sources but this site is where it all comes together
I also love to browse around the site at least once a week to see what is new
I agree some of you seniors may wish to revamp the site Take out some old wood Look what is not used very often now a days
BUT please keep the community together  In this day and age it is more important than ever

[GregB]

Joe,

Thank y'all for all of your work on this website!

Forum - yes, definitely it's useful and relevant, especially given the community as chesterkins mentioned.

One thing I'd recommend is an improved Styles database.  You have tens of thousands of styles on this website, but finding one for a particular use is challenging!  Make it highly searchable (author, name/comments, time signature - maybe including actual time signature rather than just the coded time signature, associated song names, supported keyboards, etc.), even a JavaScript-based "recommend" tool would be awesome (there are already JavaScript-based drum machines out there for preview listening), and allow people to comment on and "like" or rate particular styles.

- Greg

[Ronbo]

Joe,

We need you and this forum.

Here's a suggestion to perhaps keep the site going.  Let all members (3800+) contribute $2 each. That way we can all say we helped and nobody will go broke in the process.

I think you could use more assistance. You and Roger seem to be spending a lot of time maintaining the forum. There are other moderators as well who just might be getting a little weary; They too should be honoured for their contribution.

What say you, members?

Can you help out monetarily or otherwise?

regards

Ron

[Toril S]

Dear Joe! For me, this forum and the PSR Tutorial site is home. I visit many times a day. I have learned so much since joining, and gotten so many helpful friends here! This is the best forum ever. Period! I use all resources here, styles, songs, Performer's section, lessons, and I think all have their value and must be continued.
I think keeping things just as they are is the best.
But you and Roger work very hard, so do other moderators too. Maybe a good idea to involve more people to work on the pages?
As for interest in the different resources I think that will vary, and that is natural. Sometimes people talk much about packs, other times they want to collect styles or listen to songs. I will gladly contribute to cover the running costs of the PSR Tutorial, and so will many others. A membership fee is all right with me, but maybe not so easy to administrate when members are from all over the world? This forum is heaven sent, so please continue it, or a lot of us will be lost in the desert, devastated!

[stephenm52]

Joe,

As always I have appreciated the work you've done here and of course I know Roger plays a vital role here too.  I may not visit the site on a daily basis but I frequent it several times per week.  I would gladly pay a subscription fee to see the site continue on.


As a side note I've made a number of friends here and we keep in contact on a regular basis.  There are even friends I've  who are no longer with us they have passed on.

[mikf]

Joe - you created this forum, and it has become a true focal point for the arranger community. Yes, things have changed, especially in the last few years, but its relevance clearly continues as evidenced by the fairly busy user base. It is your baby, and along with Roger, it is your your efforts that keep it alive.
However, you and Roger cannot go on supporting this forever, and at the end of the day, it is really your decision if it should continue. And it is even possible that the decision is taken out your hands by events, where one or both of you are unable to continue.
Could some things be changed on the site, - probably but do you really want to take on that work at this time of your life?
You might want to consider running it for another year while you find someone who wishes to take it over, and transition to them. Then it becomes someone else's decision about making changes, and the ensuing work.
You could of course just keep running it until you cannot - at which point it precipitously ends. That would be sad.

Mike

[Colin D]

Hi Joe, Roger,

It will be a sad day if the site ends.  I wonder if some of it (Forumn) could also move to Fakebook too?  It won't be as good as this community.  But better than loosing it altogether.

Kind Regards

Colin

[EileenL]

Hi Colin,
  There are quite a few good sites on Face Book already and some really good instructional videos on You Tube of the newer keyboards. Lots of people also giving live performances from professionals to home players. I think this is the reason that a lot of forums are very quite now.

[janamdo]

The bill to renew PSR Tutorial for another year comes due in less than two weeks.  It will cost me $3000. Is PSR Tutorial still worth it?  I have a dedicated server that supports not only this forum but also the main PSR Tutorial web site.  Roger spends a lot of time taking care of the forum and I spend my time taking care of the main web site.  Resources I have created on the main web site bring in the revenue to pay the bills.  But maybe the content is getting old and people are no longer interested.  I know I am getting old and finding it more difficult to keep up with things.  I'd like some input from members about moving into the future.

Should we take on another Year?  Do we need more "Lessons"?  Is the PSR Performer section worth keeping?  Maybe performers would just as soon simply use the forum to post their songs temporarily and a permanent page listing is not valuable.  Should archived performers be merged with current performers?  We have a lot of styles available.  Do we need additional new style collections?  What is needed to make the PSR Tutorial "better"?  Will new users continue to stumble on to the PSR Tutorial and discover the resources available here and in the forum?  Any feedback on these questions would certainly be appreciated.

I think you can better host a website in the Netherlands : its probably cheaper ?
https://www.keurigonline.nl/

[OmbDave]

Dear Joe, I whole heartedly endorse all the previous posts, this forum is invaluable to all of us members. I would also agree with Ron that $2 is very little to ask us all to give and even as Stephen said a $2 subscription each year would still be wonderful value. Please continue with the forum if you are still enjoying it, I'm sure there must be something we can all contribute to ensure the continuance of this magical site.
Kind regards
Dave Melia
Cheshire, England

[adrianed]

Hi Joe and everyone
I also would like the PSR Tutorial Forum to continue as it is
I also think we should at least cover the cost somehow
I propose a yearly membership payment from everyone, I think this would be better than some folks donating and others contributing nothing, the reason I say this is because donations from a few probably leave a large gap to be covered by Joe, if everyone paid something in the whole cost could be covered
The amount we pay needs to be enough to cover the variations in membership, the membership might go down a little when a membership fee is required so this needs to be taken into account
I think two dollars is cutting it too fine, the amount needs to be realistic
Adrian

[okeedokee]

  Dear Joe  -  I visit each and every day.  Don't use it as much, because my PSR 950 is old hat and I'm 87.      Like Ron I'd be more than happy to contribute to keep it going.  - Norm

[Ronbo]

I think two dollars is cutting it too fine, the amount needs to be realistic

I agree . I only mentioned $2 to illustrate that it wouldn't take a lot of money if EVERYONE kicked in little. Gee. $2 won't even buy a cup of coffee at Starbuck's.

If small contribution scares people off, well then, do we need them?

Most will contribute; some will walk. So be it.

Sooner or later, we're going to have to face the music.

regards

Ron

[hammer]

I have been a member of both Eileen's and Joe's forums since 2006.  Without either one of them I probably would have given up playing arranger keyboards.  The members of these forums were far more helpful than I find the current Youtube of Facebook videos to be.  Not only that, but often I would post a question and within minutes there would be an answer posted. 

I know this has changed.  Many members have aged out or died and it seems like the newer members just don't follow a lot of the posts anymore. 

Anyway,  I truly hope both Eileen and Joe keep these forums going for the benefit of all of us.

Deane

[vlbrgt]

What I can gather from Joe's writing is that it is not the bill that is in question.

Resources I have created on the main web site bring in the revenue to pay the bills

He asks for feedback about all the extra's that the website/forum has to offer. Are these extra's still needed ?

Do we need more "Lessons"?  Is the PSR Performer section worth keeping?  Maybe performers would just as soon simply use the forum to post their songs temporarily and a permanent page listing is not valuable.  Should archived performers be merged with current performers?  We have a lot of styles available.  Do we need additional new style collections?  What is needed to make the PSR Tutorial "better"?  Will new users continue to stumble on to the PSR Tutorial and discover the resources available here and in the forum?

The forum is for me the place to be if I have questions about my keyboard, or to answer at questions from other users.
For me this is the best forum I know about Yamaha keyboards. Thank you Roger.
The website (Utilities - Volbragt) is the place where I can publish my software programs (MixMaster, PadMakers, OpenText), and make them available for all the forum users. My thanks to Joe for making this possible.

I almost don't use any of the other extra's available at PsrTutorial.
This is my use of the website/forum, and I'm sure other users would have different preferences.

Regards
Etienne

[mikf]

Yes, many of you are all missing the point. This is not a plea for money ( although that is always helpful). This is about whether the website has a place going forward given all the other social media options.
Joe mentions the money only because that sparks a clear decision point. 
Mike

[Stuart L]

Like Deane I have been a member of this forum, as well as Eileen's, for some years and have benefitted enormously from them both. The Yamaha manuals are ok but they seem to be written for people who already know how to play and are little help in explaining how to use all these features in a musical context. This is where the forums have been so helpful. Indeed I would have given up where it not for the help I have received.
I very much hope that the forums can continue but whatever happens a big thank you to Joe, Roger and Eileen and all the other moderators etc. for all your hard work.
I can offer little in the way of practical assistance but if an annual subscription would help I would be very happy with that.
A lot of people I know refuse to have anything to do with Facebook. I don't use it myself but that's more to do with the fact I find it confusing so I personally hope things can continue as at present.
Regards
Stuart L

[jtrue]

For my part the most valuable types of information found on the site are tips and techniques for operating the keyboard and exploiting its features, tips about gigging, reviews and recommendations regarding auxiliary equipment of all types, and access to lead sheets.  I like to hear of others' experiences and appreciate the sense of community found here.  I seldom listen to music performances as there are other venues in which they may be found, so would not miss the Performers Pages. Like other members I am very appreciative of the work of Joe, Roger and the other moderators and hope it is possible to continue operations.  I do not have web management skills but would volunteer to assist with general administrative tasks and gladly support the effort financially if that becomes an issue.

   j.

[quasar]

I am new to the Forum and from the beginning when I introduced myself I received warm greetings from you. Your welcome says a lot.

The work of having created and developed this wonderful group, where the knowledge about the arrangers, at all levels, is of the highest quality. I have had the experience of being in other groups but this one has a special organization and information by the tons. Let's do everything we can to keep it. Thank you very much Joe and Roger for this Forum, The Forum

Greetings
Carlos

[hans1966]

Hi Joe, I want to thank you for this wonderful forum.

honestly it would seem very sad that the forum is over.

I hope there is a solution for this precious forum to remain.

I agree that we can all contribute our grain of sand with a small contribution, so that the PSR TUTORIAL forum continues.

Cheers

Hans

[Jørgen]

Hi
Joe, you are starting an important discussion about your website and forum. I consider both to be some of the most important - perhaps the most important - resources worldwide; and I'm around the forum every single day. Everything is well organized both on the website and the forum. Then everything is good! Or?
As you yourself mention, there has been a break in information on the web these years; and this coupled with the desire to still be at the forefront of the latest knowledge - without forgetting all the old stuff - requires constant maintenance and development. A job that you and Roger do great.
But what does the future hold? You yourself mention that you - and all the rest of us - do not get younger - on the contrary. And then the doubt as to whether all the effort is appreciated. But let me be clear that they do!
As most of you probably know, I have had my own well-visited website since 1999 - see footer on this post. And I'm going through the same considerations as you are. Is it worth the effort to continue? Is there interest in it? Can I do it? Do I have to buy a Genos just to keep up with the technology and thus be able to update and develop my software programs? (It becomes difficult as a pensioner to find the money). So I, like you, am looking for some feedback in the first place; and then I have to see if my strength and finances are sufficient.
When I now touch on the economy, I think it's a very, very big cost you have for hosting website and forum. I know very well that this topic is not your main point with your post; but it really must be possible to make it much cheaper.
I really hope you take a year - or better yet many years - with the website and the forum. The opposite will be a huge loss for all of us.

Jørgen

[janamdo]

When I now touch on the economy, I think it's a very, very big cost you have for hosting website and forum. I know very well that this topic is not your main point with your post; but it really must be possible to make it much cheaper.
I really hope you take a year - or better yet many years - with the website and the forum. The opposite will be a huge loss for all of us.

Jørgen

Well 3000 USD /year  that seems to me not only server costs , but also some expensives for help from other people who must be paid for this ?

[vlbrgt]

Joe runs a 'Dedicated server', not a 'simple' VPS.
Google 'Dedicated server prices' and you get an idea about the prices.

Regards
Etienne

[kpblues]

Sorry to hear the forum is at a crossroads.

Like many others I enjoy regular visits to the forum and understand the effort it takes to run the show, so thank you
so much for all the work you have put in to get it this far.

We appreciate it.

I agree with the subscription idea but would pitch it at around £5 per year.
Its a small sum to secure the forum's future and hopefully would cover any website costs involved in collecting subscriptions.

Another option would be advertising. (I would prefer a static adverts as the pop ups drive me mad!)
I can think of a number of UK keyboard suppliers that would be interested.

Also agree with the styles database suggestions by Greg B earlier.

Not too bothered about the Performers section personally but this forum does at least give performers who are shy of Youtube exposure an outlet for their performances.

For me the great advantage of this forum is that I get to hear the views, thoughts and experiences of everybody who loves playing Yamaha keyboards.

So hope the forum carries on.

Good luck!   

[janamdo]

Joe runs a 'Dedicated server', not a 'simple' VPS.
Google 'Dedicated server prices' and you get an idea about the prices.

Regards
Etienne

Why not using a business hosting package ?
I see here : a premium package for 35 USD/ month
-------------------------------------------
Our Business packages are optimized for the business user where availability and security of data are extra important. For example, all mail traffic is routed via SSL, you have extensive incoming and outgoing spam filtering and free 30 day backups.
------------------------------------------------------------
greetings
Jan

I asked for advice: the person couldn't tell this after he has looked at the website ..
Also the payment options ( cost  money) can be simplified by only accepting Payal
As now the costs for a dedicated server..i ask too ?
Seems to be not a complicated site with only html pages and a forum page in .php for installing on a server

But maintance and expansion of the website is probably not done personally by Joe , but with a website building specialist with Dreamweaver website build tool ?

[DrakeM]

Ought to be able to see how many people are currently visiting the site monthly and what percent are frequently visiting. If that number isn't well above 500 I would be surprised.

Charging a $5 year membership fee seems reasonable to me for what you get from this site. You figure you have 500 people join each year. That's $2500 of your $3000 cost covered.

Then you stop storing MP3 files on the site.

Let each of the current "Performers" store their own MP3 files at BOX.com (or another similar site). You can then put a link to their BOX account at the bottom of their Current page. You cut the expense of storing all those thousands of files and the cost of the band width used of people playing them each year.

What we have to offer in our "Charter/Supporting members" section is worth every bit of $5 to members who have to note read to play their keyboard ALONE. All of that material is stored off site at Google Drive and Box sites. No cost for storage or band width to the members is involved now.

If any of this material is not stored off site it needs to be moved there.

That is a couple ideas to balance your budget (the retired financial accountant in me coming out).

[dalekwars]

Hi Joe, I would like to add my voice to keeping this tutorial and forum going and like many others would be happy to contribute. I post songs quite often as you know but I also wander around the site at least a couple of times a week looking at comments on questions. I have also like many others taken advantage of many of the styles over the years. What many others say about community is so true...FB and You tube are great for doing stuff but lack the personal interaction. I have made many friends on here and that in a world which is so disconnected is so important....best wishes.  David